[digits]

Hi, I know this is a really newbie question, but it's one I have to ask anyway!

I am having trouble chaning between my drill and collet chucks on my new X-1 as the arbors (I think that's the word) are nearly impossible to remove from the spindle. It literally took me 10 mins of hammering on the drawbar (while supporting the spindle) to release the chuck this morning, and I am worried that even with a non-metallic faced hammer, I risk killing my spindle bearings.

As the chucks are easy to insert and secure via screw pressure, I was wondering if anyone had modified their X1 to allow the tapers to be forced out via a screwing motion? Or is there a simple tool I can make to help extract the chuck?

[pastera]

You can make a captured draw bar but I have never had any issues with a stuck taper. I release my tapers with a hand held 1.25" diameter x 2" long piece of brass - I'm not hitting hard. You don't need a lot of torque on the drawbar.

One trick - are you locking the quill? if you don't the quill will just bounce and you have to beat the h#ll out of it to release the taper. Try lowering the quill fully or use the fine feed to lock it fully raised.

Aaron

[digits]

You can make a captured draw bar but I have never had any issues with a stuck taper. I release my tapers with a hand held 1.25" diameter x 2" long piece of brass - I'm not hitting hard. You don't need a lot of torque on the drawbar.

One trick - are you locking the quill? if you don't the quill will just bounce and you have to beat the h#ll out of it to release the taper. Try lowering the quill fully or use the fine feed to lock it fully raised.

Aaron

I didn't think I was over tightening the drawbar, but I have a feeling that tightening up the collet-chuck's nut to retain the collets is actually tightening the draw bar as well.

I did remember to lock the quill, though I'm worried about damaging the locking pin - it does seem to take a lot of force to shift a stuck taper - the end of my plastic faced hammer is looking pretty mashed.

I did a quick Google, and it seems that MT2 is well known for being sticky. I'd really like some way of forcing the draw taper out by screw pressure - I guess I'll have to put my thinking hat on

[barney9014]

I would say make some flats on the chuck. That's what I did to allow tightning without jambing the taper. I have two collets chucks. One that did not have flats on it and the other had flats. The flats allow a wrench for tightning. Jim

[pastera]

Make a new drawbar with a large flange (>>larger than the wrench flats)
Make a plate to bolt to the spindle housing over the draw bar that limits the drawbar travel out of the spindle (the wrench flats can pass but the flange can't)
You can then simply unscrew the drawbar and it will push the taper out.

Aaron

[digits]

Make a new drawbar with a large flange (>>larger than the wrench flats)
Make a plate to bolt to the spindle housing over the draw bar that limits the drawbar travel out of the spindle (the wrench flats can pass but the flange can't)
You can then simply unscrew the drawbar and it will push the taper out.

Aaron

:cheers: What a simple fix - looking at the original drawbar, it should work fine - I just need to modify the mill-lid

Now if only I had a machine which could cut accurate holes in metal

[gmfoster]

I didn't think I was over tightening the drawbar, but I have a feeling that tightening up the collet-chuck's nut to retain the collets is actually tightening the draw bar as well.

I did remember to lock the quill, though I'm worried about damaging the locking pin - it does seem to take a lot of force to shift a stuck taper - the end of my plastic faced hammer is looking pretty mashed.

I did a quick Google, and it seems that MT2 is well known for being sticky. I'd really like some way of forcing the draw taper out by screw pressure - I guess I'll have to put my thinking hat on

The statement about your plastic hammer tells it all. You don't want a plastic hammer, you want a metal hammer that is soft enough not to damage the draw bar. And the trick is you use a hammer heavy enough to losen the draw bar with one smack. And hit it don't tap it. It is the shock that losens the MT2. Morse tapers aren't self releasing as some other tapers are. Also be sure you don't over tighten the drawbar. The draw bar is to keep the collet from falling out not to keep it from spinning. Drill chucks use morse tapers and you just smack them in they don't have a draw bar at all. Contrary to wnat many think a press can easily do as much damage as impact. Just ask the drive shaft in the basement I ruined by trying to press the ujoints out of. Bought another from the junkyard and used the hammer as I always had before and didn't ruin the yoke this time.

But the thiing is people have been using MT2 tapers for years and knocking them out with a hammer. Now you don't want to use a sledge but if you don't overtighten and don't tap, tap or use a big hammer it really isn't a problem...

Also MT2 are no more sticky than MT3 oe MT4, they all have the same basic angle..


Garry

[Pres]

fwiw: on my X1 I always grab the spindle/MT2collet/tool with a rag in one hand and use a wrench with the other hand to loosen the draw bar, about 1-2 revs.
Then, while still supporting the spindle with my 'rag hand', grab a brass hammer and (lightly) whack the top of the draw bar. The sharp impact is really what loosens it.
Once the MT2 collet is free I can use my fingers to spin the draw bar out the rest of the way (assuming I need to change the MT2 collet).

Installing a MT2 collet does not require alot of torque.
Just snuggly & firm(what ever that means?). Say 5-10ft/lb.

It is helpful to keep the MT2 collets clean (& spindle bore- just spin a shop towel in there to wipe out any chips/dirt) and keep both lightly oiled (like WD-40).
Also, put a bit heavier oil on the end of the draw bar thread -helps make it thread easier.

The suggestion to put some flats on your secondary collet (collet chuck-ER25?) holder is a good idea to minimize wrenching down the draw bar too much.

I never considered using an ER-25 collet chuck assy because of the extra spindle length just caused more tool deflection -on an already fragile spindle assembly.
I just use a variety of MT2 collets (1/16"-1/2")

Good luck,
Pres

[dcprecision]

This has probably been considered but here goes.. Make sure that the spindle taper is absolutly clean and free of any shipping cosmoline, use a bit of solvent.. After cleaning the taper and collet use just a small wipe of light oil on both.. and dont over torque.... I use inexpensive 3/8 drive air rachet wrenches on my drawbars with controlled air pressure for repeatably consistent uniform torque.

[S_J_H]

I use inexpensive 3/8 drive air rachet wrenches on my drawbars with controlled air pressure for repeatably consistent uniform torque.

I'll surely not disagree with your method. I will say you have much more patience than I!:cheers:

I'll grab a steel hammer and a sharp single blow. If that don't loosen it I'll go and yell at myself for over tightening the darn thing.
:stickpoke
Steve

[itsme]

Hi there,

When I first got my X1, I used to put a piece of wood between the hammer and the drawbar to protect it. After a couple of weeks, I dumped the wood and just used the hammer straight onto the drawbar. When I was using the wood as 'protection', I found that it required repeated, heavy blows, whereas just using the hammer released it with a single, lighter blow. The wood was compressing and acts like a damper - possibly what your plastic hammer is doing.

I have been using a hammer for over a year now and there are no significant signs of wear.

Regards
Warren

[dcprecision]

A combination draw bar wrench and brass striking hammer is available from many machine tooling suppliers. Th air wrenches are very fast when properly hanging nearby for quick access.

[digits]

Wow, thanks for all the tips guys :cheers:

I did a lot of milling yesterday (none of it sucessful, but that's another story!) and this time I was very careful to grip the collet-holder while tightening it up so as not to tighten against the drawbar.

I left the holder in overnight and just had a go at removing it - the drawbar was only hand-tight and the collet-holder came out with a light tap from the alloy-end of my hammer

[handlewanker]

Hi, just another two pennoth worth, when I worked in UK we had a Bridgeport mill with 3MT taper. Some of the guys used to tighten the drawbar so tight we once had to dismantle the quill to get the taper out.
To cure this we made the end of the drawbar terminate in a knurled round hand wheel 2 1/2" diam so they couldn't get a spanner on it. Cured the problem and the taper still held in tight with hand force only.
Now I am rebuilding a small vertical mill and the spindle taper will be R8, wild horses wouldn't get me to use MT3.
Cutters go straight into the R8 collets and do not require a chuck, giving me more spindle to table height.
Ian.