[JohnToner]

I'm thinking about changing my cooling fluid from water soluble oil to regular oil. I've been using Rustlik w/o problems, no rancidity even after one year (I have an air supply bubbling through it 24/7). I'm just tired of having to wipe everything down at the end of the day, getting it all dry, then having to coat the table and vice with regular oil. I get very little time in the shop and the clean up takes a good portion of that time. Also, I sometimes have the vice mounted for extended periods and on removing it there will be a lot of surface rust to deal with.

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time. I know water soluble is cheaper but that's not an issue. My greatest concern is safety. I remember years ago running kerosene for some Al work. It worked great, beautiful surface finish, but produced a mist of kerosene that so much looked like a fuel-air bomb. This time I'm not planning on kero, but would be using cutting fluid formulated for the task. Am I worrying about a nonexistent problem?

Thanks

[Beezle]

I use that stuff Tormach sells, Premier 600, primarily 1:20 in a Fog Buster.

I only ever wipe off the vise day to day and leave everything else to dry. I have recently moved to using aluminum baking sheets on either side of the vise to collect the bulk of the chips and make cleaning up much easier, but before that I never had any problems. I have yet to see rust on fixtures or the table.

The baking sheets are standard 1/2 size. 18x13". They fit rather well on either side of the Tormach 5" vise.

But this could be because I use Boshield T9 on everything when I do clean. And lots of it.

[mike sr1]

I'm thinking about changing my cooling fluid from water soluble oil to regular oil. I've been using Rustlik w/o problems, no rancidity even after one year (I have an air supply bubbling through it 24/7). I'm just tired of having to wipe everything down at the end of the day, getting it all dry, then having to coat the table and vice with regular oil. I get very little time in the shop and the clean up takes a good portion of that time. Also, I sometimes have the vice mounted for extended periods and on removing it there will be a lot of surface rust to deal with.

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time. I know water soluble is cheaper but that's not an issue. My greatest concern is safety. I remember years ago running kerosene for some Al work. It worked great, beautiful surface finish, but produced a mist of kerosene that so much looked like a fuel-air bomb. This time I'm not planning on kero, but would be using cutting fluid formulated for the task. Am I worrying about a nonexistent problem?

Thanks

I have been thinking along the same lines John, I was thinking about Stoddard solvent - (no stink kerosene) with some sort of oil mixed with it, the only drawback i see is that it wont take the heat out as quickly as water based coolant, and would probably eat up the shower hose oil line to the flood system.

I dont like the staining or the rust either, and the rust under the vise. On my lathe I ran Ridgid cutting oil in the sump on it for 30 plus years and it worked fine, I used to cut it with Stoddard solvent to thin it out a bit. I ran 90 percent stainless steel though on it.

It would eliminate the tramp oil problem as it would all mix well, I dont know about evaporation being a problem though, at work we had a solvent tank parts washer and evaporation wasnt ever a problem with it that I can recall. I was going to run it thru the flood system so "misting" shouldnt be a problem.

Just thinking out loud here, glad to see someone considering the same alternative......

Our resident machinist at the plant would consider breaking your arm if you tried to put a water based coolant in his machines, he just didnt like it period, I guess because it was water based.

I do small text engraving with kerosene/ wd 40 mix in a spray bottle, and it seems to work fine for that.


edit: I did get a lot of smoke at times on the lathe hogging stainless steel though. I guess there is one way to find out if it works- try it ha!

[JohnToner]

Mike, thanks, I'm not misting, I use generous flooding, and evaporation shouldn't be a major issue with oil. At this moment I'm running 6061 but I also do a lot of 303 and sometimes just mild steel. I don't want to be changing coolants with each material. If you think Ridgid would work with 6061, I should be good to go. If I could cut it with #2 diesel that would be even better. I believe #2 is pretty much kerosene with a lot of stink. The stink isn't an issue for me and #2 is approx $4.00/gal here in So Cal. And I totally agree with your resident machinist.

[mike sr1]

White spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here is a good read on mineral spirits, stoddard solvent etc.

I have a 5 gallon can of kerosene but it does stink thats for sure, I think the #2 diesel it would work fine if smell isnt an issue. The biggest issue I had was the smoke and throwing a lot of it away on the chips etc.

Ridgid oil, I used on my pipe machine, really good threading oil.

Stoddard solvent is basically kerosene without the stink, it goes over that in the link above......

I also clean and dry my machine after use as I just dont like the water based coolant on a machined surface......

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I've been using Rustlick WS5050 for about 6 months, and I virtually never wipe down the machine, and I've never thought about coating it in oil. Most nights, I don't do anything - just turn the machine off and go home. Never a spot of rust. I think you're over-thinking this....

Regards,
Ray L.

[JohnToner]

Ray, on the rare occasions that I can run two days in a row, I don't seem to have a problem. I can just walk away w/o cleaning and all is good the next day. However because of my work schedule, I usually have to wait a week between runs and that is when I have a problem. Another factor is that my setup is in a garage with no door, its open wide enough for two American cars to pass through. The rust I see is definitely real and going to mineral oil seems like a viable option, but I'm totally open to suggestions. As for the Rustlik I'm using, I don't know the product number. I'll check tomorrow (I'm only at the shop on Mondays). One question, what is your dilution ratio? I use whatever is on the label. It gives a range and I shoot for the mid-point.

Thanks,

[SCzEngrgGroup]

John,

If you're operating in a garage where the doors will be opened on cold, damp mornings, I'm afraid you're likely too have problems no matter what you use.

I use an optical refractometer to mix the coolant, and aim for a reading around Brix 4.0, or a bit less. I believe that us about 10:1.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Steve Seebold]

If you plan on using oil, be ready for a ton of smoke. Whatever you cut, it's gonna smoke.

[JohnToner]

Its not so much that the door's open, it's more like there is no door.

[JohnToner]

Steve, I know, I've used oil in the past on my Lagun, but chickened out because it was looking like a fuel-air bomb. I always keep extinguishers at hand, and I've never heard of anybody having problems, but if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck. I know you've been making chips for a good spell. The smoke shouldn't be a problem since I only have three walls and it's almost 700 sq. ft. whereas my Lagun was inside an 8x12 shack. Hopefully sometime next year I can add a door to the garage but they don't really seal all that tightly.

[Don Clement]

So I figure if I switch to regular cooling oil, rust and corrosion shouldn't be a problem and I'll save a lot of time.

I have run soluble oil flood coolant with my Tormach for over five years and had no rust issues. My Tormach is in an unheated shop where outside temperature ranges from a low of 20*F in winter to 80*F in summer. BTW This morning it is in the 40s and today is going to be perfect… dry, clear in the mid 60s. I typically have the door open that is right next to the Tormach when working in my shop as I certainly will today. I save a lot of time by not thinking about flood cooling alternatives because rust is not an issue for me. YMMV

Don

[fizzissist]

@ Don....
I spent a couple of years running a shop in Fawnskin. It was a garage that backed up to a campground, and weather permitting I had the door wide open to the outside.
The boss would come down the the shop in the afternoon and require that we play frisbee for a 1/2 hour. Grueling, but we got thru it, usually in time to go to lunch.
Wasn't much of a shop to speak of, but we put out a good product, and had a lot of fun doing it.

I still miss that view out of the back of the shop.

[mike sr1]

Over the short time I have been reading about different guys experiences with the coolant staining/rusting problems, it brings to mind when I first got the machine that there was a slight secondary voltage ranging from 5 volts to 20 volts on the machine between the computer and the machine frame, plugging in the thumb drive produced a small spark at times is how i discovered it.

I am wondering if that small voltage may be producing an electrolisis condition causing this problem? I use a separate usb cable now for the thumbdrive that isnt grounded to the machine frame (easier to get to). Maybe just some grounding straps would solve the problem and a good earth ground as well, which I never got around to doing?

There is a 230 volt supply to the machine as well as a separate 120 volt supply, I never really understood the reason for this? I think the differential between the two supplies is possibly what is causing this small voltage, as the grounding points are several feet from the machine..

I also got a small voltage reading from the table to the machine base, It would vary from 5 to 20 volts as well. I dont know how this would relate to the chips on the table to the table though, but I have seen strange things happen in electrical circuits that dont have proper grounding.........

food for thought maybe or too much free time again ha! Maybe I need to get to grounding the machine and talking less ha!

[Steve Seebold]

Maybe your rust problem is the coolant you are using. I have been using Swisslube Blazocut 2000 Universal for 2 1/2 years in my PCNC 1100 and close to 15 years in machines before that and I have NEVER had a rust issue.

When I am finished at the end of the day, I don't clean the table off. I let the chips sit so the coolant can drain back into the tank, then I will vacuum them up in the morning.

I have "NEVER" had a rust issue doing it that way.

[Don Clement]

You might think of bolting on a sacrificial zinc anode in addition to the ground strap. BoatUS – BoatTech – Sacrificial Zincs by Don Casey

Don

BTW Electrolysis ate the aluminum heads on two model 2002 Beemers before I added a substantial ground strap between the head and cast iron block.

[Don Clement]

@ Don....
I spent a couple of years running a shop in Fawnskin. It was a garage that backed up to a campground, and weather permitting I had the door wide open to the outside.
The boss would come down the the shop in the afternoon and require that we play frisbee for a 1/2 hour. Grueling, but we got thru it, usually in time to go to lunch.
Wasn't much of a shop to speak of, but we put out a good product, and had a lot of fun doing it.

I still miss that view out of the back of the shop.

Yeah I like Fawnskin; always go north shore when traveling up to Big Bear.

Don

[JohnToner]

Don, what coolant are you using and would it be appropriate for 6061, 303, and mild steel?

Thanks

[mike sr1]

You might think of bolting on a sacrificial zinc anode in addition to the ground strap. BoatUS – BoatTech – Sacrificial Zincs by Don Casey

Don

BTW Electrolysis ate the aluminum heads on two model 2002 Beemers before I added a substantial ground strap between the head and cast iron block.

Right Don, I havent had much of a problem of late with rust or what I "think" may be rust. I just checked the residual voltages again just now and it is running no more than 10 uv, this varies as well on the dc scale I have changed the 120 volt supply around some, I now have a battery backup supply on the computer now, maybe thats the difference possibly, it was enough voltage that it could be felt in the past, and produce a small spark so I would think it would have been more than a few micro volts to do that.

I guess I need to get a chunk of zinc and bolt it to the table? I am not sure what to connect it to, the salt water anodes bolted to the side of the engine on outboard motors, any thoughts on this appreciated.

I like the heat transfer abilities of the water based coolant and no smoke but I dont like the rust / staining.

I use a soluble oil now that works pretty well, the premier 600 that I got with the machine didnt work so well in this area.

[Don Clement]

Don, what coolant are you using and would it be appropriate for 6061, 303, and mild steel?

Thanks

I use a 10% solution Valcool VP650 as measured with a refractometer and do mostly 6061.

Don