[geoffw]

In the market for an entry level CNC mill.

Iam in Las Vegas where there is virtually no manufacturing, so Iam limited to a few local machines or pay a huge amount for freight/rigging.

Just trying to get some opinions on this machine:

Fadal CNC Milling Machine 3016 4th Axis Ready | eBay


Owner will take $14k with Vises & Some tooling or $16k with Vises, Tooling and 4th axis.

The machine works fine and is used every day but its not in excellent condition by any means as you can see from the pictures.

Should I bite or be patient and try to find a better condition machine or better deal?

Thanks,
-Geoff

[ifixcnc]

Will you have real 3 phase power?

[geoffw]

Yes. We have many other machines(cnc mandrel benders, cnc plasma & waterjet, cnc pressbrake..). I've got 800 amps of 480 and plenty of transformers down to 208.

[ifixcnc]

It seems like the condition is not bad. If the spindle is as good as he says, and the backlash is small I would say its not bad for a starter machine. Check the completed listings on Ebay to gauge the price.

[geoffw]

Its either this machine or a 1996 Haas VF3 in decent shape, however, no tooling or vices for $20,000.

Im not sure which way to go. Are the brushless servos, larger table, extra torque, and slower spindle (7500) worth an additional $6k?



As far as completed listings go, everyone seems to want way too much for their machines....I don't get it.

-Geoff

[ifixcnc]

Are the brushless servos, larger table, extra torque, and slower spindle (7500) worth an additional $6k?

That all depends on the work that you intend on doing.

Machines are expensive.

Look at the cost of new and you may feel better.

All the best!

[geoffw]

I think the cost of new Haas machines is very reasonable and plan on buying a brand new one in a couple years, but Id rather learn on an older used machine that doesnt have a loan on it.

We will be machining 90% Aluminum and 10% Steel.

-Geoff

[motionman]

The price seems very fair for the machine. In my opinion, and I work on a LOT of them, If buying a sub 20K VMC you cant go wrong with a Fadal. The parts availability is outstanding, and the parts are very inexpensive compared to other makes. The technology did not change much over the life of the CNC 88 control and it is very robust. Simple to work on Mechanically as well as electrically.

I hope this helps

[carbidecraters]

That's a smoking deal if the machine is in good shape. In 1996 it would be a AC servo 700ipm rapids maybe even 900 on Z. Although that may have came in 97 or 98. The Haas will not give you the same performance as that little 3016 which is arguably the stoutest machine Fadal ever made (Besides the performance series 3016FX or the 50taper 6535).

[geoffw]

I got the seller down to $12500 cash so Im leaning in that direction.

Ive heard the Fadal machines are better than the Haas of that era. True?

Is there any reason to be conerned with the missing paint on the tool changer and the back wall of the enclosure?

[slowlearner]

$12,500 in Vegas ? You better snatch it quick. The missing paint only indicates it has been used.

[warrenb]

I have 2 fadals. A 2003 and 2002. My mold maker buddies are ALWAYS in the market for old Fadals. Some have 1992 and earlier. They all run great. For some reason they seem to be popular for the mold makers. I use mine for prototyping and production. Nothing heavy. Both are rock solid. You can get next day parts and support from I-T-S and a couple other of the original engineers in Southern California. If you can score that fadal for <20k with tooling and vises I would get it. Fadal has a cult like following. Plus, there are people out there developing plug and play upgrades that will turn the machine in to a high speed milling beast.

The best bet is to take over your indicators and check for backlash on the ball screws and the spindle bearings. If everything is good get it.

Good luck.

[motionman]

The best bet is to take over your indicators and check for backlash on the ball screws and the spindle bearings. If everything is good get it.

Good luck.

Even if there is a problem they are cheap to fix. Thrust bearings Mori Seiki 1000.00 Fadal 90.00

[WelderHank]

I went over and looked at this machine and did back lash checks.. He has .0003 thou in the x, .003 in the y and about .0005 in the z as offsets. Doing basic lash testing showed that it needed another .007 in the x another .011 in the y and .006 in the Z. Technically you can just do the BL offsets in the X and the Z, but you can't do more than 6 in software so at a value of 60(.0070) in BL compensation. I did a 1" pocket and you could feel the steps with your fingers, and see it with your eyes. My home built CNC router table with gear drives makes better circles.

Had a couple of tool change errors when I was running some simple programs.

Hasn't had coolant in it for a while, and used a garden hose when I did the sample cuts. The 4020 behind him is has had the garden hose on it for a while but not cleaned up for pictures... It looked rough.

The ways were pretty rough too, which isn't surprising as the low oil warning alarms were coming on for the ways and spindles.

Personally, I'd stay away unless you want a mega project. I pitched a offer based off a Y screw and thrust replacement and needing to look into the clunk on the Z axis that sounds like the clunk. He wasn't even going that low saying he would keep it. I looked at the 4th, but showing people parts with the cover plates on them doesn't lend too much confidence. If the shop was any reflection of the machine, that machine could get expensive fast. Unless you could get this thing for sub 10, I think there are better machines in SoCAL even after the 1000$ to get them to Vegas. Even at 10, it would be hard to beat a nice 13-14 non rigid tap machine in socal if you value your time at all.

Hope that helps

[geoffw]

WOW! That really saves my ass.....I owe you one!

We decided just to buy a brand new Haas VF2. They deals they are running right now make them an unbeatable bargain considering I wont have any headaches other than a payment.