[DieGuy]

You got mail!

This looks real doable in a stamping die, but the tooling cost may be an issue. Some simple prototype, low volume tooling may work for a very low production run in combination with some CNC machining but a real production run of these will require production tooling over and above the prototype tooling. I have done some prototyping in oak for forming dies, but generally they don't last a long time, tend to not make crisp bends and are really not suitable for draw forming any thing but a few parts.

If you have prototyped this part then you should have a good feeling about the production aspects.

[dsptony]

I read that a long time ago people decided that everything had been invented (1800s). If you were a young fella wanting to be an inventer when you grew up then this may have been discouraging to hear. We know now that much has been invented since then, yet today people say we are reaching the limits and that not much more can be invented.

Its because inventing is hard. If it was easy anyone would do it. It takes luck, some smarts and perserverance. People will always find excuses not to do things and grumble about there tough lot in life or their limits. People always have and people always will.

Running a company is hard. It may seem that things are stacked against you but it is the same for everyone. The guy in the competing company has problems too, mybe different ones but it is hard for him to survive as well.

People talk about wanting a level playing field, the field never has been level and never will be. I dont think the answer is tarrifs or only hiring "your own" (that only postpones the inevitable and will hurt your local companies long term) or doing things to isolate yourself from the market you want to be in.

The answer is to be wise enough to compete, even in an unfair market.
Problems are only ever your own, your attidude to them can make them good, or bad.

Happy with my lot in life, (bit of a wishy woshy post but I hope you get what I mean, I am not critising anyone, just saying what I see in the many many companies that are doing well)
Tony.

[miljnor]

I don't know what’s critical on this part but whoever is telling you it’s too hard to manufacture cheaply is unimaginative at best (and I can think of less flattering thins to say).

But if you looking for prototypes and you are willing to change small aspects of this then a sheet metal fabricator with a laser for cut quality and some automated stamping machines would get the thin sheet mettle stuff done.

As far as the arrow looking pieces (don't know the material) but if you machine them from a solid piece all at one time from the pointed end then flip them over and hold them in a hydraulic pressure equalizing vise, you could machine the back side (flat side) and all the pieces would then be complete.

I don't really see a problem other than a lack of will and no imagination.

[snapman]

Okay, I sounded a bit whiny last night...make that a LOT whiny last night. What has become apparent to me is that I have not worked hard enough at finding the best solution. All of the responses have demonstrated that above all else. Maybe I just needed a little shaking up to stop spinning around in useless circles, so thanks for that.

One thing is for certain- I will be posting more questions. Its great to hear opinions and advice from the people who KNOW about manufacturing- and even though this is a machining board- you guys make the tools for the other manufacturers so in my opinion you have all bases covered as far as best process for a given goal.

For now- I am just happy that my mistakes have been pointed out and I have been shown a different point of view- its a positive step. The financial guys that are backing this...they hear a manufacturer say its complicated...even just one...and orrifices pucker immediately. That in turn starts me second guessing (I am no expert, I just believe what I can see/do over what someone says is or isn't possible- but I'm human and sometimes the doubt gets in despite my best efforts)

But...now I know its just a matter of keeping at it.

Much appreciation for the comments. You guys rule!

[snapman]

Jeez, I am posting a lot of stuff lately. As for this assembly- I don't see it as a machined part and didn't mean to imply that. The prototypes were machined by local shops and eventually by myself. Final product, due to customer requirements for plating, will more than likely be a zinc diecast for the main housing with the rest of the parts stamped and the little buggers in the middle (715-9201 in the print) cold rolled and chopped to length. This particular version would be making its home on handbags, portfolios, agendas, etc. so appearance is important on the parts that show- and not very important on the parts that don't. My concern with stamping the main housing- 716-0300- is that once plated and mounted (the sharp points get bent outward to mount easily, securely, and for the most part permenantly) the plating will flake off the bent portions and eventually the flaking would make its way to being visible. A few calls to local platers confirmed this could happen although it probably would not. I don't want to chance my customers customers finding out it does.

The final version is actually a simplified version of what I posted. The people that have seen it just see that parts, see that it is more complicated than a magnetic clasp/snap/whatever and tell me it is too complicated and expensive to make. Since I have been dealing with companies that make buckles, snaps, clasps as their main focus, I figured they must know best. But when I have recieved quotes on some of the individual components from companies who do a variety of things springs, stampings, wire forming, etc....the prices have been very reasonable in my opinion. Tooling for the whole thing was under 25 grand and price per part a few cents. That was for everything stamped. I don't know how much more expensive a die cast piece would be in place of the complicated drawn part (716-0300) which was to date the most expensive as far as tooling- over ten grand. The quantities were from 2500 for the first run or two, on up to 100,000. If this thing were to catch on it may be ordered in those quantities. The small orders were to send out as samples. Right now I spend almost all of my time making the samples and not a lot on other things that are also needed.

I think I should have asked you guys earlier about this. More and more I think I like the idea of the parts being made by people that make the particular type of part (stamping, die cast, etc) and then have the parts shipped here for assembly.

Attached are two picks of my baby in action and one that is not mounted but shows what it looks like. Basically just a very secure, easy to use, adjustable snap.

Thanks again for all the advice and feedback.

Cheers,
Ryan

[ViperTX]

I would think stamping would be the way to go....you'll have to temper it once it is stamped to put some spring into it.....it appears that this part needs to expand and I didn't see a hinge...I don't believe that cast parts can be as springy as you need.

The 801-4200 should be a stamped part....I would look at using stainless.

[MBG]

well either the economy going good or bad to this stuff I just got laid off due to delphi going bankrupt.... :\... now I really don't have anywhere to go

I am having 2nd thoughts on getting this manufacturing industry.... I am still young yet I can go to another industry but I dont know....

[snapman]

Sorry to hear about your job. That is a tough thing to go through. I have read a lot of your previous posts regarding your starting a small shop at your home...while it may be small concolation at this point- our local machine shops are always swamped. Always. Even the shops they turn to to help them out are busy as all hell. Maybe this will turn into an opportunity for you to focus on your shop while you look for another gig. Ask some local shops if they need some help with orders. Maybe in time you won't need to worry about finding that other gig.

Peace,
Ryan

[mechanical]

well either the economy going good or bad to this stuff I just got laid off due to delphi going bankrupt.... :\... now I really don't have anywhere to go

I am having 2nd thoughts on getting this manufacturing industry.... I am still young yet I can go to another industry but I dont know....

Sorry about your job MBG. Speaking from experience don't let it get you down, you will come out ok when the dust settles down.

[Evodyne]

well either the economy going good or bad to this stuff I just got laid off due to delphi going bankrupt.... :\... now I really don't have anywhere to go

I am having 2nd thoughts on getting this manufacturing industry.... I am still young yet I can go to another industry but I dont know....

MBG,

Hang in their. Been through what your experiencing now a couple of times-it's never fun, or easy, but each time I've landed on my feet, if that helps. I tend to agree with snapman's post. Yeah, there are bills, so you need to get something...but at the same time really try to figure out if the home shop can fly. I know a fellow who lost his job five months ago. He dabbled in making websites as a hobby. Now he's doing it full time out of his house and making ends meet-with a wife and two kids. He never would have pursued it except he had no other choice. Now he laughs at me every time we talk-teases me about having to get up and go to work every day.

Keep your chin up!

Evo

[MBG]

thanks guys!