[ericks]

Anyone can look up what I posted, just grab a copy of the NEC and find the sections I posted above. Quote the section of NEC Code your reading about approved cables, you do have a copy don't you?

So what big company do you work for Mac? They must not have any business if your posting on CNC Zone all the time? Hope you don't lose your job when they find out.

Very good question!!

[mactec54]

Anyone can look up what I posted, just grab a copy of the NEC and find the sections I posted above. Quote the section of NEC Code your reading about approved cables, you do have a copy don't you?

So what big company do you work for Mac? They must not have any business if your posting on CNC Zone all the time? Hope you don't lose your job when they find out.

I own the company, don't work for anyone, I have 2 manufacturing company's that I own, plus much more, I come here just to have fun and help those that need it which you are not doing

I will put up money, lets say $1000 to start with, if you want to go more be my guest, that I'm correct that the Cable spec's CF6-15-04 will pass any NEC inspection you want to through at it for this spindle install

[wmgeorge]

I own the company, don't work for anyone, I have 2 manufacturing company's that I own, plus much more, I come here just to have fun and help those that need it which you are not doing

I will put up money, lets say $1000 to start with, if you want to go more be my guest, that I'm correct that the Cable spec's CF6-15-04 will pass any NEC inspection you want to through at it for this spindle install

You own two companies?? And you Export all over the world?? Yet you can not quote the Section of the NEC that covers that Approval?

I help people here all the time to correct the mistakes you post. You do have an extensive DB on those Chinese VFD's and I will give you that.

I guess I am done arguing with you, I have my businesses to run, not waste time with you.

[mactec54]

You own two companies?? And you Export all over the world?? Yet you can not quote the Section of the NEC that covers that Approval?

I help people here all the time to correct the mistakes you post. You do have an extensive DB on those Chinese VFD's and I will give you that.

I guess I am done arguing with you, I have my businesses to run, not waste time with you.

You are full of it, I would hope that nobody would listen to what you post as they would be in trouble if they did you are behind the 8 Ball

I can quote any NEC Regulations you want I just don't want to make you look so bad with your BS

NEC Regulations as I posted 18A for 16AWG @ 90c

[wmgeorge]

You are full of it, I would hope that nobody would listen to what you post as they would be in trouble if they did you are behind the 8 Ball

I can quote any NEC Regulations you want I just don't want to make you look so bad with your BS

NEC Regulations as I posted 18A for 16AWG @ 90c

But those cables you posted are Not rated for 90 DegC. and you neglected to post the rest of the chart showing the ** see Article 240.4(D) for conductor over current protection. This is old news.

Plus if your ambient (room) temperature is above 30 DegC or 86 DegF there are correction factors for that also, again old news. Covered in Article 310.15(B)(2) and the Tables published within. Look it up.

[ericks]

You own two companies?? And you Export all over the world?? Yet you can not quote the Section of the NEC that covers that Approval?

I help people here all the time to correct the mistakes you post. You do have an extensive DB on those Chinese VFD's and I will give you that.

I guess I am done arguing with you, I have my businesses to run, not waste time with you.

Having worked with those Chinese drives and knowing the few settings for basic applications is really not an accomplishment. I do not view him as any sort of expert.....you can fool some people some days but not everyone all the time

[wmgeorge]

Having worked with those Chinese drives and knowing the few settings for basic applications is really not an accomplishment. I do not view him as any sort of expert.....you can fool some people some days but not everyone all the time

No he really does a good job helping people with VFD problems. He knows that pretty well.

[ericks]

No he really does a good job helping people with VFD problems. He knows that pretty well.

Yes he spends lots of time googling....

[CNC-Pal]

Yes he spends lots of time googling....

Just so you know... "mactec54" has helped me out a lot and I'm very grateful for that.
I also greatly appreciate the help I got from "wmgeorge".

I'm sure I won't be blowing up anything if I use their recommendations or advise (even when they disagree on some things).

Why don't you offer useful advise like they do, instead of the worthless comments your making.
Myself and others could probably learn from you too.

I Google a lot, this is how I found CNCZone

Is there something wrong with Googling what you don't know?

[ericks]

Just so you know... "mactec54" has helped me out a lot and I'm very grateful for that.
I also greatly appreciate the help I got from "wmgeorge".

I'm sure I won't be blowing up anything if I use their recommendations or advise (even when they disagree on some things).

Why don't you offer useful advise like they do, instead of the worthless comments your making.
Myself and others could probably learn from you too.

I Google a lot, this is how I found CNCZone

Is there something wrong with Googling what you don't know?

I use google myself..... we all allowed our opinion
I was only reacting to him yet again having another go at someone.

[wmgeorge]

In case someone is following this Thread the spec's that were quoted above are here > https://cdn.automationdirect.com/sta...lcblcf6ctl.pdf

Notice the cable is rated at 70 Deg C not 90 so the amp rating for the cable as stated above is Not correct. The cable is rated as a control cable not motor conductor. Article 430.22 (G) and on in the NEC spec's minimun wire size for motors. Conductors for Small Motors "shall not be smaller than #14 AWG" there are exceptions for certain motors to allow #18 and #16 for motors that draw less than 8 amps or less in certain conditions when property protected by an approved over current device. This has been in the Code for years.

[davida1234]

So, we MUST use 14ga cable for the 2.2kW spindle as it draws +/- 10 Amps? My spindle cable is Igus 16 ga based on all the info I found on the internet.

[mactec54]

Yes he spends lots of time googling....

You can't find what I post on Google unless it is what I have already posted, you are another one that can't read, not surprised though, you keep repeating the same thing I Don't use Google it is not on my computer

The Snips I post I have had for many years which I have stored in folders, on an external drive, so never have to go and search for anything

So Don't Spend Any Time On Google (wedge)

Not that there is anything wrong with Google, I Just don't have it

[mactec54]

So, we MUST use 14ga cable for the 2.2kW spindle as it draws +/- 10 Amps? My spindle cable is Igus 16 ga based on all the info I found on the internet.

No you should be using the cable I spec CF6-15-04 which has a 18A rating, 14AWG will not fit in the Plugs they use on the spindles

[wmgeorge]

So, we MUST use 14ga cable for the 2.2kW spindle as it draws +/- 10 Amps? My spindle cable is Igus 16 ga based on all the info I found on the internet.

Well if it was going to be inspected or sold to an end user it would need to be. But 10 amps is within the range of what #16 wire will normally carry. My spindle was rated at 8.5 amps and I used #14 because I was aware of the requirements.. The information I posted above is from the cable mfg website in PDF form. It does not meet Code in a lot of cases. They leave that up to the end user is suppose to hire a licensed electrician or have on on staff. The approvals they list have nothing to do with ampere ratings. Added, I had no issues soldering the #14 wire?

What I posted above and the picture is right from the current NEC Code book I own.

[wmgeorge]

That is so funny what you are trying to do, this snip does not refer to this installation what's so ever nice try

I will let the folks on here judge on the merits of who is posting and what.

Your telling people and I posted the PDF link the cable your recommending it rated for 18 amps for #16 AWG wire. Its not. The "snip" you posted is for 90C wire, and folks that means the wire insulation temperature rating is 90C which is a 194 F, hot enough to burn your hand when carrying 18 amps!! Do you want that on your machine?

That means that entire cable you posted has to be rated for 90C or 194F which it is not!! It is only rated for 70C. People can read and decide for themselves who is correct? I do not need to Google. Your "snips" came off your computer screen did they not? I posted a picture from the Code book I have at my desk I use it all the time. Notice I do not post insults or fabricate false statements to make my case.

[mactec54]

I will let the folks on here judge on the merits of who is posting and what.

Your telling people and I posted the PDF link the cable your recommending it rated for 18 amps for #16 AWG wire. Its not. The "snip" you posted is for 90C wire, and folks that means the wire insulation temperature rating is 90C which is a 194 F, hot enough to burn your hand when carrying 18 amps!! Do you want that on your machine?

That means that entire cable you posted has to be rated for 90C or 194F which it is not!! It is only rated for 70C. People can read and decide for themselves who is correct? I do not need to Google. Your "snips" came off your computer screen did they not? I posted a picture from the Code book I have at my desk I use it all the time.

No that is not what the rating temperature is of the cable I provided spec's for, that's what is in the NEC code, for that cable and that is what they rate that size cable up to, you need to understand what they are saying in there regulations, don't make them up yourself

And yes I have a folder just for NEC regulations, so have lots of different snips I can post

[wmgeorge]

I will let the folks read the PDF link I posted above, and see its rated for only 70C. No rating for amps, and the NEC Code prohibits as I posted anything smaller than #14 AWG for motor conductors, some exceptions as I noted. Your posting above with the Insults included does not change anything I posted. People can decide for themselves who is the professional in the room.

BTW the second image above is a DIN rating, as European wiring standard, and people need to know has nothing to do with USA NEC ratings.

I think I have posted enough corrections and facts on this Thread to educate the over 2,400 views and hundreds of people following that just posting something on the Internet without current and relevant documentation and having others rely on that for wiring is dangerous to the folks wiring machines, homes or otherwise. Thanks to the wonders of the internet anyone can post and be an expert.

Ask for the documentation and its source, then make your judgement.

[CNC-Pal]

I will let the folks read the PDF link I posted above, and see its rated for only 70C. No rating for amps, and the NEC Code prohibits as I posted anything smaller than #14 AWG for motor conductors, some exceptions as I noted. Your posting above with the Insults included does not change anything I posted. People can decide for themselves who is the professional in the room.

BTW the second image above is a DIN rating, as European wiring standard, and people need to know has nothing to do with USA NEC ratings.

I think I have posted enough corrections and facts on this Thread to educate the over 2,400 views and hundreds of people following that just posting something on the Internet without current and relevant documentation and having others rely on that for wiring is dangerous to the folks wiring machines, homes or otherwise. Thanks to the wonders of the internet anyone can post and be an expert.

Ask for the documentation and its source, then make your judgement.

I was always under the impression that the standard wire gages for NA homes was the same for motor applications.

As you initially posted:

16 = 10 amps
14 = 15 amps
12 = 20 amps
etc...

The above is what I always understood before your post which is why I was questioning if the 16 gage was good enough for the 2.2kw motor in my earlier post.

I was surprised to find out that there are 16 gage wires that can handle 24 amps and can legally be used to wire things like motors!
I actually thought that 24 amps would turn a 16 gage wire into a heating element.

Is that 16 gage 24 amp wire that mactec54 spoke of made of copper?
Is the insulation the only reason it can tolerate such a high amp rating?
I can't think of a reason to wire something that allows a wire to get hot, so what would be a good application for it?
Doesn't the length of it also play a role in it's rating as well?

I would appreciate an explanation. I'm clearly NOT an electrician and I'm just trying to learn and understand.

[wmgeorge]

The #16=10, #14=15 and #12=20 amps and so on is a safe and common sense guide line, for wiring anything. By posting those other numbers people get confused and that is what I was trying to clear up. According to the Code minimum wire size for motors is #14 AWG, there are exceptions for motors rated under 8.5 amps. There are exceptions for welders also. Please do not wire anything with #16 and try to put 24 amps thru it!!. The temperature rating of the wire insulation is what determines the amp capacity. Please get a wiring book that teaches you the correct way to wire. Home Depot used to carry a pretty good one and so did Sears years ago. Do not trust anything you find on the internet about wiring.

Yes if you ran 24 amps thru a #16 wire it would get hot or at least very, very warm. Then you need to be concerned about I Square R losses.