[Crusty1007]

I picked up this Shizouka ST-N.
Its dirty as can be seen. Im hoping a thread will motivate me to get this thing up & running, but im going to need some help. (chair)

So here it goes:

How it sits.

















You probably thought to yourself- That looks like a problem.
If so, This might be a cause for concern:







The theory is to update it to a PC driven CNC.
It seems totally possible from what I read on the web.

So far from all the threads I've flipped through, sites I've hit there is a core group of people that are balls deep in these things.
Needless to say I hope they chime in when i get into the thick of things.

As far as I can tell so far, It is setup with stepper motors & the original Bandit NC control. Im not sure how to tell the series though. (I, II, III ?)

A couple links Ive found that i've flipped through:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53570
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...t=21588&page=4
http://www.barryfish.com/
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...t=53570&page=4
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.buildyouridea.com/cnc/Shizuoka/Shizuoka.html

Speed control: (i'll post closer pics of mine)
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82578

[TarHeelTom]

The theory is to update it to a PC driven CNC.
It seems totally possible from what I read on the web.

Very possible, fairly easy to do. From what I can see, there is only one obvious problem, that chewed up or broken splined shaft. What is it?

So far from all the threads I've flipped through, sites I've hit there is a core group of people that are balls deep in these things.
Needless to say I hope they chime in when i get into the thick of things.

Yep, lots of people here, and several just a bit further along than you are, which is quite helpful.

I like that fact that the machine is quite dirty. That means that the lube pump is probably working, which is a good thing. An oily mill is a happy mill. That looks like an automatic tool changer. Nice to have, if you need it.

Before you dig too deep, you need to clean the machine up a bunch (I use solvent, and 409 (but not together), and a couple of rolls of paper towels. Make sure you get the dirty paper towels out of the house or shop every night. Now it gets X rated. Take the skirts off the old gal and inspect her ways. Don't be embarrassed. Hopefully they are in good shape. If not, others can possibly help you, but not I. (No knowledge)

The fact that it says NC instead of CNC leads me to believe (I'm no expert) that this is an old machine. That computer may work, but keeping them working can cost a fortune. Keeping a PC working is cheap and easy.

When you start to strip the electronics out of it, start by tracing down the wires from the steppers or servos, disconnect them rather than cut them, and mark them, and preserve any existing markings. Same with all the wires from the switch panel on the head, the limit switches, etc. Start by buying a package of wire labels, maybe $20 at your local electrical supply house. Assuming you're going to run it off single phase power, using a VFD, almost everything else can come out, but save the 24 volt transformer, if there is one, as you'll probably need one later to drive all the relays and such. Save all the small 24 volt relays. They'll be used later to drive all sorts of things, like the lube pump, coolant pumps and valves, etc. You might even just keep these all connected for the time being.

Looks like there is/are one or more DIN rails with terminal strips and circuit breakers and fuses. Keep at least one or two rows of terminal strips. Use one for 110 or 220 volts, and one for 24 volts. Makes it easier later to figure out what voltage is which just by looking.

Suspect you're going to want to yank out all the old "computer" boards. If the machine is new enough, there might possibly be a market for them on fleaBay or Craigslist. Who knows. I advertised mine, then took them to the dump.

Have no idea how your lube system works. On the Bridgeport (and many of these import machines are just blatant copies) there is a piston pump (the Bijur, which you have). You can lift the piston up by hand and a spring pulls it back down. There is also a clockwork motor which turns an internal cam in the pump, which lifts the piston to the top of its travel, then drops it, and the spring pulls it back down. Then there are lube metering units, which are spring loaded one way valves with an internal orifice. Each of these results in a measured amount of oil flowing to each oil dispensing point. You need to insure that each of these dispensing points is, in fact, dispensing oil. If not, you'll soon have dry metal sliding on dry metal.

On my machine, the clockwork is set to raise the plunger in about 30 seconds. Get the part number off the cover to which everything else on the pump mounts, and you can look up the timer speed in a Bijur book. There are several copies floating around.

You're gonna have fun. I envy you that auto tool changer.

Well, I've answered a lot more questions than you asked, so I should shut up and let the more experienced heads have a chance. You can watch my progress at http://tomwade.me/tw/machinist/nm/

But do remember that not everyone is glued to the computer waiting to answer questions. Don't be discouraged if it takes several days to get the right answer.

Tom

[Crusty1007]

Tom,

That looks like an automatic tool changer. Nice to have, if you need it.

It is! I was hoping to reuse it, but Im not to concerned with it currently.

Take the skirts off the old gal and inspect her ways. Don't be embarrassed. Hopefully they are in good shape. If not, others can possibly help you, but not I. (No knowledge)

She is a Dirty girl! I have no idea how to inspect the ways or what Im looking for. In the areas that never saw use, it does have some surface rust.

The fact that it says NC instead of CNC leads me to believe (I'm no expert) that this is an old machine. That computer may work, but keeping them working can cost a fortune. Keeping a PC working is cheap and easy.

When you start to strip the electronics out of it, start by tracing down the wires from the steppers or servos, disconnect them rather than cut them, and mark them, and preserve any existing markings. Same with all the wires from the switch panel on the head, the limit switches, etc. Start by buying a package of wire labels, maybe $20 at your local electrical supply house. Assuming you're going to run it off single phase power, using a VFD, almost everything else can come out, but save the 24 volt transformer, if there is one, as you'll probably need one later to drive all the relays and such. Save all the small 24 volt relays. They'll be used later to drive all sorts of things, like the lube pump, coolant pumps and valves, etc. You might even just keep these all connected for the time being.

Looks like there is/are one or more DIN rails with terminal strips and circuit breakers and fuses. Keep at least one or two rows of terminal strips. Use one for 110 or 220 volts, and one for 24 volts. Makes it easier later to figure out what voltage is which just by looking.

Suspect you're going to want to yank out all the old "computer" boards. If the machine is new enough, there might possibly be a market for them on fleaBay or Craigslist. Who knows. I advertised mine, then took them to the dump.

When I recieved it, the computer was already somewhat torn down. I photo'd & figured out what goes where that was still connected. I hate cutting wires.
I plan to try to not rewire the whole system. or I should say, re-do as little as possible. Right now the only thing I removed was the stepper connections & a couple of power wires that led to the NC portion of the mill. I will try to re-use what I can, I'll pass the rest of the stuff on.
Im not sure what to do with the power. It is currently setup for 220V (I believe). I also have 3 phase on the panel 3 feet behind it. So I dont believe Ill have a problem with any of the setup. I guess it becomes personal preference? How are the guys in the know wiring these things?

Have no idea how your lube system works. On the Bridgeport (and many of these import machines are just blatant copies) there is a piston pump (the Bijur, which you have). You can lift the piston up by hand and a spring pulls it back down. There is also a clockwork motor which turns an internal cam in the pump, which lifts the piston to the top of its travel, then drops it, and the spring pulls it back down. Then there are lube metering units, which are spring loaded one way valves with an internal orifice. Each of these results in a measured amount of oil flowing to each oil dispensing point. You need to insure that each of these dispensing points is, in fact, dispensing oil. If not, you'll soon have dry metal sliding on dry metal.

On my machine, the clockwork is set to raise the plunger in about 30 seconds. Get the part number off the cover to which everything else on the pump mounts, and you can look up the timer speed in a Bijur book. There are several copies floating around.

I've been pulling that thing since I got it. Im hoping in the last couple months it has been pushing oil out & making my job easier when it comes time to get into the thick of it.

You're gonna have fun. I envy you that auto tool changer.

Well, I've answered a lot more questions than you asked, so I should shut up and let the more experienced heads have a chance. You can watch my progress at http://tomwade.me/tw/machinist/nm/

But do remember that not everyone is glued to the computer waiting to answer questions. Don't be discouraged if it takes several days to get the right answer.

Tom

Thanks for the good info Tom. Ill take a look @ your site & look your creation!

Ill spend some time this weekend cleaning it up. The "computer/NC" is ready to come off the side.
I could probably spend 2 days cleaning this thing.

[universalfab]

That's a old machine it's early 70's machine and controller. Good machines have a few of them 1 is a bigger one then that one of yours it was setup with a bandit1 or 2 with a toolchanger, servos, and 4th axis rotary. Pulled the controller off and replaced it with a newer cnc controller. The others are that exact size with steppers and retrofitted with newer cnc controllers. They are older machines I don't even know if they make these things any more. You might find some individuals around the U.S.A. that have parts for your bandit controller, we have 1 that we pulled off and it works, but it's missing 1 light and a couple buttons. If your interested let me know.

[TarHeelTom]

Tom,


It is! I was hoping to reuse it, but Im not to concerned with it currently.


She is a Dirty girl! I have no idea how to inspect the ways or what Im looking for. In the areas that never saw use, it does have some surface rust.

An oily mill is a happy mill. Look at the surface of the ways. Rub your hand over them. They should feel as smooth as a baby's bottom, or smoother. You should see what kinda looks like leaves in the surface. This is where an ace has taken a chisel and cut a very shallow gouge in the surface to trap oil.

You should not feel any major rust, deep gouges, etc. If you find anything like this, take pictures and post them. I'm not qualified to tell you what can or should be fixed, but there are many here who are qualified. But this is a high priority, as it will determine whether you should continue the march, or take the machine to a repair shop to be reground, or sold, or taken to the scrap yard.

However, most scrap yards will not accept automatic tool changers, so you'll have to ship that to me for disposal.

When I recieved it, the computer was already somewhat torn down. I photo'd & figured out what goes where that was still connected. I hate cutting wires.
I plan to try to not rewire the whole system. or I should say, re-do as little as possible. Right now the only thing I removed was the stepper connections & a couple of power wires that led to the NC portion of the mill. I will try to re-use what I can, I'll pass the rest of the stuff on.
Im not sure what to do with the power. It is currently setup for 220V (I believe). I also have 3 phase on the panel 3 feet behind it. So I dont believe Ill have a problem with any of the setup. I guess it becomes personal preference? How are the guys in the know wiring these things?

You probably need a separate panel with a disconnect to power just the mill. Might want to find a local industrial electrician to help with that. Nice that you've got 3 phase available. So many of us don't.

I've been pulling that thing since I got it. Im hoping in the last couple months it has been pushing oil out & making my job easier when it comes time to get into the thick of it.

An oily mill is a happy mill.

Ill spend some time this weekend cleaning it up. The "computer/NC" is ready to come off the side.

I wouldn't take the "NC" sign off. That's history there. Preserve it. (The sign, that is....)

Tom

[Al_The_Man]

A couple of things you want to do is to remove the Bijur pump and clean it out thoroughly, the way lube oil congeals after many years of use, the next is to flush the lines out and replace ALL the metering devices on the end of the lube lines, trust me, they will be blocked if they have never been changed.
The cabinet looks in nice shape and no apparent 'birds nests' due to quick mods etc.
For the tool changer, if it is in nice shape mechanically, a small PLC can act as a stand alone controller that can accept commands from the CNC and take the load off I/O demands.
Al.

[TarHeelTom]

A couple of things you want to do is to remove the Bijur pump and clean it out thoroughly, the way lube oil congeals after many years of use, the next is to flush the lines out...
Al.

Al,

What would you use to flush out the lines?

After cleaning out the Bijur, can one just put a pint of solvent in the tank and pump it through the lines?

Thanks

Tom

[Al_The_Man]

Not sure if there is a preferred product to flush with, maybe Gunk or similar, I use kerosene and let soak for at least overnight, then remove the meters and blow out the lines with compressed air.
Or for the cost of the copper, just replace the lines.
Al.

[Crusty1007]

That's a old machine it's early 70's machine and controller. Good machines have a few of them 1 is a bigger one then that one of yours it was setup with a bandit1 or 2 with a toolchanger, servos, and 4th axis rotary. Pulled the controller off and replaced it with a newer cnc controller. The others are that exact size with steppers and retrofitted with newer cnc controllers. They are older machines I don't even know if they make these things any more. You might find some individuals around the U.S.A. that have parts for your bandit controller, we have 1 that we pulled off and it works, but it's missing 1 light and a couple buttons. If your interested let me know.

The tag on the step driver says late 1980, So I assume it was in use by 1981.
I'm going to ditch the Bandit, It was half gone before I got to it.
Thanks for the offer on the Bandit parts!

An oily mill is a happy mill. Look at the surface of the ways. Rub your hand over them. They should feel as smooth as a baby's bottom, or smoother. You should see what kinda looks like leaves in the surface. This is where an ace has taken a chisel and cut a very shallow gouge in the surface to trap oil.

You should not feel any major rust, deep gouges, etc. If you find anything like this, take pictures and post them. I'm not qualified to tell you what can or should be fixed, but there are many here who are qualified. But this is a high priority, as it will determine whether you should continue the march, or take the machine to a repair shop to be reground, or sold, or taken to the scrap yard.

I need to clean them up something serious. Do you have any recommendations? Fine steel wool, Grey Scotch brite pad?

However, most scrap yards will not accept automatic tool changers, so you'll have to ship that to me for disposal.

I bet you will!
If I decide to ditch it, you have first dibs. It looks to be mechanically sound & shows no sign of wear, just dirty.

You probably need a separate panel with a disconnect to power just the mill. Might want to find a local industrial electrician to help with that. Nice that you've got 3 phase available. So many of us don't.
I wouldn't take the "NC" sign off. That's history there. Preserve it. (The sign, that is....)

Tom

So it looks originally like it had 220V powering the whole thing in the main panel. It then splits off from there. Im going to have to take a closer look.
I would assume it would be more efficient to run the motor 440V like its capable of doing?
Im going to keep all the tags on it!

A couple of things you want to do is to remove the Bijur pump and clean it out thoroughly, the way lube oil congeals after many years of use, the next is to flush the lines out and replace ALL the metering devices on the end of the lube lines, trust me, they will be blocked if they have never been changed.
The cabinet looks in nice shape and no apparent 'birds nests' due to quick mods etc.
For the tool changer, if it is in nice shape mechanically, a small PLC can act as a stand alone controller that can accept commands from the CNC and take the load off I/O demands.
Al.

Al,
Thanks for that info. I was wondering how I was going to tie-it into the network. I didn't think of the PLC.

Do you have any recommendations on "Way Oil"?
I'm not sure if the stuff in there is congealed. I would assume it is, I don't think this mill has been run for 10 years. Just stored in the garage.
It also has a few soft lines in the obvious locations. Is there someplace I can pick these up? Maybe a standard braided brake line will accomplish the same thing?

Thean

[Al_The_Man]

I use Vactra 2, http://www.mobil.com/India-English/L...a_numbered.pdf
For the lines, try any pneumatic supplier, if non-metalic.
Often very small gauge copper is also used.
Al.

[GaryCorlew]

There is a guy on the emc list that has the same exact mill, he is or has converted it to emc, I am not sure where he is in the process but he also may be of some help to you
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/

[TarHeelTom]

Do you have any recommendations on "Way Oil"?
I'm not sure if the stuff in there is congealed. I would assume it is, I don't think this mill has been run for 10 years. Just stored in the garage.
It also has a few soft lines in the obvious locations. Is there someplace I can pick these up? Maybe a standard braided brake line will accomplish the same thing?

Thean

Here are several places that have all of the lube parts available.

http://www.icai-online.com/ Bridgeport parts

http://gromax-usa.com/supplies/lubri...lubricator.htm

http://www.machinerypartsdepot.com

Tom

[Crusty1007]

Here is one of the motors for the X/Y axis. I believe the other is rated similarly.

It is an Aneheim Automation *Edited* Motor
1.8 Deg
Unipolar
1.8VDC
12.7A
1125 OZ/IN
• NEMA 42 Frame Size
• 1.8° Step Angle
• Torque up to 1,575 oz-in
• 5% of one step accuracy, non-cumulative
• -20°C to 50°C ambient temperature
• 100°C maximum case temperature
• NEMA class B insulation
• 1000M Ohms at 500VDC @25°C insulation resistance
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/pro...&tID=74&cID=19


I Emailed Gecko about their Step Motor Drives. From what I can tell though, these motors are a bit big for their drivers?

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, Is there any way I can figure out what the original drivers where rated for?
I have 2 boards left, maybe I can mess with them to see If I can run the steppers?

[universalfab]

Here is one of the motors for the X/Y axis. I believe the other is rated similarly.

It is an Aneheim Electric Motor
1.8 Deg
Unipolar
1.8VDC
12.7A
1125 OZ/IN

I Emailed Gecko about their Step Motor Drives. From what I can tell though, these motors are a bit big for their drivers?

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, Is there any way I can figure out what the original drivers where rated for?
I have 2 boards left, maybe I can mess with them to see If I can run the steppers?

Yeah buddy I sure do, in my opinion the Centroid CNC retrofit packages and controllers are the way to go. High quallity, easy to use g-code programming "one of the simplest I've used", easy to set up, best bang for your buck, and they have EXCELLENT tech support/costumer support. One of the best tech support teams I've dealt with. You give them a call when you need information on your controller 15 years later or more and they will treat you like a new costumer and get you right to a tech or give you a call right back, A+ business. Your going to be looking at around $5000.00 or if you want to put the controller together yourself, we also did this with one of our other machines to save some cash "just as good of quallity", you can buy the Ajax cnc controller kit. Ajax cnc controller kit's come with/without motors and are a put together kit. You'll have to fabricate a controller box to put everything in "which we can do for you if you'd like". Ajax controllers are the same exact controllers as centroid controllers. Ajax is a sister company of Centroid CNC that make the DIY controller kits with the exact same parts that go into Centroid CNC controllers. For a 3 axis Ajax cnc controller kit without motors your looking at around $1600.00, it may have gone up a little I'm not sure. Hope that helps...

[Crusty1007]

Here is a picture of the driver:

The tag that was on it:


& for that dirty guy Tom who wanted me to lift her skirts so he could take a look :

Is that a mister setup on the right side? It is plumbed for an airline.









Not exactly what I would call great.
I took a grey scotch brite pad, Degreaser, some WD-40 & some cutting oil & scrubbed them up a bit. Its starting to look better.
(See the right side)

Any suggestions on checking the ways?

:banana:

[Crusty1007]

Yeah buddy I sure do, in my opinion the Centroid CNC retrofit packages and controllers are the way to go. High quallity, easy to use g-code programming "one of the simplest I've used", easy to set up, best bang for your buck, and they have EXCELLENT tech support/costumer support. One of the best tech support teams I've dealt with. You give them a call when you need information on your controller 15 years later or more and they will treat you like a new costumer and get you right to a tech or give you a call right back, A+ business. Your going to be looking at around $5000.00 or if you want to put the controller together yourself, we also did this with one of our other machines to save some cash "just as good of quallity", you can buy the Ajax cnc controller kit. Ajax cnc controller kit's come with/without motors and are a put together kit. You'll have to fabricate a controller box to put everything in "which we can do for you if you'd like". Ajax controllers are the same exact controllers as centroid controllers. Ajax is a sister company of Centroid CNC that make the DIY controller kits with the exact same parts that go into Centroid CNC controllers. For a 3 axis Ajax cnc controller kit without motors your looking at around $1600.00, it may have gone up a little I'm not sure. Hope that helps...

Thanks, that is great info. I like dealing with people in the US & also ones that have great customer service. I have floated across their sight a couple of times. I would, if possible like to keep these steppers/motors. This thing doesnt need to produce parts with any serious amount of tight tolerances. Plus my budget for it is, well, negative right now. I'll check them out more serious if I can at some point step for a kit. No pun intended.

It seems like a few guys are using things like the gecko's. Im just worried about the longevity of them. (not that they are bad in MFG, just not rated for this thing is my understanding)
It looks like they are using a breakout board to tie it into the PC.

I think im going to go this route. Just not sure of the motor controller.
Im all ears if you have suggestions.

I would also like to find the original style SHIZ air motor/impact & also the OEM SHIZ draw bar. If that cant be done, then something that will bolt in. That way its ready for the Quickdraw tool changer if/when I can get that thing working.
EDIT*
I found this place:
http://www.machinemanuals.net/kurt/k...ck_drawbar.htm
P/N;
T-40: SH2101
T-30: SH2100

Thanks for the help & suggestions guys! Keep em' coming.

Thean

[Crusty1007]

Still working on cleaning it up. a few hrs here. a few there.

I took the Bijur mister off the side of the mills base.
In one side it was full of what looked like chunky spoiled milk in a white substance. The other side (The larger volume of the 2) was oil.

As far as I can tell, one well is a Water/Oil seperator?
The other well is for Water based coolant?
It was pretty corroded inside. I'll probably media blast it to really clean it up.

This is basically it just a very early version:
http://www.bijurdelimon.com/fileadmi...x-UB-UC_DS.pdf
The "Type" is a UBA
"Ser." # 01

Some pics;
The document I have for it:
side 1

side 2









Ill edit in the cleaned up pics.





It must have been a water based paint? My "solvent" tank is water based Bio-degradeable thats heated & it disolved the paint.

Here is the vertical way after some more elbow grease was applied:

[Crusty1007]

Does anyone have any diagrams for the Bandit Controller & the QuickDraw changer.

Asking for pneumatic diagrams may be wishful thinking.

Here's a scan of what I have for the base power supply circuits.



The Shiz is currently setup for 230V 3 phase input.

I need to figure out what the 3 phase service is here & then pull another leg through the wall for my box.

Can someone explain the reason a lot of guys are swapping to a VFD on the spindle rather than use the speed selection on the machine itself?
I assume its easier to interface with the software?

[Al_The_Man]

Generally the VFD solves two problems with a 3 phase machine on 1 ph.
The 3 ph spindle can be used and on top you get variable speed.
Often mechanical systems have problems and also as you mention, the spindle can be controlled by M3/M4 and S value.
You also need an at-speed signal from the VFD to controller.
There is a slight hi-cup in the VFD plan with yours as you also have a 100w 3ph coolant motor, in this case I would look at changing it out with a simple 1 ph sump pump motor etc.
The control is 120v 1ph as expected.
Al.

[Crusty1007]

Generally the VFD solves two problems with a 3 phase machine on 1 ph.
The 3 ph spindle can be used and on top you get variable speed.
Often mechanical systems have problems and also as you mention, the spindle can be controlled by M3/M4 and S value.
You also need an at-speed signal from the VFD to controller.
There is a slight hi-cup in the VFD plan with yours as you also have a 100w 3ph coolant motor, in this case I would look at changing it out with a simple 1 ph sump pump motor etc.
The control is 120v 1ph as expected.
Al.

So the positives to the VFD are:
Controlling speed with most modern programs.
Speed output to said program.

Downfall in my case is the sump pump.



If I skip the VFD can I still use the 3 phase & the manual speed control with the current programs?
What foreseeable problems do you see?

Thanks for your input!