[cruizer67]

i was scouring through the threads of all the posts and was looking at everyones ideas for tooling and fixturing.. i really liked Dave berryhill posted..
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83655


i was wondreing what else everyones has come up with as for as tooling or fixturing for thier machines.

anyway we can get a thread for just these ideas? dxf or solidmodels are always welcome.

thanks

[Phishaholic]

I had similar thoughts. I like the idea of a pallet system. I'm thinking a cross between the pierson workholding ez_pallet and the pinned and fixtured table on the IH web site. A plate or pallet that bolts down with fixture pins to locate them. Then I could mount the vise on one, the 4th axis on another, and a couple pallets for small parts. It would make it easy to stop at tool change with a part in the vise and remove it, run a batch of small part and then remount the vice and finish the earlier project from where I left off.

Has anyone on this forum drilled, installed bushings, and tapped their Tormach like th IH on the link? Thanks!

Larry O

[RTP_Burnsville]

Add another person that would like to have some sort of fixture plate or quick change pallet system. Saabaero has a photo of his Tormach with a fixture plate in one of these threads not long ago that looked very nice. I looked at both of the systems mentioned above and see the advantages of both. It will be interesting to follow this thread and see what others have done.

[kevperro]

I agree, I'm thinking of ways to standardize some fixtures. I'm eagerly awaiting some ideas.

[benji2505]

I made a 1" thick plate that bolts down on the table with 6 socket screws. I am using the table grooves instead of drilling holes in the table. It sits there nicely and tight.

All holes are 2" apart and have a thread for bolting down the fixtures.There are special holes for vise and vac table since the hole distances are not multiples of 2". Other than the pics seen here on the forum I have put the splash guards on top of the plate. I do not miss the reduced 1" in the z-axis.

The plate aligns with the edges of the table (left, rear) and reaches pretty good repeatability this way. I was a little uneasy about going into the table for alignment pins or something similar.

We clean underneath the table every 50 hours of use, but you would only find small chips underneath. We put WD-40 between table and top plate before we bolt it down in order to avoid any issues with the table. We run over the plate every once in a while with a Scotch Brite disc to clean it, but the basic idea is to protect the table, not the plate.

We do build custom fixtures that basically just bolt down on this hole pattern.

Any suggestions welcome.

[Dave Berryhill]

That Pierson EZ Pallet looks pretty interesting and even without the quick change base "retention system," it gives me some good ideas about work holding and fixturing.

[RTP_Burnsville]

Benji2505,

Did you use threaded inserts in your fixture? What size threads did you use?

I agree about not being overly excited about drilling the table.

Thanks,

[benji2505]

The table is bolted down with the regular slot blocks. The thread in the top plate is an M12 (because I had a bunch of stainless M12 in different length).

The fixtures we use are custom made 6061 blocks with unthreaded holes in the 2x2 pattern, we just screw them onto the table. You will have to zero in each fixture, but that will be the same in all cases.

Benji

[cruizer67]

Benji.. if you added dowel pins or guides then when you built your custom fixtures then you would only have to indicate them the first time. we have a base plate that has an XY location that is indicated.. then every sub plate that we attach to it has its XY that is referenced from that all we have to do is put in the correct coordinates when it comes to using that certain fixture. the repeatability is very good. .. just a thought

[benji2505]

I like the idea and I thought about it.

What we do right now: we put a guide on the left egde of the table and on the rear end of the table and clamp it on there. Repeatability is within 2-3 thou and should be similar to any guide.

We were uneasy about drilling in the table because the mill does not reach the spots where we would have put the dowel pins, which means that one would either has to take off the table for drilling or drill the holes by hand (chair) (like in that website). So we just left the idea as is and searched for another solution.

Once the custom fixture is screwed down on the plate you have to zero it in anyway, because the fixture will be off by 2-5 thou due to all kinds of factors including precision of thru-holes in the fixture, etc. I doubt that will be different in the professional solutions on those web pages.

Benji

[zephyr9900]

...or drill the holes by hand (like in that website).

Who drilled holes by hand, Benji? On the IH website all the table holes were within the XYZ envelope, and drilled using the machine's head and quill. He even used a tap guide in the quill to tap straight. You could do the same with the Tormach--the Y travel is from the front edge of the table to the rear edge.

Randy

[Freddy Bastard]

I'm on my way to do exactly the same. I've got a 3/4 inch aluminium plate. I've made some custom t-slot block that use 1/4-20 screws (I'll probably use 8 screws to hold the plate). The big question by looking at your picture is about the drain. Why did you put it over the drains? Is it working well to drain coolant? I'll put 2 dowell pins, drilled directly in the table.

[Don Clement]

I use Kurt vise step keys to align both my Kurt D688 vise and angle fixture to the center slot on my Tormach. See: http://kurtworkholding.com/accessories/vise_keys.php With Kurt step keys the fixture and vise line up perfectly parallel to the X-axis travel. No need to dial in each time. The ground center slot on my Tormach is very accurate. There is no need for a tooling plate or to drill holes in the table. Of course I have to dial in the X,Y,Z axis' initial position each time the vise or angle fixture is remounted or the axis’ are referenced. I found that the stock mechanical limit switches are not better than +-0.002” to depend on accuracy after referencing. Perhaps I will replace the stock limit switches someday with optical, capacitive, inductive, Hall effect, or some other non contact type, but for now I just re-indicate datum after referencing the axis’. Note that the Kurt D688 vise opening of 8.8" allows many subfixtures to be mounted in the vise jaws. I use subfixtures with 1/8" diameter roll pins refereced to drill bushings press fitted into cast aluminum tooling plate for alignment of parts. Cast Aluminum tooling plate is dead soft and stress free; ideal for fixtures.

Don

[zephyr9900]

Cast Aluminum tooling plate is dead soft and stress free; ideal for fixtures.

It is great stuff, Don. Several years ago I bought a pile of it from S & S Machine in various thicknesses. It is literally so soft that I need to use washers under capscrew heads with it to increase the bearing area--I forgot the other day and dented a piece by torquing down some 4-40's against it.

Randy

[Don Clement]

Yeah tooling plate is dead soft. I use Keenserts for threaded holes or the pressed in drill bushing for roll pin locators.see: http://www.bjg-design.com/designbook...NS-KNS-KNS.pdf and http://tinyurl.com/m6wkz4 Also Carr Lane has various alignment systems for fixtures such as Ball mounting system http://tinyurl.com/ks3e7u
I get my tooling plate as rems from IMS. http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/ I also buy all of my 6061-T6 from IMS as they only sell USA made aluminum, not the gummy China made stuff. I usually buy > 500lbs of 6061-T6 in 12’ lengths. As a courtesy IMS cuts each 12’ length in half to 6’ so it fits in the back of my Tacoma truck to haul up the mountain. Good thing as 6’ of 4.5” diameter rounds are my personal limit to move around by hand. I have a HF 7x12 bandsaw with a Lennox 4-6 tpi bimetal blade that cuts stock into machinable sizes for machining on the Tormach or 12x36 lathe. The bandsaw uses flood coolant for horizontal cutting or the Vortec cold air gun for vertical cutting. I used to use a cutoff saw with a 10” non-ferrous blade but that is really loud and dangerous but much faster cutting.

Don

[benji2505]

alright, some questions to comment:

Randy: my machine does not go to the lower/upper edge of the table. Maybe I should start messing around with the limit switches. Never missed the extra y-reach though. The manual impression came with some pictures, now I saw that the dude just chamfered with a manual machine (....). But he made the holes with his mill- fair enough - you are right.

Don: I bought the vise with the mill from Tormach. the vise has the grooves, but it does not have the alignment pieces to align it with the grooves, I was told to go to www.littlemachineshop.com and get it there, if they offer it..... Well, that brought up the idea of the table top.

But the bottom line is always the same: there is no plug and play vise system unless you buy a HMC with a tombstone for 100k+. You have to zero in the fixture and then go from there. I mean what else would you want? Make a fixture for standard blanks and go from there. The pictures on those web pages show exactly that. They do not do anything different.

Benji

[benji2505]

coolant is not an issue. I'd say 90% of the coolant goes through the threaded holes through the table into the machine - the remainder goes over the edge into the machine. Large and medium size chips are kept on the table, smaller stuff gets washed inside. That is why we clean it underneath every once in a while.

All holes are M12 thru holes, with the 2x2" pattern all of them drain into the grooves underneath. Our top holes are at Y=0, the bottom holes are at Y=8 (from what I remember). we had to move the plate once when we cut holes and threads, but this movement is the tricky part to get all holes perfectly aligned in x-direction.

Benji

[Don Clement]

Benji,

I have to zero datums but don't have to align the vise jaws or my angle fixture to be parallel to x-axis travel with the Kurt step keys. IMO the Tormach could be plug and play if the limit switches were replaced with a more repeatable type and if one uses kinematic principles to locate parts. No need for a $100K VMC and tombstone. In theory one could use a 3D probe and use software to correct for fixture or vise misalignment.

Don

[cruizer67]

on issues of the limit switches... has anyone moved them to gain extra travel?

[justgary]

I have peeked under my machine and looked at the ballscrews with the table at its limits, and I don't think you'll get too much more travel. Even an extra 1/2" would help, though, so perhaps it's worth another look. Do it carefully, though, since a mistake could be very costly.

Regards,

- Just Gary