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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    249

    Haas GR510 problems?

    Hello everyone,
    I just recieved word from the owner that we have purchased a brand new GR-510 gantry router. I am looking for any input as to any problems that anyone may have incurred from such a beast. It is due to arrive in the next couple of weeks and any help is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1650
    Wow, a brand new machine and you're expecting problems already? Give it a chance.

    I'll be curious to watch this thread. I'm actually trying to talk my 'day job' employer into buying a GR512 or GR712 with the 'extended Z' option.

    I finally heard of a local guy who has been successful at using one to mill, drill and tap large aluminum plates. It's no powerhouse and it will only hold tolerance when used within its limits (due to flex in such a large but lightweight casting) but it's very capable of it.

    What are you guys going to be doing with it? Patterns? Milling? Drilling? Get it with the aluminum table so when enough people screw up, you can just unbolt it and buy a new plate of aluminum, face it and start over.

    I think it's a very cool machine and a lot of capability for the cost.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    249
    Hi Greg,
    I currently have 17 Haas machines under my supervision, and have never even seen a CNC Router. It looks like a really nice machine to have, but I didn't know if anyone out there would say "this machine is a lemon." I will be pre-wiring in the next couple of days and trying to find a spot to put it. Man am I cramped for space. Yes, we do alot of Pattern, Contouring, Drilling, and Tapping and our VF-10 just isn't big enough for some of this larger type work. Too many times, we are setting up jobs in 2-4 setups to complete the job and there seems to be more room for operator error. Hopefully, this machine will eliminate a lot of un-neccesary indicating. Gotta get back to work now.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1650
    With that many machines, you probably don't need to use it as a 'mill' but I really like the extended Z option. One salesman described it as being "about as powerful as a TM-1 with only slightly less rigidity.

    So again, it won't do big hogging but it could be used as a poor man's gantry mill (within limits).

    My 'day job' employer is incredibly cheap and won't invest in any kind of technology. I keep trying to push them into a GR712. We do materials testing, 'proof of concept' models and shop-aid tooling.

    Most of the parts we make are low production (under 50 pieces), loose tolerance (0.005" would be great) but repetitive or complex in shape. The sizes vary greatly and are generally aluminum or plastic. Steel would usually just be drill patterns or pattern cutting from sheet. We'll probably get one shot at a CNC mill in our entire career.

    I figure we could do just about anything if we had an extended-Z axis, GR712. My friend wants a TM-2 (he doesn't think the GR is financially possible or worth the space it will consume).

    With such low numbers, the GR won't make our parts that much faster. I figure the programming time would negate a good portion of the time savings on such lower numbers.

    The big thing for us is that quality would go way up. Right now we lay out sheet metal features with paper patterns, tape measures and Sharpies. Profiles are laid out with a Sharpie and cut out with an abrasive wheel. The final product looks like heck and we waste a lot of time with files and sandpaper trying to make this stuff 'look good'.

    Did you guys get the extended Z or the toolchanger? Are your parts metallic?

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    249
    Greg,
    We do 99.9% as a metal shop. We also do work with all kinds of Plastics, some rubber, micarda and phenolic, brass, bronze, copper, aluminum, titanium, inconnel, carbide. Yes,
    we did get the extended "Z" and a 20 tool carousel for ATC. With steel being the milled material, what would be the recommended "max" depth of cut be? At full cicumference if the tool?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1650
    Wow, I don't know how much steel you could cut on that thing. I would imagine that it wouldn't be much though. I don't think the bed can even support much weight and keep it flat.

    In our application, the only steel it would ever cut would be small stuff, in a vise on one corner of the machine. The guy using it as a gantry mill is doing so with aluminum and he has to nurse it along to hold tolerance.

    Nonetheless, he's got a machine that will machine features in very large plates for only $120K. I don't know any other solutions that can do that.

    You understand the limitations though: it depends on the part. If you're doing milling it might not be so good but if a large part of the job is drilling and tapping, it might be just fine.

    If it were my money and I had to regularly do large pieces of steel, I'd probably look for something more robust ($$$).

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12136
    We have had a GR510 with the raised and extended Z axis for over two years with no problems. Mostly these days it does drilling and tapping in steel parts with some small hole interpolation and the occasional facing cut across the end of 1-1/2" x 3/4" steel flat bar. I have used it for making steel fixtures butit is not really rigid enough for milling steel and cannot take heavy cuts. I described how it does on alumnium compared to a VF machine in this thread:

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22589

    Some of the cuts are with a 3/4" dia. two flute running at 10,000 rpm, 0.28" depth of cut, full width at 100 ipm with no problems except the oscillation I describe in the thread.

    We have the aluminum table which we drilled and tapped for replaceable steel inserts on 4" centers; the table is tapped 9/16" NF and the inserts have a 3/8"-16 thread. This gives much better strength than just tapping the table 3/8"-16 and means a stripped insert can be replaced. We also had coolant splashguards fabricated and run flood coolant with barely any leakage. I can get pictures if you are interested.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    249
    Guys,
    Thanks for all of the input. This was exactly what I was expecting to hear as "problems". I think the Toolroom Mgr. bought this for some heavy cutting and it sounds like we may have some issues. Maybe it's not the "right" machine. Oh well, I will keep you all posted when the machine arrives. Thanks, again,

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    87

    It will be fine!

    We have had a GR-712 now for 2 years without the extended z, but we cut resiten and plastics on ours. The material is usually 1" thick and we run full depth at a minimum of 100ipm. We have the 10 station tool changer, with network and hard drive and the 15,000rpm spindle. We have a vacuum table which holds most of our parts that are over 10" by 10" without moving. We have ridgid tapping and the Renishaw probing. This machine has been a great asset to our quality and quanity as far as production increase.

    We liked it so much that we just got a GR-510 and our averaging 250ipm with 7/16" thick and under materials . These are easy to set-up and train operators!
    We also invested in a TM-2 and this helps with the smaller parts that need work on more than one side, and the indexer is fun to play with!

    All in all I'd say you'll be a happy camper!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    11
    I am considering buying a Haas GR 510 gantry machine.
    We would do primarily aluminum and plastics but need to do some work in Mild steel to justify the purchase.

    We rough most parts out on a waterjet and would use it to clean up the outer profile, remove taper and bring into tolerance when required.
    We would also like to cut pockets in steel plates when necessary.
    Small parts approx 12" x 12" overall size. with pockets approx 3" x 3" and .250 deep. Does this sound reasonable?
    I need to get advice from somebody who really knows rather than a Haas salesperson who replies "no problem".

    We are not a typical machine shop most of our equipment is large flat bed type Waterjet, plasma, and routers. we would like to fixture multiple parts throughout the table for ,maximum effiecency.

    We could go with a machining center but the hass GR would allow us to do some things we currently do on our waterjet (large 2d parts) or routers with the added ability to process steel.

    Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated.

    Thanks

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    12136
    Quote Originally Posted by powerstream View Post
    I am considering buying a Haas GR 510 gantry machine......

    We are not a typical machine shop most of our equipment is large flat bed type Waterjet, plasma, and routers. we would like to fixture multiple parts throughout the table for ,maximum effiecency.

    We could go with a machining center but the hass GR would allow us to do some things we currently do on our waterjet (large 2d parts) or routers with the added ability to process steel.

    Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    You must have read my earlier post. I mentioned I have the raised and extended Z axis and this makes the machine much less rigid at the cutting tool; there is such a long distance of head flapping in the breeze.

    Did you look at the specs for the GR510 with the 5000rpm higher torque spindle. I think this is the machine you could consider with the standard Z height and travel. It will be much much stiffer than my machine and if you have to take slightly longer making smaller cuts than would be possible with a big VF machine you make up for it by having all your setups already spread out on the big table.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    249
    Guys,
    The Machine finally arrived and it has been running for about 2 weeks. It is a really nice looking piece of equipment. It will definitly "open the doors" for some different type of mill work for us. Like I said to my operator - SSWWWWWEEEEEEEEEET.

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