[Chughes0204]

Upgrading to Haas.

Send me a pm if interested.

Tormach PCNC1100 Series 3

[WOTDesigns]

Welcome to the club neighbor! What did/are you getting?

[Chughes0204]

Welcome to the club neighbor! What did/are you getting?

I am stuck between a mini mill and a VF1. Its going in my garage so I am trying to figure out if the VF1 will fit under the 84" opening and the power requirements.

What do you have and where do you keep it?

[WOTDesigns]

I bought a new TM2P and leased a 2,000 sq/ft warehouse with 3 phase. Only needed the 3 phase because I added HP Coolant... and nearly everything else. $58.5K out the door.

Wouldn't change a thing except for adding HSM option on up front. DO NOT look at it as HSM. Think of it as "AOTASLM" (anything other than a straight line machining) because Haas chokes machines ability to a trickle to force you to buy it unless you are manually coding everything. Definitely DO NOT buy the pendant. Useless turd of a waste of money. The Tormach jog shuttle is MUCH easier and faster, but setting everything up from the control panel is pretty damn easy... ESPECIALLY if you are able to get the WIPS probe. It is AMAZING and damn near free if you consider the macro ability (another absolute requirement for me), coordinate shifting and things they throw in free with it. I can change collets, load tools onto machine and touch off 10 tools in about 5 minutes. I program touch off routines directly into some of my work like cutting grooves in finished racing calipers, 2 pots per side, 2 sides per set, 1,200 sets... yeah... nothing to reference off except the bore itself. Also if you somehow (and it would take skill) manage to destroy the probe you just send it to Renishaw with $1500 and they give you a NEW one. That sold me.

Pass on the programming option crap. They gave it to me free while setting up the wips and it is complete junk. I can type in faster than it can trick me into breaking tools. Some of the operations wont let you decide where the datum is and they DONT all match. Useless as far as I can tell.

Chip Auger (wont ever be without)
HP Coolant (same)
I upgraded to 20 station turret. Worth every penny. 8 tools plus probe live in their machine. 75% of what I machine I only have to load 3 tools though I program for 6 to 10 because the others live in the machine already.
UG memory is a waste since you can run programs directly from the USB
Light is a waste because 100w eq LED lights are $50 iirc I have two in my Haas

I'm probably forgetting more options that I listed, but those are the kickers. The probe is the best thing since the light bulb. Touching tools is crazy fast and you can program it to test the tool for breakage every X amount of time, or even just have it change to the next tool every X amount of time which I do for my production runs. Every 1,500 minutes of cut time it changes to the next tool in that tool group and I load 4 of those tools. It runs lights out 24/hrs a day on those.

One last thing to consider and this is a big one: Vise space/table size. The 10" table SUCKS. Can't use the Orange Vise 20"er and the 17"er is just too small of opening for the $. I have 6 double station 4" vises I use for production as well, but I REALLY wish I could run the big 6"/20" double for a LOT of other parts. Mind you they fit within my 16" travel +3" extra space and rear and 8" front, but thats just a LOT of vise to leave hanging off the table for me.

All in all... pulling the garage door off, cutting a hole, repairing the hole, painting the front of the whole garage face and reinstalling the door is NOTHING compared to getting a machine that will do better. I just spent a full week and $600 in labor to move 1/2 the stuff in my shop to move in a Miyano lathe because I wanted it where I wanted it. It's there now. Now if only I can get the dang thing to work I would be in hog heaven.

[Steve Seebold]

I am stuck between a mini mill and a VF1. Its going in my garage so I am trying to figure out if the VF1 will fit under the 84" opening and the power requirements.

What do you have and where do you keep it?

I wouldn't do the mini mill. It's just too small and you probably don't have the power required to run a VF1 or VF2.

I would do what Brian did and buy a TM2P. The tool room machines run on either single or 3 phase power. I had a TM1 till about 8 years ago when I had a heart attack in my shop. I really wish I still had it.

I had rigid tap, 10 station ATC and 5C 4th axis. I really liked that machine. Given the chance to get another one, I would be on it like white on rice.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Tormach, but the Haas was a way better machine.

[CadRhino]

Thanks for that breakdown. I have been missing your posts. Not to hijack this thread, but, since I use the 4th axis so much for my work, how much more would that add and is the tm2p the best haas for that? Also, have you been able to trouble shoot problems and do maintenance yourself or do you have to have a technician do everything?
Thanks
Nathan

I bought a new TM2P and leased a 2,000 sq/ft warehouse with 3 phase. Only needed the 3 phase because I added HP Coolant... and nearly everything else. $58.5K out the door.

Wouldn't change a thing except for adding HSM option on up front. DO NOT look at it as HSM. Think of it as "AOTASLM" (anything other than a straight line machining) because Haas chokes machines ability to a trickle to force you to buy it unless you are manually coding everything. Definitely DO NOT buy the pendant. Useless turd of a waste of money. The Tormach jog shuttle is MUCH easier and faster, but setting everything up from the control panel is pretty damn easy... ESPECIALLY if you are able to get the WIPS probe. It is AMAZING and damn near free if you consider the macro ability (another absolute requirement for me), coordinate shifting and things they throw in free with it. I can change collets, load tools onto machine and touch off 10 tools in about 5 minutes. I program touch off routines directly into some of my work like cutting grooves in finished racing calipers, 2 pots per side, 2 sides per set, 1,200 sets... yeah... nothing to reference off except the bore itself. Also if you somehow (and it would take skill) manage to destroy the probe you just send it to Renishaw with $1500 and they give you a NEW one. That sold me.

Pass on the programming option crap. They gave it to me free while setting up the wips and it is complete junk. I can type in faster than it can trick me into breaking tools. Some of the operations wont let you decide where the datum is and they DONT all match. Useless as far as I can tell.

Chip Auger (wont ever be without)
HP Coolant (same)
I upgraded to 20 station turret. Worth every penny. 8 tools plus probe live in their machine. 75% of what I machine I only have to load 3 tools though I program for 6 to 10 because the others live in the machine already.
UG memory is a waste since you can run programs directly from the USB
Light is a waste because 100w eq LED lights are $50 iirc I have two in my Haas

I'm probably forgetting more options that I listed, but those are the kickers. The probe is the best thing since the light bulb. Touching tools is crazy fast and you can program it to test the tool for breakage every X amount of time, or even just have it change to the next tool every X amount of time which I do for my production runs. Every 1,500 minutes of cut time it changes to the next tool in that tool group and I load 4 of those tools. It runs lights out 24/hrs a day on those.

One last thing to consider and this is a big one: Vise space/table size. The 10" table SUCKS. Can't use the Orange Vise 20"er and the 17"er is just too small of opening for the $. I have 6 double station 4" vises I use for production as well, but I REALLY wish I could run the big 6"/20" double for a LOT of other parts. Mind you they fit within my 16" travel +3" extra space and rear and 8" front, but thats just a LOT of vise to leave hanging off the table for me.

All in all... pulling the garage door off, cutting a hole, repairing the hole, painting the front of the whole garage face and reinstalling the door is NOTHING compared to getting a machine that will do better. I just spent a full week and $600 in labor to move 1/2 the stuff in my shop to move in a Miyano lathe because I wanted it where I wanted it. It's there now. Now if only I can get the dang thing to work I would be in hog heaven.

[WOTDesigns]

10" table definitely isn't the BEST but plenty fit. I bought the 4th axis ready (tools you I forgot stuff) but not a 4th I see no reason to buy the 4th new. Been watching ebay. Hasn't had the bed yet, but would like to play with one before I have a deadline on a part.

Maintenance is easy. Haven't had any real problems at all to speak of, but most technicians are the same price regardless of brand. $100-$125/hr and some have$100 "travel fee"

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[CadRhino]

Thanks
Is it cheapest to buy a new machine straight from haas?

10" table definitely isn't the BEST but plenty fit. I bought the 4th axis ready (tools you I forgot stuff) but not a 4th I see no reason to buy the 4th new. Been watching ebay. Hasn't had the bed yet, but would like to play with one before I have a deadline on a part.

Maintenance is easy. Haven't had any real problems at all to speak of, but most technicians are the same price regardless of brand. $100-$125/hr and some have$100 "travel fee"

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[WOTDesigns]

Thanks
Is it cheapest to buy a new machine straight from haas?

vs what? You can only buy a new Haas from Haas factory outlets as far as I'm aware. Most major manufactures in almost all industries do not sell direct but rather through dealers.

[CadRhino]

I did not know that.
I thought I remember hearing another member say that haas has a big sale once a year.

vs what? You can only buy a new Haas from Haas factory outlets as far as I'm aware. Most major manufactures in almost all industries do not sell direct but rather through dealers.