[SCzEngrgGroup]

Damn! Takes me about 30 seconds to setup all three axes by probing with a few $ worth of home-made probe hardware....

Regards,
Ray L.

[pickled]

I have a passive probe, the Haimer and various mechanical edge finders and indicators. I find that each one has their place in my world. It basically comes down to what I am working on. Sometimes a steel rule, a scribe and a post-it note are good enough, but if I am trying to work on a complex piece or design with highly defined tolerances I use the Haimer. Once calibrated it is dead on nuts and you can sweep surfaces pretty quickly receiving concentric analog feedback. Oh yeah and you can VERIFY that it is calibrated pretty quickly too which is nice. You also get Z touch off which is pretty slick. I do treat it and the passive probe like they are lab instruments though and don't throw them in the tray with my other tools. I sure like the probes for quick set ups of vises and table fixtures because it can be doing it's thing locating while I am grabbing fasteners, toe clamps...etc. As far as breakage goes keeping my jog shuttle controller un-gummy and chip fee is my biggest concern when it comes to failure modes that result in broken probe tips and haimer tips.

[WOTDesigns]

Hi Brian. I gather the Probes are not cheap...are you sure the Haimer is as cost effective as a Starrett edge finder etc? I have been thinking of getting a Haimer - because it takes me about 5 minutes to set up XYZ accurately with my Starretf mechanical edge finder - but if I need to keep replacing the probes I am not so sure. I suppose if the Haimer is really a lot quicker it may be worth it, but I have used the mechanical edge finder hundreds of times and it is accurate, and nothing breaks. I admit It is slow and takes quite a lot of concentration though.

Keen

"as cost effective"? Yes. I've set up thousands of parts saving 2-3 minutes per set up. Even at $10/hr it's cost effective. mind you those are over the course of 5 years.

If u like your starret stay with it. If time isn't an issue and you like using it no reason to change.

I am more concerned with speed and accuracy and the haimer saves me time and prevents mistakes. Not to mention I set up off bores a lot and that's impossible with an edge finder. The haimer saves me time. Worth every penny.

Brian
WOT Designs

[RCaffin]

Just bought a Vertex edge finder via eBay from 'onlyforever702'. $12.50 . 'Gold' bottom end, big 'bearing' surface, well greased, 2 spare springs included!
A bit different from my old one (which suffer a 'slight mishap'), but this Vertex one can easily detect 5 microns. Big very visible movement when it does.
Makes a $1k touch probe seem a risky investment.

Cheers

[kstrauss]

Just bought a Vertex edge finder via eBay from 'onlyforever702'. $12.50 . 'Gold' bottom end, big 'bearing' surface, well greased, 2 spare springs included!
A bit different from my old one (which suffer a 'slight mishap'), but this Vertex one can easily detect 5 microns. Big very visible movement when it does.
Makes a $1k touch probe seem a risky investment.

Cheers

Is it like CNC 10mm Non Magnetic Titanium Mechanical Edge Finder Fr Milling Lathe Engraving | eBay ?

[mountaindew]

Maybe before you break your first tip... Mine would be wrong if I start at zero... Then again... I may have broken a few tips in the last 5 years... Attachment 264810

Brian
WOT Designs

wow!
Probe tip still holds record for most expensive tool I have broke yet!
I choked on 1 at 60$ and ordered a couple extra in case of another operator error. From my count I see 10 at 60$ , ouch.
I banned phone use in shop after I broke my 1st tip , guessing this is only temporary fix and I will be breaking more from what I see in this picture.
md

[WOTDesigns]

wow!
Probe tip still holds record for most expensive tool I have broke yet!
I choked on 1 at 60$ and ordered a couple extra in case of another operator error. From my count I see 10 at 60$ , ouch.
I banned phone use in shop after I broke my 1st tip , guessing this is only temporary fix and I will be breaking more from what I see in this picture.
md

The vast majority of those were broken late at night after working my normal 10 hour day job then machining till midnight and working 7 days a week. My average work week was over 100 hours and I definitely suffered (as did my tools) from the lack of rest.

Damn shuttle wheel just likes braking them I suppose... Or I do. I've broken three on the renishaw on the HAAS since April and those run $100 each. One of those wasn't my fault but the other to were making a fast movement with the wrong axis selected. Woops. Ish happens.

Brian
WOT Designs

[Steve Seebold]

I have learned it's easy to prevent tip breakage.

1. ALWAYS watch the dial when you're moving the machine. Make sure your machine is moving in the right direction to prevent tip breakage.

2. NEVER make a rapid move when the tip is on the part.

3. NEVER try to set up a part when you're tired.

4. NEVER be talking on the phone when you're using the probe.

[WOTDesigns]

I have learned it's easy to prevent tip breakage.

1. ALWAYS watch the dial when you're moving the machine. Make sure your machine is moving in the right direction to prevent tip breakage.

2. NEVER make a rapid move when the tip is on the part.

3. NEVER try to set up a part when you're tired.

4. NEVER be talking on the phone when you're using the probe.

#3 would mean that I never would have been able to buy my Tormach

Brian
WOT Designs

[Hirudin]

Damn! Takes me about 30 seconds to setup all three axes by probing with a few $ worth of home-made probe hardware....

Wow! 10 seconds per axis. THAT is a feat I'd like to see!

I am more concerned with speed and accuracy and the haimer saves me time and prevents mistakes. Not to mention I set up off bores a lot and that's impossible with an edge finder. The haimer saves me time. Worth every penny.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine any manual edge finder being better than a Haimer for finding edges and setting the Z. Well, unless you're the best machinist the world ever did see*. Then you could to it by eye alone; look at the tool, look at the part, BOOM! you've got your work offset. Three seconds, tops!

* hear about

[Don Clement]

Maybe before you break your first tip... Mine would be wrong if I start at zero... Then again... I may have broken a few tips in the last 5 years... Attachment 264810

Brian
WOT Designs

Haimer has quite a racket in replacement tips. Bodum has the same racket in the $20 replacement glass for their French press. I use a Starrett edge finder for Y&X axis, a Starrett dial indicator for Z...takes about 60 seconds with no expensive tips to replace. In addition the Starrett dial indicator tool is used with an elephant foot to quickly find Z axis datum with tooling balls and ground rods which takes way less time than a Haimer with a spherical tip.

Don

[Hirudin]

60 seconds, including tool change? I'd like to see that too. I think we might need to get Guinness down here.

Haimer might not be the cheapest, I think we'll all grant that, but for speed and accuracy I'd bet the Haimer would beat out any other manual edge finding and Z setting method out there for all but the fastest or most reckless machinists.

Let's try to stay real here. It's NOT going to shave hours off your daily machining time (nobody is claiming it will) but it IS faster. How much is a couple minutes saved every time you set your work offset worth to you? How much is ensuring you don't forget to account for the tip diameter worth to you? If it's not worth $500 or so, I suggest you don't get one.

[popspipes]

I use a harbor freight indicator to set the Z, breaking it costs about 15 bucks for a new one. I am on the third one of these
I use a coaxial indicator to set xy from a hole in the part or fixture.I have ruined 2 of these so far.

Z coasting down was a problem also chips in the jog shuttle etc. I have my eye on a used blake co-ax now, and a decent indicator for close tolerance stuff.

Those cheap indicators ease the pain a bit when one gets crunched, they may not be as accurate but my parts dont require aircraft tolerances.

[WOTDesigns]

60 seconds, including tool change? I'd like to see that too. I think we might need to get Guinness down here.

Haimer might not be the cheapest, I think we'll all grant that, but for speed and accuracy I'd bet the Haimer would beat out any other manual edge finding and Z setting method out there for all but the fastest or most reckless machinists.

Let's try to stay real here. It's NOT going to shave hours off your daily machining time (nobody is claiming it will) but it IS faster. How much is a couple minutes saved every time you set your work offset worth to you? How much is ensuring you don't forget to account for the tip diameter worth to you? If it's not worth $500 or so, I suggest you don't get one.

Exactly my experience

Brian
WOT Designs

[pickled]

Those cheap indicators ease the pain a bit when one gets crunched, they may not be as accurate but my parts dont require aircraft tolerances.

Exactly! It is all about what you are making and who the end customer is. Again cheap indicators, post it notes, machinist rule etc. can be good enough if it meets your requirements. I just do what I need to do to keep me optimally productive and hit what tolerances that I need to hit for any given set-up. The whole "what's best?" question never is a black and white issue. If it is then you have either not been doing this for very long OR have been doing it for tooooooo long and have become the dreaded curmudgeon LOL. Good stuff.

[Don Clement]

60 seconds, including tool change? I'd like to see that too. I think we might need to get Guinness down here.

Haimer might not be the cheapest, I think we'll all grant that, but for speed and accuracy I'd bet the Haimer would beat out any other manual edge finding and Z setting method out there for all but the fastest or most reckless machinists.

Let's try to stay real here. It's NOT going to shave hours off your daily machining time (nobody is claiming it will) but it IS faster. How much is a couple minutes saved every time you set your work offset worth to you? How much is ensuring you don't forget to account for the tip diameter worth to you? If it's not worth $500 or so, I suggest you don't get one.

Faster really when used to find the edge of a ground rod or tooling ball? I'll bet my dial indicator and edge finder are faster when finding datums from a tooling ball or ground rod. But then if all is parallel with the X,Y, or Z axis the $500 + $$ broken tips may just be faster. If I wanted faster I would invest the $500+ in a stepper upgrade for my series I Tormach.

Don

[MichaelHenry]

wow!
Probe tip still holds record for most expensive tool I have broke yet!
I choked on 1 at 60$ and ordered a couple extra in case of another operator error. From my count I see 10 at 60$ , ouch.
I banned phone use in shop after I broke my 1st tip , guessing this is only temporary fix and I will be breaking more from what I see in this picture.
md

The short probes are only $42 from Tormach and those have worked out pretty well for me. It took about 5 broken tips before I learned what to watch out for while using the Haimer. No. 1 for me is making sure I've selected the right axis before doing a high speed move.

For you folks that have them do yourselves a favor and read the manual and apply the info therein toward setting it up properly. The info therein is a lot more reliable than most of what you read in on-line forums.

Mike

Mike

[Hirudin]

Faster really when used to find the edge of a ground rod or tooling ball? I'll bet my dial indicator and edge finder are faster when finding datums from a tooling ball or ground rod. But then if all is parallel with the X,Y, or Z axis the $500 + $$ broken tips may just be faster. If I wanted faster I would invest the $500+ in a stepper upgrade for my series I Tormach.

Don

Yeah I bet you're right there. The Haimer would be much more tedious to use on a rod.

[bhurts]

My opinions only! Finding the ctr of a hole or bore is not setting anything other then a ctr point. It tells you nothing about the bore ctr in relation to the rest of the part in regards to being parallel or perpendicular. I can't in my mind see how the haimer would tell you a part is parallel to the z axis movement on a part over a inch or 2 long. In my mind if you need a highly accurate setup there is no substitute to the dti. It can insure almost all callouts are in range. As for a edge finder I use a electronic one. When you touch the edge it lights up. Other then that it's treated the same as a mechanical edge finder.

Ben

[WOTDesigns]

My opinions only! Finding the ctr of a hole or bore is not setting anything other then a ctr point. It tells you nothing about the bore ctr in relation to the rest of the part in regards to being parallel or perpendicular. I can't in my mind see how the haimer would tell you a part is parallel to the z axis movement on a part over a inch or 2 long. In my mind if you need a highly accurate setup there is no substitute to the dti. It can insure almost all callouts are in range. As for a edge finder I use a electronic one. When you touch the edge it lights up. Other then that it's treated the same as a mechanical edge finder.

Ben

The haimer isn't a replacement for a dti. I don't use it to check parallel, that's what dti is for. Most of my fixtures have 2x 1/4" pins spaced 8 or 16 inches apart that fit into hardened drill bushings in my table on the x3 and tormach or just pushed up against a t slot on the HAAS. Those handle the fixture being parallel. All of my fixtures have a hole reamed at 0-0 and I just center on the hole to set zero.

As for finding the center of a tooling ball I'm not sure where the perceived difficulty lies. Just eyeball center and touch one side then the opposite AT THE SAME HEIGHT without moving the other axis and divide by two, move to zero Then do the other axis. If u really want accuracy repeat the first axis again. Now you have x&y so go to zero and touch Z. Pretty darn simple.

Finding center of a rod is just as easy. Running the haimer in the Y while touching the top will give you the highest point plain as day.

Brian
WOT Designs