[jossa]

hi.

i am not to technical but i got a good idea about the things we deal with here, but again i am by no means an expert


so far the story is as following:

i have

• SX3 mill
• Witch i bought a 2.2Kw BLDC spindle motor for
• And converted it with a CNCFusion Delux kit.
• 3 Nema 23 steppers (Y/X and a future A axis, A axis not connected)
• 1 Nema 34 stepper (Z axis)
• Controller card for the BLDC spindle motor
• 3 inductive limit switches
• Emergency stop switch
• Touch probe
  

so not to complicated...


i have got the steppers moving, so that is good. (but i still don't understand the reason for doing the steps i was told to do)
but to be honest i am a bit lost on the rest, is there any wiring diagrams people have used before? (the examples in the manual is not that easy to understand and i feel they assume you know a bit more then i do)
such as the limit switches, how do people normally connect them?

the BLDC spindle interface is a different story, and i have documented it here, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynomo...tor-kflop.html
that is mostly a problem due to bad documentation from the Chinese suppler, bur i am still not sure how to program and connect all this.


so i am wondering if there is a "walktroug" or step by step for setting it all up? maby a video?
the manual is not to easy to understand and the programming part is not easy to understand just from reading the manual.

sorry tom for saying this, the problem is with me for not having the knowledge to understand it out of the box.. but maybe this can help others wanting to buy it?

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

What type of Stepper Drives do you have? How are they wired? Please post your configuration on how you have them working.

Regarding Limit switches: Do you only have a KFLOP? No other boards? If so you will need the Proximity switches to generate a 0 to 3.3V signal. Do you have specifications on the Proximity Switches?

Regards

[jossa]

First of. sorry for the slightly ranting first post.. it does not make a lot of sense when i read it now... i was frustrated and tired.

So what i have tried to do is to present what i am doing in a more structured way.. (the entire project is in there)

Attachment 259640


I hope this makes more sense and is easier to understand..

What i need help with is the following:

• Understand the logic workflow of setting up the Dynomotion system, sort of a step by step guide with explanation of what and why you are doing (i don't mean to be rude but the manual is not that easy to follow, and i read a lot of English technical manuals in my line of work)
• Connecting the sensors and peripherals
• Connecting to the BLDC spindle motor and control it
• Programming everything in the Kmotion software

Some extra information:

• I have connected the steppers and have run test G code on them, but i am not sure how to program this into the memory of the unit, because i need to load the 3 axis sample file each time i start working on it.
• For the inductive switches i have 5V DC available from a power supply in my cabinet
• The digital probe is not acquired yet.. i am looking for good options, but i would like to wire it up and program it in advance.
• Spindle control is "explained" in the BLDC manual. i will include a copy in this thread.
• The quad relay board is for flood cooling and 3 spare relays for future upgrades
• The emergency stop circuit is 2 buttons in series, NC

(manual is for a 1100W motor, the controller is the same, but the English in the manual is much better)
Attachment 259660

Attachment 259662

Attachment 259664

Attachment 259666

i also found this thread, i am going to try to contact cjdavis618 and see if he can help in understanding the Chinese mystery
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...08728-cnc.html

[jossa]

in cjdavis618 thread he writes. (and he is forced to use PWM since the first modells in 2010 did not have 0-10V input
and he is using this breakoutboard: http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11GR8_2_USER_MANUAL.pdf

As for the wiring for the device, I simply have 4 wires coming from my c11g board connecting to the driver.
Those are 5+ volts, Ground(Gnd) and then wires coming from output 1 and 17 that go straight to the CN6 connector on the driver.

My output 1 goes to PWM and the Output 17 goes to F/R on the CN6.
The settings in Mach 3 determine my direction and pulse.

One thing to note is that once you supply +5 volts to the BLDC drive on CN6, it will disable the spindle controller button panel.

[jossa]

i have now gotten the controller on the BLDC controller to give out 5V dc between pin 2 and 7 on CN15..
that is a start.. i am working on getting it to run just using the wires like in the example i got from the manufacturer



i am also revisiting the old thread we had going..

Yes JP33 Pins 5,6, and 7 are the KSTEP Analog Output pins.

Apply KFLOP's +5V to JP33 pin 5.
Apply KFLOP's GND to JP33 pin 7 and also Spindle CN17 GND
Then JP33 Pin 6 will be a 0-5V signal that you can connect to the Spindle CN17 "Input".

Configure KMotionCNC | Tool Setup | M3-M9 | S = Exec Prog Thread=2 Var=1 <>\C Programs\KSTEP\KMotionCNC\Spindle_S_KStep.c

Check with a Voltmeter (DC Volts) to JP33 Pin6. Commanding in KMotionCNC MDI S100 should read about 1.0V, S250 should read about 2.5V, S400 should read about 4.0V. etc.

i did this with a small mod to it (did not know if i needed the "testfil.c" so i added it...

#include "testfil.c"   <---- this is InitKStep4Axis.c with a tiny tweak to it
#include "KMotionDef.h"
#include "CorrectAnalogFunction.c"

#define RefVoltage 11.09f

main()
{
	float V=5.0;  <---- and by going from 1 to 19 i could achive 4,4V on JP33 pin6
	
	FPGA(KAN_TRIG_REG)=4;  // Mux PWM0 to JP7 Pin5 IO 44 for KSTEP 
	SetBitDirection(44,1);  // define bit as an output
	FPGA(IO_PWMS_PRESCALE) = 46;  	// divide clock by 46 (1.4 KHz)
	FPGA(IO_PWMS+1) = 1;  			// Enable
	
	FPGA(IO_PWMS) = CorrectAnalog(V/RefVoltage);  	// Set PWM
}

so now jp33 pin6 is outputting to max 90% of input i guess?
but i still don't know how to control the spindle from KmotionCNC.. when i push Start CC it does nothing



one more thing, now that i have found out that the BLDC motor is emitting 5V from pin 2, would the original wiring example be right? should we mix 2 different power sources like that?

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

Earlier you list you have PNP Proximity Switches. Those will not work with the KSTEP Opto Isolated inputs. KSTEP is designed to work with only the more common NPN (switch to GND) type of Switches as shown in this diagram in the KSTEP Help:

did not know if i needed the "testfil.c" so i added it...

No you should not include another file with a main function inside a file that already has a main function.

float V=5.0; <---- and by going from 1 to 19 i could achive 4,4V on JP33 pin6

I don't understand what you mean by this.

so now jp33 pin6 is outputting to max 90% of input i guess?

I don't understand what you mean by this either. This test program is to verify that you can set the output voltage to the value of V. So for example if you change the program to set V=3.5 and run the program then if you check the voltage with a meter the voltage should be 3.5V. And then if you change the value in the program to set V=1.0 and run the program then if you check the voltage with a meter then the voltage should be 1.0V. Only after you verified this is all working correctly should you attempt to go on to the next step.

If you are applying +5V to the KSTEP Analog Circuit then that is the Reference Voltage for the Analog Circuit. Change the RefVoltage definition in the Program to 5.0.

one more thing, now that i have found out that the BLDC motor is emitting 5V from pin 2, would the original wiring example be right? should we mix 2 different power sources like that?

Yes using the Reference voltage from the Spindle Controller to control the Spindle Controller would be the preferred method. The KSTEP Analog Output circuitry is completely isolated from all power sources. In fact if you do not do this you are "mixing" power sources together by connecting their GNDs together.

HTH
Regards

[jossa]

Hi jossa,

Earlier you list you have PNP Proximity Switches. Those will not work with the KSTEP Opto Isolated inputs. KSTEP is designed to work with only the more common NPN (switch to GND) type of Switches as shown in this diagram in the KSTEP Help:

ok, do you know of any switches that you can recommend?

did not know if i needed the "testfil.c" so i added it...
No you should not include another file with a main function inside a file that already has a main function.

ok, did not know that, it is now removed.

float V=5.0; <---- and by going from 1 to 19 i could achive 4,4V on JP33 pin6
I don't understand what you mean by this.

if i enter 5 i measure 1,87V on pin 6 and 7 JP33


so now jp33 pin6 is outputting to max 90% of input i guess?
I don't understand what you mean by this either. This test program is to verify that you can set the output voltage to the value of V. So for example if you change the program to set V=3.5 and run the program then if you check the voltage with a meter the voltage should be 3.5V. And then if you change the value in the program to set V=1.0 and run the program then if you check the voltage with a meter then the voltage should be 1.0V. Only after you verified this is all working correctly should you attempt to go on to the next step.

ok, forget about the 90% i am mixing 2 different things here.. in that case it is not working, because i get a much lower output on pin 6 then i enter as a float

If you are applying +5V to the KSTEP Analog Circuit then that is the Reference Voltage for the Analog Circuit. Change the RefVoltage definition in the Program to 5.0.

in what program? CorrectAnalogFunction ?


one more thing, now that i have found out that the BLDC motor is emitting 5V from pin 2, would the original wiring example be right? should we mix 2 different power sources like that?
Yes using the Reference voltage from the Spindle Controller to control the Spindle Controller would be the preferred method. The KSTEP Analog Output circuitry is completely isolated from all power sources. In fact if you do not do this you are "mixing" power sources together by connecting their GNDs together.

ah ok i understand... will do that once we get the rest up and running.

HTH
Regards

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

do you know of any switches that you can recommend?

Not specifically, any 3 wire 12 or 24V NPN type should work.

in what program? CorrectAnalogFunction ?

No. The test program we were dicussing. Change:

#define RefVoltage 11.09f

to

#define RefVoltage 5.0f

Regards

[jossa]

Not specifically, any 3 wire 12 or 24V NPN type should work.

ok. i might have som high end Pepperl+Fuchs sensors laying in a drawer somewhere, i will get back to you with the specs of them.
is the voltage spesific to 12V and 24V? is that because of the inputs? (that means i need to get yet another powersuply.. 24v is commonly available in industry tho)

No. The test program we were dicussing. Change:

#define RefVoltage 11.09f

to

#define RefVoltage 5.0f

aaah.. when i went back and checked the piece of code you gave me, i found out that that line was not in my editor.
it must have been edited out maby... i don't know but it works now..

one strange thing i noticed is that my 5V output from the KFlop is more like 4.4V (JP4 pin 1 and 8)




anyway JP33 pin 6 now follows what i type inn..
i changed #define RefVoltage 5.0f to 4.4f and when i type in float 3.8 i measure 3,78V on pin 6.


what would be the next step to implement this then?

also for the rest of the control we would need:

• Speed reference - 0-5VDC (this is now ok now, we take pin 2 (+5V) and pin 7 (GND) feed them to JP33 pin 5 and 7 and feed JP33 pin 6 back to CN5 input on DLDC controller pin 7 GND also gets fed into CN5 as ground)
• Start and Stop (according to the manual it should be a matter of shorting pin 4 (s/p) to pin 7 (GND) contact means start)
• Clockwise and Counterclockwise rotation control (5 (F/R) "Forward running on High level, reverse running on lower level" (guess shorted to 7 (GND) means forward)

[TomKerekes]

ok. i might have som high end Pepperl+Fuchs sensors laying in a drawer somewhere, i will get back to you with the specs of them.
is the voltage spesific to 12V and 24V? is that because of the inputs? (that means i need to get yet another powersuply.. 24v is commonly available in industry tho)

Yes you should have a separate, isolated 12V or 24V power supply for all your limits, home, and other switch type inputs. The 16 opto isolated inputs on KSTEP all have the same common anode so they basically must all operate from the same voltage (12 ~ 24V) and be NPN type to sink current to GND.

one strange thing i noticed is that my 5V output from the KFlop is more like 4.4V (JP4 pin 1 and 8)

If you are only supplying 4.4V to KFLOP that is not good.

Start and Stop (according to the manual it should be a matter of shorting pin 4 (s/p) to pin 7 (GND) contact means start)
Clockwise and Counterclockwise rotation control (5 (F/R) "Forward running on High level, reverse running on lower level" (guess shorted to 7 (GND) means forward)

KSTEP has two "Relay Drive Outputs" that should work for this purpose. They basically work like switches. The next step would be to get those working. See the section on "Relay Driver Outputs" in these two KSTEP Help Pages:

KStep Connectors
Using KStep

Regards

[jossa]

Yes you should have a separate, isolated 12V or 24V power supply for all your limits, home, and other switch type inputs. The 16 opto isolated inputs on KSTEP all have the same common anode so they basically must all operate from the same voltage (12 ~ 24V) and be NPN type to sink current to GND.

ok i will add a 24V supply to my cabinet then

If you are only supplying 4.4V to KFLOP that is not good.
no my supply is 5V solid, (measured it on the plug in to the KFlop) but the output from JP4 pin 1 and 8 is only 4,4V when connected without any connections it is 5V


KSTEP has two "Relay Drive Outputs" that should work for this purpose. They basically work like switches. The next step would be to get those working. See the section on "Relay Driver Outputs" in these two KSTEP Help Pages:

KStep Connectors
Using KStep



how do i program this in? just entering the code below gives me an error on compilation.

i get that this is most likely for testing, like with the 0-5 output we did..

SetBitDirection(0,1); //set as output
SetBitDirection(1,1); //set as output

SetBit(0); // turn output on
SetBit(1); // turn output on

ClearBit(0); // turn output off
ClearBit(1); // turn output off

JP33 Pin 1-4 is the pins in question.. and i just wire it through them

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

no my supply is 5V solid, (measured it on the plug in to the KFlop) but the output from JP4 pin 1 and 8 is only 4,4V when connected without any connections it is 5V

That is very strange. The 5V and GND connections through KFLOP are internal solid copper power planes. Where exactly are you placing the Red and Black Probes of your meter? What connections are you referring to? Did you check your supply (at KFLOP) with these connections made?

how do i program this in? just entering the code below gives me an error on compilation.

Every KFLOP C Program needs to have a "main" function which is where execution begins. It also needs to include a Header file called KMotionDef.h which contains all the definitions for the compiler so that the compiler is aware of available functions such as SetBit and ClearBit, etc.... So a Simple program to turn on the two KFLOP Relay Driver Outputs would be:

#include "KMotionDef.h"

main()
{
    SetBitDirection(0,1);  //set as output
    SetBitDirection(1,1);  //set as output

    SetBit(0);  // turn output on
    SetBit(1);  // turn output on
}

JP33 Pin 1-4 is the pins in question.. and i just wire it through them

Yes, connect the Relay+ to the pin that needs to be shorted to GND, and Relay- to the GND that it needs to be shorted to.

Regards

[jossa]

That is very strange. The 5V and GND connections through KFLOP are internal solid copper power planes. Where exactly are you placing the Red and Black Probes of your meter? What connections are you referring to? Did you check your supply (at KFLOP) with these connections made?

i measure both on JP4 pin 1 and 8 and on JP33 pin 7 and 5

JP4 pin 1 and 8 is connected to JP33 pin 7 and 5 that is when i measure 4,4V .. if i disconnect the wires i measure 5V on JP4 pin 1 and 8.

The voltage on the power plug on KFlop stays 5v the entire time

Every KFLOP C Program needs to have a "main" function which is where execution begins. It also needs to include a Header file called KMotionDef.h which contains all the definitions for the compiler so that the compiler is aware of available functions such as SetBit and ClearBit, etc.... So a Simple program to turn on the two KFLOP Relay Driver Outputs would be:

#include "KMotionDef.h"

main()
{
    SetBitDirection(0,1);  //set as output
    SetBitDirection(1,1);  //set as output

    SetBit(0);  // turn output on
    SetBit(1);  // turn output on
}

ok, but in that code, how do i set it high? is that the "SetBit(0)"? and replacing it with ClearBit(0); would set it as low?

and could i measure this change in state with a ohm meter/continuity tester?

if so, something is wrong, because i am not detecting any change in state


Yes, connect the Relay+ to the pin that needs to be shorted to GND, and Relay- to the GND that it needs to be shorted to.

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

i measure both on JP4 pin 1 and 8 and on JP33 pin 7 and 5

JP4 pin 1 and 8 is connected to JP33 pin 7 and 5 that is when i measure 4,4V .. if i disconnect the wires i measure 5V on JP4 pin 1 and 8.

The voltage on the power plug on KFlop stays 5v the entire time

Heh heh, I'm willing to bet you miss-counted JP4 pin 8

Nearby IO pins on JP4 have 150ohm pull down resistors to GND which would act like a very weak GND connection. In fact the Analog Load of ~1Kohm would cause the 150ohm to have a ~0.6V drop which is exactly what you observe.

1K/(1K +150) x 5V = 4.35V

ok, but in that code, how do i set it high? is that the "SetBit(0)"? and replacing it with ClearBit(0); would set it as low?

Correct

and could i measure this change in state with a ohm meter/continuity tester?

if so, something is wrong, because i am not detecting any change in state

No you can't normally use an ohm meter for something like this. As shown in the schematic it is basically a Darlington Transistor which takes a good fraction of a volt before it will begin conducting. An ohm meter is not likely to apply this much voltage for it's test.

Regards

[jossa]

Heh heh, I'm willing to bet you miss-counted JP4 pin 8

Nearby IO pins on JP4 have 150ohm pull down resistors to GND which would act like a very weak GND connection. In fact the Analog Load of ~1Kohm would cause the 150ohm to have a ~0.6V drop which is exactly what you observe.

1K/(1K +150) x 5V = 4.35V

DOH! could it be that simple?..

Correct

No you can't normally use an ohm meter for something like this. As shown in the schematic it is basically a Darlington Transistor which takes a good fraction of a volt before it will begin conducting. An ohm meter is not likely to apply this much voltage for it's test.

maybe if i wire up a led and a resistor, run it on 5v and trough the "relay" it would indicate?


but when i confirm all of this, how do i program everything into a file?

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

maybe if i wire up a led and a resistor, run it on 5v and trough the "relay" it would indicate?

Yes that should work. Or just a resistor and measure the voltage across the resistor.

You will also want to determine the relationship between analog output voltage and RPM.

Are you planning to use KMotionCNC or Mach3?

Regards

[jossa]

Yes that should work. Or just a resistor and measure the voltage across the resistor.
uum, maybe a stupid question, but how large a resistor should i use?


You will also want to determine the relationship between analog output voltage and RPM.

0V = 400RPM on motor = xxx RPM on spindle
5V = 3600RPM on motor = xxxx RPM on spindle

the spindle rpm i need to calculate, but i don't have the specific diameter here.. but that can be



Are you planning to use KMotionCNC or Mach3?

i don't know yet.. KMotionCNC looks simple in a good way, where mach3 is a little bit to much circus with colors and a slightly chaotic layout.. mach4 looks much better tho!
but everyone is using mach3,, maybe because of the extensions and plugins you can add to it? (and the price)

is it much work to make it run with both programs so i can test both? if KMotionCNC does what i need i would use that i think

[jossa]

i found the invoice for the pulley and calculated the speed.


0V = 400RPM on motor = 282.52 RPM on spindle
5V = 3600RPM on motor = 2542.70 RPM on spindle


tada!

[TomKerekes]

Hi jossa,

uum, maybe a stupid question, but how large a resistor should i use?

With a 5V supply a 470 Ohm resistor would limit the current to ~10milliamps


For KMotionCNC there is an example C Program that can be used. Configure KmotionCNC | Tool Setup | S | Exec Prog for this program using Thread #2 and to pass the Speed in Var #1.

C:\KMotion433f\C Programs\KStep\KMotionCNC\Spindle_S_Kstep.c

How good is your math? See if you can change the calculations for your 400 RPM offset from zero.

Regards

[jossa]

thanks! ... forgot about ohms law there..

How good is your math? See if you can change the calculations for your 400 RPM offset from zero.

eem.. i am already stuck.. i don't know what i am looking at..
i can't see anything in the Spindle_S_Kstep.c file that has anything to do with my spinle speed... am i on the wrong file?

#include "KMotionDef.h"
#include "..\CorrectAnalogFunction.c"

#define RPM_FACTOR 500.0 // RPM for full duty cycle (max analog out)

// desired speed is passed in variable 1


main()
{
float speed = *(float *)&persist.UserData[1]; // value stored is actually a float

FPGA(KAN_TRIG_REG)=4; // Mux PWM0 to JP7 Pin5 IO 44 for KSTEP
SetBitDirection(44,1); // define bit as an output
FPGA(IO_PWMS_PRESCALE) = 46; // divide clock by 46 (1.4 KHz)
FPGA(IO_PWMS+1) = 1; // Enable

FPGA(IO_PWMS) = CorrectAnalog(speed/RPM_FACTOR); // Set PWM
}

and BTW i suck at math...