[satch17]

We’re looking to replace equipment in our antiquated cnc machine shop that varies dramatically in manufacturers, toolholder size, controls, etc. Ideally we would like to find one brand, one holder, and one control. The machining envelope sizes needed are as follows.

1 – 3” bore cnc lathe with live tooling
1 – horizontal 4 axis 24” x 24”
2 – vertical 3 axis 20” x 40”
3 – vertical 3 axis 40” x 60”
1 – gantry/bed plate style VMC 50” x 100”+(this one would be nice if it was the same manufacturer as the rest but itseems to be limiting my choices)

Common material to be machined are 6061 alu.,A36, 514, high hard armor, and titanium.
There is little concern for conversational controls as we have featurecam software. This shop is almost exclusively prototype, so no need for pallet changing systems or other high production systems.
"
This shop doesn’t generally require very high tolerances. Only once a month will I possibly see plus .0005" minus zero. So we don’t need to go as high end as Hermle for example. But I would like to get more quality then our current fadal’s, toyoda’s, and yama seiki’s. This is a small shop inside of a large company located in south eastern Michigan that likes to purchase machines and run them for 20 to 30 years before selling. I might be able to talk them into a lease agreement if the price is right but lets assume that these machines will be staying around for a while.

Ive already interviewed Okuma, DMG mori, Makino, and Mazak. The question is, what other cnc machine manufacturers have I not considered that have what im looking for along with ample replacement parts on hand when something breaks, and plenty of service technicians available. Also, I am in no way interested in Haas machines, thank you.

[static99899]

Doosan, and YCM are 2 others you should consider. They're priced like a haas, but with Fanuc controls, and axis components, they're accurate and fast. Just my 2 cents....

[hanermo]

The better Mori machines are likely the best solution technically, imo, ime.
Not the economical ones, the better ones.

But, service times may be erratic, and costs will be very high.
Service varies greatly, worldwide, and the dealer and customer experiences are often, lets say, challenged.
This comes from inside info from an ex-mori dealer, who dropped them.

However, mostly You wont need service- the japanese machines as such are extremely good.

Service and support varies (quite a lot) by location and the year - Your situation is not necessarily the same as some others.
And past mistakes may have been rectified by any brand.


Me - I would buy the Haas.
VM, not VF, and not the SS series, especially for Your use.
For You, with the glass scale option, since you have the fund$.
Service is by far the best in the world, resale value is best.

Note:
When I delivered a VM6 to a high end mold shop, with glass scales, they stated it did as good work as the high end japanese machines they had.
Disclosure:
I used to be the commercial sales manager for Haas Spain, a few years ago.
No commercial interest on my part.

My best sales guy was an ex-Mori rep- and our owner a Mori distributor- so I have a lot of years accumulated experience.
With 200+ workers globally, and a few thousand installed machines.

Any of the japanese brands is really good technically.
Service experiences have been very variable, depending on location.
And there has been great churn in the DMG/Mori area, I believe / heard they are going direct in the USA.

DMG/Mori is the best business, most profitable, in Spain, of 54 machine tool distributors, by $$ and profit per year.
I had all the P&L statements, they are public data in Spain (30$ each).

Also, I personally would not look at any of the high end or rare machines, for Your particular use.
Less service, and support.

Business case:
It is also extremely unlikely you will get support for 20-30 years.
Most brands mutate in less than 10-15 years.
Best business choice is plan to replace MT stuff every 10 years or so- or evaluate every 5 years.

Of the approx 50 machine tool builders in Spain, 20 years ago, 21 survive.
Same is true globally.

[satch17]

I appreciate the input. ill have to look back into Doosan. and our YCM dealer is our makino dealer. maybe he just wanted to sell us the higher end machine. ill look into that as well.

mori's seem to be very robust machines certainly. were left a bit on our own to create ROIs and other data though, the local rep was a bit lacking. but I wont let that take away from the manufacturer.

and again, haas will not be considered.

[Hezz]

You might look at the Mitsubishi line. I have never used them but friend at work who used to be one of their setup guys thinks they are the best machines out there of the big companies. And he has worked on all kinds of machines including Mori's and Mazaks and Okuma's. One thing that is interesting is that the company is so big they have several divisions. They make CNC controllers for other companies and very nice standard size CNC machines. They also have a heavy division that makes large and special purpose CNC machines. One in particular would be nice to have is a CNC gear cutting machine in a relatively small footprint.

[underthetire]

Mits EDMs are great, the machine tools not so much. Done plenty of service on most brands. A real Mori is good, not the DMG stuff. Haas is fine for lighter materials, not hard armor. Okuma and makino both make excellent machines, as well as OKK. Your going to be hard pressed on the smaller mills to match tooling with the gantry unless you went 50 taper on all.
I'd look at SNK for the gantry
Mori NVX series on the verticals
Mori or makino on the horizontal, possibly okuma
And turning, pretty much Mori or Okuma, maybe a doosan.


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[satch17]

ill certainly check out those machines as well, thank you. ive pretty much decided that the big machine is its own beast so im not going to try that hard to constrain it to the single taper, control, etc. if I want the best fit for the work we do. and it seems that 40 taper is going to be the way to go for the rest of the machines based on what we want the speeds and feeds capable of. so the big machine can be 50 taper and that's just fine. we currently have both in the shop anyway.