[SPEEDRE]

This is often the issue. It's not so much the mechanical issues that stymie a guy but the electrical issues. At least for me. I finished wiring and adding electrical things and went for a test. I may have killed my semi expensive controls. Should I have had everything plugged in, computer, steppers spindle motor, e stop and, all the various necessary power supplies before turning on the power?
Well, I did not! It did not go up in smoke but neither did it do anything at all. Comments, did I KILL it ????

[IN-WondeR]

Depends on the way everything was wired up. What is dead???

Do you have some pics of your control box??

[Al_The_Man]

You should have a schematic of the wiring carried out, and in the event that part or all does not work, then methodical trouble shooting is the answer, using your schematic.
You would norrmally power up progressively and bring everything on line a section at a time so that any error should be evident.
Do you have a suitable meter in order to do this?
Al.

[wizard]

Basic electrical troubleshooting generally requires a good multimeter. However there are things you can do to help with diagnostics.

These suggestions below don't apply to any one I/O board but can be helpful.

1. If you don't have a meter a way to trace voltages can be handy. An extremely simple approache here would be an LED and a current limiting resistor. This can be effective determining logic states at I/O points capable of supplying the required currents. This is important to understand because many points in the circuit WILL NOT BE CAPABLE OF SUPPLYING CURRENT FOR AN LED!

2. A more versatile approach would be to buy or rig up a logic probe, that doesn't load the circuits heavily. In either case you want to be able to determine the state of an I/O (high or low).

3. In tech school there is always a strong emphasis on CVI, that Close Visual Inspection. This should almost always be job number one, that is the first thing you attempt for any machine diagnostic problem. In this case you want to verify that everything is indeed wired as you intended. You want to verify the state of any diagnostic LEDs, verify that the power supply is wired up correctly, that you are corrected to the correct terminals on switches, PCB and so forth. This can done tedious but it helps to have followed good wiring practices in the first place.

4. It is highly recommended to have followed good wiring practices as this makes diagnostics work much easier. This includes using accepted color codes for wiring, cable and wire labeling and having a good document to follow. Though it might not be the work you want to focus on drawing a electrical schematic is highly recommended even if you have followed hook up suggestions found else where? Why? Because most machines have some uniqueness to them and you need to implement a rational wire numbering plan.

5. The thing with something like this is that if the board is. Completely dead or inoperative you can't even use the controling software to help you debug the problem. Your best bet is to do fault isolation which implies removing everything from the I/O board you can with your first goal being to establish communications with the board. You can further verify communications by hooking up a pushbutton to an I/O point that the controlling software always monitors. This gets into the specifics of your I/O board and software but axis limits might be a good choice here. The idea is to verify communications with a minimal or zero I/O connected except for one switch that is easily verified to be connected properly. Depending upon the board though there may be an enable, E-Srop or other function that needs to npbe working for the control software to properly report I/O.

6. If you I fact establish communications then the next thing to do is to incrementally hook up stuff, verifying that it is going to the right place. The E-Stop circuit is a good place to start. Followed by any enable and axis limits. The idea here is to isolate what gets hooked up that causes your dead condition. It really is helpful to have an ohmmeter, continuity checker or other device to verify that these imputs change states as expected BEFORE HOOING THEM UP to the I/O board. In other words for limit switches, pushbuttons & etc. that the switches actually turn on and off as expected. On a larger machine a continuity detector, with a loud bell or buzzer, can be useful for finding about where a cable faults in a drag chain. On small machines you can easily make use of a multimeter or even a powered up LED. The idea in this case is to simply verify that those switches and the like work properly. Unfortunately this doesn't work so well with three wire prox type devices as they need to be powered up to work.

7. You can continue on from here with hooking up the drives and the like. I would suspect that if the board can power up at all you will have seen it operating already. If not they you either have a board or software problem. Don't dismiss software here as you need to be able to "see" the I/O board.

This is often the issue. It's not so much the mechanical issues that stymie a guy but the electrical issues. At least for me. I finished wiring and adding electrical things and went for a test. I may have killed my semi expensive controls. Should I have had everything plugged in, computer, steppers spindle motor, e stop and, all the various necessary power supplies before turning on the power?
Well, I did not! It did not go up in smoke but neither did it do anything at all. Comments, did I KILL it ????

[SPEEDRE]

Most of what you suggest wizard is somewhat confusing. I am not too savvy about electrical or electronic stuff. Testing for more than continuity is beyond my realm of understanding. One may say, " what do you think you're doing building a c.n.c. machine". Aside from that, I have tested some of the individual system connections and made some corrections and verified that they work. My problem now is all about getting Mach 3 to control my spindle. It is a Chinese 300W VDC variable speed unit with its very own power supply and speed knob. It runs quiet and nicely balanced. But, I want it to as automatic as I can possibly make it, within my limited skills. This schematic shows how it was wired before any change will be made

[Al_The_Man]

Unfortunately I have found for the most part, most DIY CNC setups do not follow accepted industry practices when wiring, there is a certain format or method based on both NEC and NFPA79 recommendations. This would include proper fusing etc.
This is further aggravated by the fact that most DIY systems are a combination of equipment from several sources.
In the case of the PDF, there is no proper hardwired E-Stop, this would normally shut down power to all motorized are mechanically moving devices.
Also bad practices are often the cause of spurious noise and intermittent shut downs etc.

My 2¢
Al.

[wizard]

Unfortunately I have found for the most part, most DIY CNC setups do not follow accepted industry practices when wiring, there is a certain format or method based on both NEC and NFPA79 recommendations.

This is certainly true and frankly I understand both sides of the fence. building your own machine can really crimp a budget, however a little extra time and money goes a long ways to making for a robust machine that is easy to service. Even money isn't a huge issue because a book of wire labeling numbers can be had fairly cheap.

This would include proper fusing etc.
This is further aggravated by the fact that most DIY systems are a combination of equipment from several sources.
In the case of the PDF, there is no proper hardwired E-Stop,

I see a lot of DIY systems with no e-Stop It really isn't a good idea unless you have a main power switch that is as easy to operate. It is the one place where buying quality components is worthwhile in my opinion because an E-Stop circuit not working can be a very bad thing.

this would normally shut down power to all motorized are mechanically moving devices.
Also bad practices are often the cause of spurious noise and intermittent shut downs etc.

My 2¢
Al.

At best we can only encourage good practices. It isn't easy to debug over the net either, often find it frustrating.

[Al_The_Man]

Also aggravated by the fact that many attempting DIY CNC are self admitted deficit in the area of electrics/electronics and the one place they usually go to is the web where often the ones giving advice are non professionals and have picked up and relay bad practices themselves, this is also aggravated by the fact that many of the individual component suppliers only give advice directly related to their units, neglecting the to give a Proper complete picture.
Al.

[SPEEDRE]

My e stop symbol is false. I don't know the proper symbol for a normally closed e stop switch. My bad, I'm sorry for the confusion.

[Al_The_Man]

It wasn't so much the symbol as what/how it controlled the power devices, it should be a hard wired string all on its own with a relay etc at the end of the string that would drop out all AC power to the different motorized devices and also advise Mach a E-Stop had taken place.
Al.

[pippin88]

I've found it very difficult to actually find an estop switch rated for adequate amps to actually be installed as a cut off for all power. Can't seem to find one rated for more than 3 amps at 240v

[Al_The_Man]

You don't typically use the E-stop P.B. itself, as I outlined, it is a AND'ed or serial string of all the things you want to cause the E-Stop, at the end of the string is a few Ma relay that cuts off all AC powered devices, a contact can be input to Mach to indicate the stop.
Al.

[plcamp]

I've found it very difficult to actually find an estop switch rated for adequate amps to actually be installed as a cut off for all power. Can't seem to find one rated for more than 3 amps at 240v

Try granger.com but be prepared these are industrial rated and you will pay accordingly, but a worthwhile investment when compared to an injury.

[plcamp]

You don't typically use the E-stop P.B. itself, as I outlined, it is a AND'ed or serial string of all the things you want to cause the E-Stop, at the end of the string is a few Ma relay that cuts off all AC powered devices, a contact can be input to Mach to indicate the stop.
Al.

This is a good LOTO practice LOTO=Lock Out Tag Out You really need to disable all powered motions including any that may be hydraulic or pneumatic. Remember 'Safety' always comes first even in our home workshops.

[Al_The_Man]

There have been quite a few past examples where proper E-stop implementation has not been wired, where a spindle will start when powering up the PC and Mach is in the process of loading...:nono:

Al.

[G59]

In most industrial controls, the E-stop button works on low signal voltage to a power relay. Why would you bring 120-240 volts near the operators hand? If that is the case, it is of poor design.

[Al_The_Man]

120VAC was used up to around the late 70's when 120vac relay logic was common in industrial control, in the late 60's, Dick Morley invented the PLC and the practice of using 24vdc for the control string became more the norm.
The simple E-stop string with the control relay at the end of the string has been around for a long time, but, especially in Europe, this has now been replaced by the Safety Relay.
It may become mandatory in N.A. in the near future.
https://www.pilz.com/en-CA/eshop/A00...tection-relays
Al.

[wizard]

120VAC was used up to around the late 70's when 120vac relay logic was common in industrial control, in the late 60's, Dick Morley invented the PLC and the practice of using 24vdc for the control string became more the norm.
The simple E-stop string with the control relay at the end of the string has been around for a long time, but, especially in Europe, this has now been replaced by the Safety Relay.
It may become mandatory in N.A. in the near future.
https://www.pilz.com/en-CA/eshop/A00...tection-relays
Al.

Those safety relays are perhaps the most unreliable devices I've seen in an electrical control panel. Then you have engineers that wire them up just as you would a normal relay which makes me wonder why go to the expense of a safety relay?

[wizard]

I've found it very difficult to actually find an estop switch rated for adequate amps to actually be installed as a cut off for all power. Can't seem to find one rated for more than 3 amps at 240v

E-Stop buttons are not designed to switch power for the most part. Rather they are designed to switch a power relay. So in that regard the E-Stop contact block has to be able to switch the current the relay will draw.

These day there are a number of vendors that you can go to online. Automation Direct, Newark, DigiKey, even MSC come to mind, but there are a lot more to choose from.

Interestingly if you count on switch size as an indication of durability you may be disappointed. At work we had an older woman near retirement break a large German made E-Stop with little effort. This was on an imported machine and I was actually surprised at the poor quality of the switches.

On a related note most standards require that releasing the E-Stop does NOT reset the E-Stop condition. That is a separate pushbutton is required to latch in the E-Stop relay.

[Al_The_Man]

Those safety relays are perhaps the most unreliable devices I've seen in an electrical control panel.

Maybe they were a particular make?
I have never really seen a problem with them, I also come in contact with many machines from Europe that come with them fitted.
Maybe some are not the correct ones spec'd in if they were wired up wrong, there are all kind of options they come with, for example a controlled shut down of a spindle or motor where shutting down all the power at once is not good is one example.
The ones implemented by some that irk me is when the controller is also shut down!
Al.