[TbcSEOD]

I recently picked up a 1982/83 CNC Lathe that came out of a R&D lab with low hours. The issue with it (currently) is it is tape loaded and I need to bypass the tape reader so I can load codes direct from a PC.

Problem is I don't know much about tape readers or options for bypassing them, I'm reading up on them but its rather confusing to the uneducated so I am hoping someone here might be able to point me in the right direction or offer suggestions that they (or others) have used before. I have retro fitted a few machines but they were ground up and not just bypassing something like a reader, so I am not to shy about getting in and splicing wires, running new cables and that sort of work. My understanding at the time I bought the machine was it was in good working condition, that being as it is I would like to keep the control system in it verses gutting and reworking form the ground up. (though I do not care to keep the reader - if there is a easy cheap way to bypass it that results in its removal/loss of use I am not opposed to that at all)

Cost is a factor at this point - so cheaper solutions are better in that regard but I am open to any and all solutions/ suggestions or help that can get me from point A to point B (Having a machine that I can load/drip codes to without the use of the tape reader). I was able to locate this one : http://www.adrco.com/GE10HLX.htm and have read good things about ADRCO but, again, the price makes it prohibitive at this point.

Thanks in advance,
~Terry S
HBA

[Al_The_Man]

What control? make/model?
A tape reader is a parallel device which usually requires a BTR, Behind the Tape Reader for RS232 input.
But the machine may have it already depending on the make.
Oh I see it is a GE1050, so that may require a BTR as not many had RS232.
That is an old control,(pre GE-Fanuc)
Al.

[TbcSEOD]

Correct, it has a GE 1050HLX controller - I am hoping to look into the back side of the reader this evening, and will hopefully be able to determine what sort of connectors are back there.

Ok, I decided it best to go out now and look (after I looked up what a RS232 connector looks like), on the face of the reader there is what appears to be a female 25 pin (basically the same as the one here: http://www.atarimagazines.com/comput.../3705Fig03.JPG )

Inside on the back of that plug a ribbon cable runs to a board and then that board has a cable that runs to another female DB25 plug where a large round cable comes down out from the main cabinet. The large round cable (guessing it runs to the controller?) has a male DB25 plug on it with 11 pins in it............

From what I am reading (if i am understanding right) this sounds like a good thing? (that it has these DB25 / RS232? plugs in it)

~T
HBA

[TbcSEOD]

I disconnected the plug on the main cable (that runs into the control cabinet) and the pins are numbered left to right on both top and bottom. The pins are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 12, 20, 21, 23 - not sure if what pins are present matter but I figured I would list them). Also the only thing I can find on the reader is on the front cover and it indicates "General Electric 150 CPS reeler, 3N3200TR104B1"

~Terry
HBA

[Al_The_Man]

The problem is that a reader is a parallel device and RS232 is serial, as per the link in your 1st post, it shows a BTR, which essentially uses the parallel interface and converts it to serial.
In the GE1050, they most likely used the 25pin for parallel port, the later systems used the 25p D connector for the serial transmission.
Al.

[TbcSEOD]

I have been doing a lot of reading today on all of this (its 3:20 in the morning if that's any clue as to how much reading). And I found a manual for the reader and it is in fact parallel into the circuit board on the back of the reader and then serial output form that board up the "main cable". Also I am not 100 sure that the link I listed in the 1st post is to my exact system configuration. I was basing it off the fact that my controller is a 1050HLX and not off what type of reader I had, now I am starting to understand the need for a BTR might be more based off the reader rather than the controller? (I hope that made sense)

I guess my confusion now lies in why a personal computer could not be hooked in to one or the other of the lines to feed the data into the controller? Again, I do not know how most of what I am reading actually works so the cause for my confusion may be self evident/transparent to a person who understands how these things work, but couldn't a serial PC port (I am saying serial as the data output to the controller is to my understanding serial in nature) feed the controller the data directly using some sort of DNC software as a flow controller or is it more complex than simply patching the PC port to the controller cable? I also found a pin assignment chart for the controller cable (the one that runs out of the main cabinet to the reader - or at least that is my understanding of what this cable pin diagram is of.......... Again, I appreciate any and all help that is offered.

Cheers,
~Terry

[Al_The_Man]

If in fact the reader is converted to serial, it depends on whether it is RS232 or not, which is required for use with a PC, if it is RS232 it would then be a case of trying to decifer which pins are which.
Unfortunately I scrapped all the info I had on the GE1050 as there are not that many around anymore, not around here at least.
Al.

[TbcSEOD]

Just wanting to update some on this thread (in case others come along and find it trying to do the same as me).

The GE1050HLX control cable is serial/rs232 compatible, I currently have a hand made cable between it (where it plugged into the UART card) and a old PC and have managed to get hand entered code OUT of the machine but I seem to be hitting a road block when it comes to getting data into the machine. I've contacted 2 different BTR companies and both have responded that a BTR is not needed for this control (they could have said, yeap - we can sell you a BTR and taken the cash but they didn't so I kindda have to give them some credit and believe that the system really didn't need a BTR)...

One of the companies sells interfaces that you can use a flash disk to input programs that "might" work with the 1050hlx but the service tech that has been helping me along is looking in to if it will work for sure or not (and as such he might be able to tell me why the old PC I have hooked up can get data out but not into the machine............)

I'll post up the end solution once i have it all "up and running", again, its nothing earth shattering but in my searches I have found a number of threads/post on various sites of people that have traveled this road before but none posted what they ended up using/doing to get it working so hopefully this thread can help someone in the future who is traveling this same 1050HLX path.

~T

[gridley51]

I`ve got a 1050 HLX.We just programme at the machine.I have something somewhere on communications with this but need to look for it.
Dan Fritz is a certainty to know what to do here but doesn`t seem to be about as much as he used to be.

[TbcSEOD]

Any information/assistance would be greatly appreciated - I received a few books with the machine and was told it was a complete set of manuals but its becoming obvious that it isn't a "complete set" as I have no information regarding the MSD settings (what each spot means or anything) or the GBIT (I think that's what the other screen is called)..........

Unfortunately I can't seem to locate any resources online regarding the manuals or copies of them........ None the less - any and all assistance or advice from anyone/anywhere would be greatly appreciated

~T

[gridley51]

Unfortunately you don`t mention the make or model of your machine.The GBIT? are on the electrical drawings produced by the machine builder.MSD settings are also decided by the machine builder but can be changed by the user.MSD settings are logical so it`s easy to look at them and see what they are or if any are clearly wrong.Only ones you can`t change are the canned cycles but there`s not a lot of them in a 1050 anyway.
The only niggle I have with the 1050 is the battery life of 32 hours or so depending upon how much memory you have.Ok,they`re rechargeable but you still have to type in thirty parameters every time you lose them.

[TbcSEOD]

The GBIT? are on the electrical drawings produced by the machine builder.MSD settings are also decided by the machine builder but can be changed by the user.

That, I did not know.......... I assumed they were standardized (That function setting in line 1 on one machine was the same function on the next one

The machine I have is a 1982 MOOG MTC2 (TURNEX) lathe - I can not find much (any) info about them online anywhere, tough I was told that they were mostly manufactured for R&D work and most went to military contractor type companies.

~T

[gridley51]

Sorry,not had time to look for any info yet.Moog is now known as MHP but I doubt it will be the same company.
Does your machine have ballscrews or hydraulic cylinders for axis movement?
Young guys,don`t laugh at that question.A few machine builders used hydraulics in the early days of cnc.
Mark.

[TbcSEOD]

Sorry,not had time to look for any info yet.Moog is now known as MHP but I doubt it will be the same company.
Does your machine have ballscrews or hydraulic cylinders for axis movement?
Young guys,don`t laugh at that question.A few machine builders used hydraulics in the early days of cnc.
Mark.

Hi Mark, no worries on the delay, its hard to rush someone who is willing to try and help another person out.

The Turnex2 that I have is a ballscrew set up.

~Terry

[vmgr]

Just wanting to update some on this thread (in case others come along and find it trying to do the same as me).

The GE1050HLX control cable is serial/rs232 compatible, I currently have a hand made cable between it (where it plugged into the UART card) and a old PC and have managed to get hand entered code OUT of the machine but I seem to be hitting a road block when it comes to getting data into the machine. I've contacted 2 different BTR companies and both have responded that a BTR is not needed for this control (they could have said, yeap - we can sell you a BTR and taken the cash but they didn't so I kindda have to give them some credit and believe that the system really didn't need a BTR)...

One of the companies sells interfaces that you can use a flash disk to input programs that "might" work with the 1050hlx but the service tech that has been helping me along is looking in to if it will work for sure or not (and as such he might be able to tell me why the old PC I have hooked up can get data out but not into the machine............)

I'll post up the end solution once i have it all "up and running", again, its nothing earth shattering but in my searches I have found a number of threads/post on various sites of people that have traveled this road before but none posted what they ended up using/doing to get it working so hopefully this thread can help someone in the future who is traveling this same 1050HLX path.

~T

did you ever find a solution? as I have same problem

[vmgr]

does anyone know an electronics tech that can do some work on a ge1050hlx control , I have a reader problem and am trying to bypass reader with a advanced digital research ami board,and can not get a signal through reader to the control

[shoplink]

SOME INFO FROM MY LEGACY NOTES REGARDING, CONTACT ME IF YOU LIKE
Highland DNC, LLC. AND I CAN HELP YOU FIGURE OUT MORE.

PARAMETERS FOR THE GE 1050 HLX SERIES CONTROL WITH CRT

CABLE
HUB PORT 1 CONTROL

2 RED 3
3 WHITE 2
7 BLACK 7
ON CONTROL 21 TO 22
ON CONTROL 23 TO 24


SHOPLINK HUB PARAMETERS

CNC PROTOCALS
DOWN O = XON/XOFF NO DC1 W 20 SEC TOUT
UP A = BASIC PROTOCAL
PARITY
DOWN A = ASCII EVEN PARITY
UP A = ASCII EVEN PARITY
BAUD 1200 BAUD
STOP BITS 1
LEADER TRAILER SENT TO CNC N
ASCII NULLS SENT TO CNC Y
COMMENTS STRIPPED N


CONTROL PARAMETERS

PARAMETER 29

DIGIT 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

* * ? * * * * *


? = 0 PORT 1 LOAD AND PUNCH

THE BAUD RATE OF THE CONTROL IS SET BY THE JUMPERS ON PORT 1
21 TO 22 AND 23 TO 24 ARE FOR 1200 BAUD. THE JUMPERS ON THE
DB 25 OVERRIDE ANY SOFTWARE SET PARAMETERS IN THE CONTROL.
TO CHANGE SOFTWARE PARAMETERS REFER TO THE MANUAL UNDER
THE TITLE OF MACHINE SETUP DATA.

[gm3211]

The port on the machine that is DB25 is a facit punch port for outputting programs. This is why you can get data out but to load the machine, you will need the BTR.

What price do you expect to pay to interface the older controller to a newer PC and operate?

As a dealer for ADR boards, I am willing to help on price but I think there needs to be some expectation on what it would take to interface the machine.

[TbcSEOD]

did you ever find a solution? as I have same problem

Wow, I never seen a notice that this had been asked - I did find a work around - was actually pretty easy. A few cables and gender benders and I was able to hook my old desk top directly into the cable that runs to the tape reader......... Its been a few years back now and I could have SWORN I posted the way I did it here but I must have posted it elsewhere......

VMGR, if you or anyone else has one of these old beasts and needs the way I plugged into it then please message me and I'll get some notes made and verify what cables/benders I used and get something posted up for prosperity's sake.

~T

[TbcSEOD]

did you ever find a solution? as I have same problem

Attached are pictures of the work around I used starting with cable #192 that runs from the back of the tape reader to the control/memory. Using the PC I run the code into the memory the same as the tape would only from a different source.

Cable 192 to a D25 to cat5 gender bender - cat5 cable to a cat5 to serial gender bender and into the back of the PC via the serial port.
I'm using "Connect cnc" (configured to my moog machine) to handle the actual data transfer though the cat5 cable.

Attachment 268874

Attachment 268876

Attachment 268878