[louieatienza]

Do Ford still make cars in America?.......Henry would turn over in his grave at the thought of a 3/4 Ford Chinese car.

BTW, in case you missed the plot or haven't read any of the previous posts, Defeng did not hold up his production line.....he re-located it to make better mills......his way.
Ian.

I think high-side was referring to the human rain delay....

[Tkamsker]

lou ypu are really right even you are first customer with special needs it will be all about how to deal with customers ,. for me dfeng has encouraged me to do similar he is doing so i will learn from everybodys mistakes but at the end the customer decides ,.. we will see but iam looking forward how your machine is performing ,..


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[louieatienza]

lou ypu are really right even you are first customer with special needs it will be all about how to deal with customers ,. for me dfeng has encouraged me to do similar he is doing so i will learn from everybodys mistakes but at the end the customer decides ,.. we will see but iam looking forward how your machine is performing ,..

I agree to a point. Honestly, it would be difficult to make the same decisions I did then knowing what I do now. A lot of these custom options, even if stock-off-the-shelf, take time to research, order, install and test. Research and development is great if you have the time and capital, and you don't work yourself to the grave. It's great to do everything to what you think to be perfection, and satisfy your pickiest clients, if you are compensated for it in the end. I hope Defeng does well with each machine he sells, because from quick first hand look, I don't think I could source the parts for my machine for anywhere near what I paid for the machine, including all the shipping, customs, and other fees.


I know first hand, having had my own cabinetmaking business, and home improvement business (thrice!), and also working as a foreman for a builder. Sometimes you just have to put your foot down and tell the customer the deal. Once they start wanting extra stuff, you got to give a cost up front. If you do R&D for a client who will never compensate you for the time and effort you put in, you start putting them in the backburner. Better money is made elsewhere. The customer is using you then, and you're both at a point of frustration. I smell it a mile away, my problem is that I'm too nice and accommodating. One reason I decided to pack it in and work for someone else. I got sick and tired of making deals with customers, then get weekly, even daily, changes, ideas... Promises and assumptions of getting taken care of in the end. Then the big argument when that itemized list of changes are presented. Stuff like "I didn't ask for that!" or "You never gave me a price!" or "I though you were experimenting..." I can go on and on.

I've built custom guitars and machined custom parts for some clients, but twenty years of hard tuition has taught me that while I accommodate my clients' needs, business is conducted on my own terms and changes are paid for up front. It's not being a prick, it's just setting rules so that both parties know what to expect. In my case here, it was a few back and forth emails with Defeng, and getting prices up front for the upgrades I wanted, on my proforma invoice. He was nice enough to had actually begun work on my machine parts while we sorted the details.

[Tkamsker]

hi lou i think you are right but because of your experience you where probably an customer who knows what he wants and why ,. i think there has to be an kind of base to work from and then think of doing variations because i think maybe some of the customers ideas may be worth doing it standardized. or having it as option. the price will also be an issue but how often does someone buy an mill ? i for instance have my first 2 machines ready i get them on tuesday (because of my day job ) the first customer wants feedback steppers what did i do it is now an option you can have stepper feedback in 2 ways and servo and i guess that make sense because it is up to the customer ,..


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[louieatienza]

Tkamster yes, I specified components based on my current needs while having capabilities for future work. I'm all for giving customers what they want, but many times they don't know what they want, or think they do based on misinformation or misunderstanding. Or they want all the bells and whistles yet have no real purpose for them. I'm actually cool with that. But here, as the builder, you should realize this and (a) discuss any changes, have it in writing, and discuss extra charges, (b) inform your client about their choices and "steer" them in the right direction. There was a commercial here that went, an educated consumer is our best customer. Well, if that education came at the cost of dismissing decades of knowledge form a large base it can be dangerous!

I also drill bowling balls, and I can't count how many people come in, saying they average 200 and want this high end ball, sanded to this grit, and laid out for max hook. Then when I watch them bowl to get their parameters like speed, rev rate, axis turn, I find their choice would be a big waste of money. I steer them to a more sensible choice, and give them the option. More often than not the customer thanks me for my knowledge, and saving him money in the process,while giving something that more fits his needs.

Now when the customer doesn't know what his needs are because they change with the winds and based on misinformation, I think it's more important as the builder to give guidance. You can't just do the stuff for free and chalk it up to R&D, this is a business not UNICEF.

[jips]

Tkamster yes, I specified components based on my current needs while having capabilities for future work. I'm all for giving customers what they want, but many times they don't know what they want, or think they do based on misinformation or misunderstanding. Or they want all the bells and whistles yet have no real purpose for them. I'm actually cool with that. But here, as the builder, you should realize this and (a) discuss any changes, have it in writing, and discuss extra charges, (b) inform your client about their choices and "steer" them in the right direction. There was a commercial here that went, an educated consumer is our best customer. Well, if that education came at the cost of dismissing decades of knowledge form a large base it can be dangerous!

I also drill bowling balls, and I can't count how many people come in, saying they average 200 and want this high end ball, sanded to this grit, and laid out for max hook. Then when I watch them bowl to get their parameters like speed, rev rate, axis turn, I find their choice would be a big waste of money. I steer them to a more sensible choice, and give them the option. More often than not the customer thanks me for my knowledge, and saving him money in the process,while giving something that more fits his needs.

Now when the customer doesn't know what his needs are because they change with the winds and based on misinformation, I think it's more important as the builder to give guidance. You can't just do the stuff for free and chalk it up to R&D, this is a business not UNICEF.

+1 totally agree, you have to purpose /offer , business didn't grow only with demand , the demand is a result of purpose offer . But like you said not UNICEF way

[why9faster]

Defeng you have a lot riding on lou`s machine I hope for your sake it`s all good and if it is they need more people like you over your way play the long game in the end you will win

I second Daniellyall's comments above. Defeng, at this point, most of us are on "baited breath" or "waiting on the edge of our seats" to see Louie's unbiased update of your SVM machine.

SkyFire CNC has lost some potential customers due to the communication issues and "very very long" delivery times. If your product is good, price is right, and delivery accurate or at minimum communicated well, your brand can regain the momentum it started a few years ago.

I am still interested in getting a SVM as well, but will wait on Louie and possibly others to see shipment responses.
I'll be watching closely to this thread.

[louieatienza]

I second Daniellyall's comments above. Defeng, at this point, most of us are on "baited breath" or "waiting on the edge of our seats" to see Louie's unbiased update of your SVM machine.

SkyFire CNC has lost some potential customers due to the communication issues and "very very long" delivery times. If your product is good, price is right, and delivery accurate or at minimum communicated well, your brand can regain the momentum it started a few years ago.

I am still interested in getting a SVM as well, but will wait on Louie and possibly others to see shipment responses.
I'll be watching closely to this thread.

I started a thread on my machine, it's in the main forum here, link a few posts below.

[jips]

Message to Defeng : check you email box , it's seems that it's full

[louieatienza]

Finally got the machine moving this past weekend.... Waiting for the electrician to wire me a 220V line and shutoff. Vid here:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncate...=1#post1728188

[why9faster]

Can or does anyone else besides louieatanza can share their experience or comments about their SkyFire CNC order?

Through this thread, it seems that there has been a number of orders placed but have only seen louie's received to date?

[Tkamsker]

And some People did not even get their wholesale parts delivered ,..
Sounds greek to me ,...

[ihavenofish]

Can or does anyone else besides louieatanza can share their experience or comments about their SkyFire CNC order?

Through this thread, it seems that there has been a number of orders placed but have only seen louie's received to date?

lots of small things have been received by various people. but only one machine that we know of.

[maelstrom007]

Re: Lack of machines
Some of those, like me, may have stated their intention to buy but have not actually ordered yet. I am sure if someone had placed an order for a machine and paid for it then they would be shouting from the rooftops. Defeng also advised me that an Escrow service was available.
cheers

[why9faster]

Re: Lack of machines
Some of those, like me, may have stated their intention to buy but have not actually ordered yet. I am sure if someone had placed an order for a machine and paid for it then they would be shouting from the rooftops. Defeng also advised me that an Escrow service was available.
cheers

I am under the same impression. Both the inconsistent communication and big body of water separating all of us has me very leery and cautious. More importantly we haven't even seen the post delivery tech support or any sign of it.

Alas, I may have to send my benjamins to a more established company with some real support like tormach or other. At least I won't have to drop 5k and wait to see if it arrives or not?

Please prove me wrong Defeng before I buy elsewhere.

[maelstrom007]

I have not had any inconsistent communication with Defeng nor am I in the USA. Whereas, in response to my email to Tormach regarding the complexities of purchase, import tariff and the Form E that I will require, I received two sentences. If an escrow arrangement is made then Skyfire will not get paid until the goods are FOB, so until someone starts screaming that they have paid for a machine from Skyfire and not received it then there is no reason to imply otherwise.

This is not an established company. By any definition it is a startup and it is one that has a refreshing degree of openness and has endured a lot of teething problems. I think there are many readers, like me, who appreciate the quality that Defeng is trying to build into his machines. I also believe that the price reflects that this business is just growing. When it is fully established with a slick marketing and public relations department, I am sure that the purchase price will reflect that.
cheers

[daniellyall]

if you emailed tormach this week there`s a reason communication is going to be a bit ruff for the next couple of weeks

[maelstrom007]

if you emailed tormach this week there`s a reason communication is going to be a bit ruff for the next couple of weeks

I emailed them months ago.

[ChristianLL]

I too would be very very keen to pick up an SVM-1 as long as I'm confident in actually receiving it. Otherwise, does anyone else know of a brand that makes machines about the same size with linear rails that are worth looking at other than Tormach? I'm in Australia, which makes it *10⁹² times harder to find machines and parts that I can actually buy compared to USA. Oh how I envy the US and it's machining ecosystem.

[ihavenofish]

thats the trouble. theres not many other machines like this for any price. the tormach has dovetails and is slow (but otherwise very nice). its also not really that cheap anymore. well over 10k with all the trimmings. same goes for novakon.

sieg makes a machine with rails and enclosure. but its also got a siemens control, so its up near $20k to start. you also need to deal with sieg for support, which is more complicated than a local dealer, or a seller with an organised online presence.

ive been pondering making my own again since defeng dropped the ball, but i dont think id be hitting his price points.