[mik32176]

my plm has servos and linear rails, and cuts aluminum very nice, but it has an upgraded spindle, so it turns around 3000-10000rpm, software is d.o.s based. which I will upgrade to mach 3 if I keep it. but I cant cut steel because of the spindle speed, and the machine is hard to find anything for.
the tormach I hear cuts steel like butter, is obviosly a much more rigid machine, has a bigger cutting area, mine is only 6x12 but I think Its smaller because I havent been able to get that much out of it. the only thing that concerns me with the tormach is what do they mean by short production runs? does that mean I cant run it any longer the a certain period of time? and if so what is that time frame? last does anybody have any cons about the tormach.

I have realy been beating myself up over this, I know I can sell my mill for close to what the tormach goes for. and I have some extra money now and I want to get the most out of it. thanks for the help, mike

[MichaelHenry]

You might want to post this in the Tormach section here or in the Tormach Yahoo group if you haven't already.

From what I can tell, Tormach limits the feed rate and rapid speed to 65 ipm, which makes it a bit slow for large production runs as each part will take longer to make than it would on the more mainstream CNC mills, which apparently can feed and rapid at much higher speeds (200 ipm?).

The thought is that the part design and CAM time for prototypes and short runs will take the bulk of the overall part production time and that faster mill speeds are not cost effective in that context. This is all covered to some extent in the mill design document available on Tormach's web site.

If you are a hobbyist or a pro that only makes a few parts per run, the mill should be fine. If you want to run parts 24/7 in a competitive market you might want to look at higher range mills.

I'm a hobbyist and the feature set should be just about right for me, so I just placed an order and should have the mill in about 6 weeks.

Mike

[ataxy]

there is a tormach section

[dammachines]

Just wondering, what's a plm 2000? I've seen the Pro-Light 1000, but not a 2000... Any links to pictures?

Just trying to compare to my Tormach...

Thanks,
Dave

[mik32176]

I dont have much info on it either, it is a pro light machine, sorry I dont have a better pic, waiting on camera. I have found some information here and there on the web, the 2000 model has a regular spindle the 2500 model has 45000rpm liquid cooled spindle. the machine weighs about 425 lbs. its very fast on rapid traverse. which I dont use very much being new at this im always worried about putting that in the wrong spot.

[tobyaxis]

From what I can tell, Tormach limits the feed rate and rapid speed to 65 ipm, which makes it a bit slow for large production runs as each part will take longer to make than it would on the more mainstream CNC mills, which apparently can feed and rapid at much higher speeds (200 ipm?).

The thought is that the part design and CAM time for prototypes and short runs will take the bulk of the overall part production time and that faster mill speeds are not cost effective in that context. This is all covered to some extent in the mill design document available on Tormach's web site.

I'm a hobbyist and the feature set should be just about right for me, so I just placed an order and should have the mill in about 6 weeks.

Mike

The 200+ Rapids for Production on New CNC's is around 1200-2800 IPM depending on the travels of the machine and the distance to be traveled.

Ex. A CNC Swisss Screw Machine has Gang Type tooling on both sides of the guide bushing and a travel in the X/Y of 1.5 inches. The Rapids are around 800 IPM. Very Fast.

As a suggestion if I may, the Tormach seems to me like a Tough Little CNC Mill that should do well cutting Steel. As a note you can get production out of the Tormach with a little method I like to Call "Raising the Z". If you were to place a 2" inch thick block under your vise or fixture you reduce the amount of travel in the Z axis. This means the Z has less of a distance to travel, hence a slightly lower cycle time and less wear-n-tear on the Z axis Ball Screw.

:cheers:

[David Bord]

I spoke to two tormach customers who are actually running the machine 9+ hours a day in a production environment. Both have been very very happy with the machines. One is producing medical molds in SS with the 4th axis.. and the other oil pump housing for turbine motors if I remember correctly.

Tormach seems to be conservative with the machines capability. I think the purpose of that statement was to set customers expectation... Its wasnt designed as a production machine, despite the fact some are using it that way.

With that said, after speaking to a few tormach customers and Greg Jackson of Tormach, I placed my order and should be receiving my machine in a week or so!

David

[mik32176]

I think im going to go with the tormach, it has more capability then mine. plus it has accessories you can get, like a 4th axis would be nice, not that im ready now but when the time comes. im still working on 2 axis programing.

[tobyaxis]

I think im going to go with the tormach, it has more capability then mine. plus it has accessories you can get, like a 4th axis would be nice, not that im ready now but when the time comes. im still working on 2 axis programing.

If you decide to get a Tormach let everyone know how you make out with it. Are you having trouble programming? If it's EIA/ISO G-Code maybe I can help.

Good Luck with what ever you decide to do. (pssssst... go for the 4th axis)

[philbur]

Surely if you write the correct gcode you will not have 2 inches of unecessary z-axis travel in the first place.

Regards
Phil

As a note you can get production out of the Tormach with a little method I like to Call "Raising the Z". If you were to place a 2" inch thick block under your vise or fixture you reduce the amount of travel in the Z axis. This means the Z has less of a distance to travel, hence a slightly lower cycle time and less wear-n-tear on the Z axis Ball Screw.

:cheers:

[tobyaxis]

Surely if you write the correct gcode you will not have 2 inches of unecessary z-axis travel in the first place.

Regards
Phil

What are you refering too? Do you even understand the method in which I speak? From your statement I think you may be a bit confused.

[philbur]

It is quite possible that I misunderstand. However I still cannot see how you reduce cycle time by raising the vice 2 inches. Could you be a bit more explicit about the method?

Regards
Phil

What are you refering too? Do you even understand the method in which I speak? From your statement I think you may be a bit confused.

[Greolt]

Ok I'll bite. What do you mean Toby? For us non machinist types

[tobyaxis]

It is quite possible that I misunderstand. However I still cannot see how you reduce cycle time by raising the vice 2 inches. Could you be a bit more explicit about the method?

Regards
Phil

In a standard VMC usually there is about 20 to 25 Inches of travel in the Z Axis. In this case 2" won't do squat. On a larger application I usually go 5 to 10 inches and have fixtures already made for this. But on a tiny Tormach this can work wonders for someone because a small Tormach does not have an ATC (unless I have missed something on their website, which is a possibility), so they will only use one tool per Cycle. I would have suggested more but someone may want a little room to load and unload parts or change a broken tool if need be. Do you get it now.

2" was just a simple example of raising a vise a little more above the table to reduce the amount of travel in the Z Axis. This method is widely used in shops that make parts in the Thousands, 100 Thousands, and Million Piece Runs.
:cheers:

[philbur]

I'm afraid not.

You seem to start you explanation assuming the reader already has knowledge of what you speak. I clearly don't. What is the concept involved here?

How does raising the vice shorted the cycle time?

I can understand how it would work with an ATC but ,as you point out, the Tormach does not have one.

Surely the spindle only has to move up sufficient distance in order to allow a move to the next step or to allow a tool change. How can raising the vice make upward movement any less?

regards
Phil

Do you get it now.

[lakeside]

Surely the spindle only has to move up Phil

In a Mill the tool starts at Z home which is above the part so the tool would have less distance to top of part. But if at end of program your move is only up and away a little. The 2" is not a factor.As you would position tool to be out of the way for part change. I would use a 1 1/2 alum. subplate drilled and steel instert threads for machine table.

[tobyaxis]

I'm afraid not.

You seem to start you explanation assuming the reader already has knowledge of what you speak. I clearly don't. What is the concept involved here?

How does raising the vice shorted the cycle time?

I can understand how it would work with an ATC but ,as you point out, the Tormach does not have one.

Surely the spindle only has to move up sufficient distance in order to allow a move to the next step or to allow a tool change. How can raising the vice make upward movement any less?

regards
Phil

Ok, so I am not used to teaching the basic principals of machining. My Bad.

I'll give you a working example.
Tormach Z axis total travel is 15 inches from the tool tip to the work. If the distance is reduced by say 3" what happens, now your total travel is 12". With 65 IPM Maximum Rapid the tool now can reach the target destination in less time from the Home position. Hence, a reduction in actual cycle time from one part cycle to the next.

Programming has nothing to do with it with the exception of the initial point return or safe Z level rapiding from one point of th work to the next point. ex. Multipal pockets, Drill Cycles, Counter Bores etc.

[philbur]

I'm still not quite there.

Apart for referencing the z-axis when I turn the machine on why would I want to "home" the z-axis (or any axis) from one part cycle to the next.

Regards
Phil

With 65 IPM Maximum Rapid the tool now can reach the target destination in less time from the Home position. Hence, a reduction in actual cycle time from one part cycle to the next.

[tobyaxis]

I'm still not quite there.

Apart for referencing the z-axis when I turn the machine on why would I want to "home" the z-axis (or any axis) from one part cycle to the next.

Regards
Phil

To have enough room to load and unload parts with out bumping into the sharp tool in the Spindle. Or you could just Home the X and Y Axes on a small machine like a Tormach. What ever you want really.

I guess you would have to see an example first hand. Or Geof could explain this to you better than I can. Why don't you PM him. He has a way with explaining things the right way. I'm just a Machinist.

Sorry I couldn't help you to understand.

[philbur]

Of course, but you don't necessarily have to "home" it 15 inches to change out the part, surely you write the gcode to move the tool the shortest possible distance necessary to allow you to change out the part. This distance will be the same regardless of whether you raise the vice or not.

Regards
Phil

To have enough room to load and unload parts with out bumping into the sharp tool in the Spindle. Or you could just Home the X and Y Axes on a small machine like a Tormach. What ever you want really.