[DOD_don]

AL,

You are so right here. I hear whats your saying.

I looked into the jraco program because of the Galil card. One of the guys at Sandia has it, but he doesn't like it and said he wouldn't really recommend it. I looked into it and found out a few things I can share.

They do have a Mill program so far up to 4 axis, no Lathe or other machines so far. The operator screens are fixed made up my them, not bitmaps and the wireframe graphics only worked in preview mode not while cutting.

In my opinion its missing too many important things for the CNC machines I normally use. I have listed a few things to see if these features are important to you guys or not.

Everyone has something thats more important to them than others do but this one irked me the most but it may mean nothing to you guys. They recommended using dual encoders to take care of backlash but it doesn't work, which meant I had to buy Galils most expensive card. I guess it would work if my tool was above the part as in drilling a hole but while cutting sometimes the gouge already happens and its too late.

Iam used to having tool comp G41, G42 and back lash settings and lead screw comp which I feel is absolutely necessary on a old machine. This can't be handled by dual encoders.

They do have a fixed short list of available G and M codes but again I was used to more. It couldn't run my Fanuc programs. There's only a limited number of M codes and only 12 tool offsets.

There are a few logic commands but it really needs a PLC for doing logic for things like tool changers and custom homing routines. Also I was limited to only 8 inputs and outputs.

For some reason It breaks down the program into chunks and that in itself has it's limits for recovering from a program once it started or traveling backwards. I could not interrupt the program and resume it. The spindle RPM is odd too without RPM feedback thru a printed port and they made they own break out terminal strip which lacks optical isolation for noise and surge protection.

I don't have the program any more. I swicthed back to the camsoft system I was using before and its really not the money but my time. Theres not enough of it as I get older. Iam not sure if this program is ready for the machine shop guy wanting to start a small business but it does provide a lesson or two if your new to CNC.

Don

[Al_The_Man]

The spindle RPM is odd too without RPM feedback thru a printed port ....

Thats really odd they should go that route, as usually with a four axis card the fourth analogue can be used for the spindle and the encoder in. can be used either for spindle FB or Hand Wheel.

I have used the Acroloop card for Plasma gantry as they had a commercial grade program that ran under DOS which covered all bases, which actually was used by some of the large plasma manuf.
They were converting it to a Mill and got just about all the wrinkles out when they were bought out by Parker, I have the program but there is just a couple of bugs which if they had ironed them out would have been commercial grade.
Even had a form of conversational programming & Multitasking PLC with 24v isolated I/O.
Al.

[DOD_don]

Sorry guys I shouldn't of said what I did I was just miffed at all the time I spent. I work as a contactor and both Sandia and Los Alamos use camsoft here on some of their machines and the guys are used to having a nice physical operator pendant and normal CNC features that most of our other newer machines have in the shop. The man that had jraco was using it out side the company and I thought I could save them a buck and try it but if I asked them to run the jraco and use a mouse on some of these mills after running a Fanuc they would string me up.

Don

[ViperTX]

So, the Axis control card (AXCC) interfaces to an Motion Control Interface Card (MCIA). The MCIA connects to the Servo Amplifier Card (SAC). The SAC connects to the servos.

Is that how the Galil is interfaced? Oh, yess and AXCC resides in the PC as a PCI or ISA buss card.

[Al_The_Man]

I am not sure of the question, I think this answers it.
Hardware wise it is just the motion control processor card, ISA or PCI in the PC slot that handles all the motion commands and servo loops PID and encoder update and outputs the required analogue or step or sinusoidal signal to whatever amplifiers you are using the only other hardware, aside from the amps is the breakout termination board from the motion card and any opto/relay interfaces you may require.
Al.

[jaycnc]

JRA Co software

I Guess you can't please everyone. We receive much positive feedback from customers who think our system is easy to use and performance packed. Some replace their Camsoft systems with it. Most use it with Cam programs. It is also used by many small shops and large ones. Many have multiple copies. If you would like to contact some of them we would be happy to provide contact information.

To clarify some of the comments it sounds like the user was not very clear on the software capabilities.

File/Auto mode
We do preprocess the cnc file but this is transparent to the user and file size is
unlimited
While running this file, block lookahead algorithms insure smooth continuous path motion. Feed override allows feed rate to be altered 0-200% while running.
Motion can be paused at anytime decelerrating the machine to a smooth stop by
hitting Pause. Motion can then be resumed by Hitting resume or the file can
be aborted by hitting Abort.

We cannot run files Backwards

Spindle speed control

Spindle speed can be controlled by the 4th axis of your Galil card.
If you own a 3 axis Galil card our optional printer port signal generator
card can be used. The Galil card will give 16 bit resolution the printer
port card 8 bit

Interface
We offer our own version of the Galil ICM 2900 Breakout board which is un-isolated.
It offers all the signals of the 2900 with screw type terminations for a lot less money.
If you need optical isolation buy the ICM2900 opto from Galil

PLC
We offer a built in PLC which supports directly the 8 inputs and 8 outputs on the
Controller card. The commands are simple and are powerful enough to control
a simple tool changer. We've done this on Acroloc machining centers.
If more I/O is need Galil offers expansion board for up to 64 additional I/O points
I believe. Most customers find 8 more than sufficient

I hope this addresses some Issue in the post. Please feel free to contact me with further questions.

Jay

[Al_The_Man]

JRA Co software

I Guess you can't please everyone.
Jay

I don't think it is so much a issue of 'trying to please everyone' as providing a package that conforms to a certain standard or benchmark, and I would say that has probabally been unofficially set that any CNC system should at least have the capabilities as provided by a Fanuc 0.
The CNC machining community, both manufacturing and machine tool building has, I believe come to expect the capabilities provided by a system such as this, this is witnessed by Mitsubishi and others following this trend, supplying anything over this is of course a bonus.
I am so far impressed to a point with the package JRA offers but with a couple of reservations about some features lacking that I know that I would be expected to provide to my customers.
1/ I know the basic I/O on the Galil is limited, but it appears from reading the manual that writing a M code PLC routine does not even have the logic capability of the native Galil commands, again, in light of the limited I/O, I would consider adding an external PLC to take care of complicated routines, such as tool changers etc, this I would not have a problem with as the basic price of the s/w would allow this extra cost.
The only thing this would require is the ability to hold up the processing of the CNC part program until the conventional (FIN)ish signal was recieved from the PLC.
2/ How does one home the A axis?
3/ It would be desirable to have more than 4 axis capability combined with spindle and hand wheel.
4/ Is the control capable of spindle gearing?
5/ G54 to G59 work offsets
6/ Parametric programing would be an asset
7/ Comprehensive Fabuc 0 G code routines including G31 etc, it would be desirable but not essential to provide G41 G42 as long as the present system can easily simulate this by offseting the tool path on the desired side.
Although options like tool path display are an asset, I would consider items 1,2,4,5,7, to be most essential, the rest, desirable.
I would also suggest that if a lathe package could be provided this would add to the marketability of the s/w.
The quandry I am in as a retro-fitter is that not only has the control have to have the features required to supply the typical machining community, but also be cost competitive, if the system software/hardware costs , less servo's etc are aproaching the C$10k mark, which it can with some full blown PC based systems, then I would prefer to quote using, say a Mitsubishi package that I can obtain complete with servo's and amps etc for slightly more. Plus I know that there is minimum integration and the control will be full featured.
A low priced package allows the feasability of retro-fitting machinery that has a low replacement cost, otherwise its not cost effective.
Your comments on the above are welcomed.
Al.

[jaycnc]

Hi Al,

Quick answers:

Wingcnc from JRA will simultaneously support 4 axes,handwheel
and spindle speed control assuming your Galil card has enough axes.

The PLC is simplified for non PLC programmers and uses simple commands.
Using even these simple commands it is quite easy to poll Inputs to wait for a process to complete for example waiting for an external PLC to complete it's task. The cnc program will not continue until the PLC program is complete.

Now Galil programs may now also be written and called from the PLC for more advanced users. This allows all native Galil logic commands to be used that are supported in their standalone mode.

Homing of the A axis is supported in the Home Axis Mode just as the X ,Y and Z are.

G54, G59 is coming

Spindle gearing is not supported

G41 and 42 is not currently supported. If the conversational mode is purchased it does the cutter compensation for common machine operations
such as pockets, simple contours, etc directly from the control ( see the Manual)

Additionally cutter comp can be performed in the users CAM program

Most of these changes and more are available in the Latest version

Thanks

Jay

[shysam]

I would of not written a post here until a saw someone else write about jraco first.

I don't want to go on a rant. I have one clear issue to present about pop up error messages. Like Al I am a retrofitor helping a customer and friend that is too shy to speak up.

The jraco cnc software my friend has he has had about one year. He dosen't use his machine much.
He hasn't noticed or mentioned the other things Al and don wrote about yet but the one big issue is G code and pop up Galil error messages that he can not recover from. These happen at random in different standard G code programs that cause hanging and making him reboot when a error pops up. It has been a while and I don't remember what they said but the were different ones that did not explain the cause of the error. Only short messages like BG can not countine or command only valid from a program and buffer full. Galil error messages should be handled especially the ones that could crash the machine. I am embarssed with the home made way the software was put together. I think mach II works better for $150.

Can I ask what is your return policy. I will let him know. Since he has a Galil card already. I called Galil and they recomend camsoft. I think I can fix this sitsuation if he is willing.

shysam

[Karl_T]

Me thinks you'd have better luck selling ice to Eskimos than trying to return one year old software. VBG

If you're friend decides to pop for Camsoft, he'll be delighted. Its expensive. You gets what you pays for.

Karl

[HillBilly]

I think mach II works better for $150.

Most will agree, If you need step and direction signals for CNC. It would be hard to justify the price of the Galil card alone, much less the SW, to generate these signals. When it comes to encoder feedback and +/-10v command signal, this is where the Galil cards become cost effective.

Darek

[jaycnc]

Shysam,
It sounds like his Galil parameters such as error limit are not properly set or the system is not properly tuned if he is using servos.These are issues with his motion system setup and Galil not the WinGcnc software. If he contacts us with his problem we would be glad to assist him. If he is receiveing a galil command motion not valid with motor off it is because 1 or more axes are off for some reason.

As for the "homemade" way the software was put together every screen shot is available in the online manual for viewing before purchase. Most customers are pleased with the softwares simplicity and ease of use.

Our tech support is pretty responsive. Have him contact us via phone or email

Thanks

Jay

[shysam]

Jay,

Thanks for the offer. I also believe its not wingcnc that displays these messages. Instead its some combination of G code and how the operator uses the wingcnc interface that produces the Galil error messages. I have researched this quite a bit and know the messages and hanging are from the Galil native command language drivers. It is Galil stopping the machine and making him reboot. My customer has contacted you about these message earlier this year and you told him that these were Galil errors and not yours. You could not help him so we called Galil and they could not help us and told us to call you because it boils down to the way the native Galil commands are given inside your software. I have not been there in a while and we did try many times adding up to many days of my service. He said he can't afford to continue my service. The biggest problem was that these messages were at random. What is more than considered a standard G code program I got to run by showing him how I did it. It would run fine until I left then he said these messages would pop up again and the only thing he could do is reboot sometimes when the machine was cutting. I was there we did not change any settings and the job would run good a few times then not. The error messages may not be yours but because they are so random even when repeating the same job this leads me to believe Galil that something in the software interface is issuing these native Galil commands to cause the problem. I will ask him to call you but I don't think he is using the machine.

shysam

[Al_The_Man]

What ever program runs a Galil card has in the end to issue Galil native commands to the card, and these have to conform to the format laid out by Galil, if the part program is formatted wrong, by operator etc I would think that should be picked up before being issued to the Galil card and an operator error message be issued, this prevents the Gallil card from issuing an error which results in the program hanging.
In other words, the front end software should do the policing on commands issued to the card. Obviously the s/w is using the TC function to obtain the error so at least it should decifer the Galil cryptic explanation and generate its own message.
Al.

[quicknc]

My Experience

I have used JRA cnc software since 1999. I started with with the GCNC DOS version and I liked it so much I bought the Windows version for another machine.
The first machine was a servo retrofitted Bridgeport. The second machine we made in house for machining EDM electrodes. (servos also ) I am using a Galil 1730 3 axis ISA card and a Galil 1842 PCI 4 axis card. I also have the ICM1900 breakout from Galil on one machine and the JRA ICB ? breakout on the other.

I do a lot of 3d prototype work and the contouring is very smooth and accurate. I am an old DOS guy but have to admit the Windows version is much easier to move around in. The screens to me are not fancy but simple and effective. I don't use the DOS version anymore but run Win98 And Win2000. In my experience the software is solid and I trust it enough to run lights out on some of our longer toolpaths.
I have used both Camsoft and Flashcut and prefer this one.


I haven't had the problems mentioned before and I run these machines daily.
But if I do hit a clamp or exceed the galil position error setting when in AUTO the machine stops. I can exit auto and check for the error LED on the galil card or read the error code in the systems screen.Then I hit reset
from the main menu and I am up and running again. So maybe you are right about the error handling but this is minor in my opinion.

The handwheel they sell is great and has a good detent feel to it... not to mention how much easier it makes setups. Haven't really used the PLC
but the DRO mode is nice and so is the conversational milling for bolt circles.

I like it and would recommend it

Paul

[HuFlungDung]

So what drivers are being used for the Galil card in this JRA software? What are the chances of a mixup?

I think Camsoft supplies their own drivers for the Galil card. So there has to be a few variations in existence out there.

When I was setting up my Camsoft G and M code logic, I found that there was a fair difference in operation between "single step" and "continuous mode" which either they fixed, or I had to make sure that I used the proper Camsoft commands to stop the program.

I am not aware of the details of how the Galil card is fed commands in single step mode, versus continuous, but it has to be handled differently if a contour path has been loaded into the buffer, and is suddenly switched to single step mode in mid stride, so to speak.

When the program just hung, I often had no clue about what was happening, so I made a button to query the Galil card for an error number and bring this out into the Camsoft interface. That in itself sure made it a lot easier to establish where the problem was.

[gromit68]

we did a retrofit on a sheldon tape lathe many years ago, using a dmc-740.
the lathe has moog valves, out guru built some boards to convert the +/-10v servo signal to whatever it was the moog valves were wanting to see.
I hand write all of the code.

[Karl_T]

Settle for four out of five?

I have Camsoft pro, servos, Mastercam 9 and 10, but only 1700 and 1800 series Galil boards.

My guess is that there may be some initial setup configuration woes. Ernie, at Camsoft, is a real wizard on this. After that,you won't know the difference between a galil card and a separate Galil controller.

Karl

[corbyvhall]

Ok, does anyone use mastercam, solidcam, or surfcam with the camsoft package??

[paul hamler]

Galil CNC software.
There has been discussion about CamSoft and Jarco software, there is another product called Simple G (http://www.datapulsesoftware.com ) Has anyone had any experience with this software controlling a CNC machine??? If so pls share your experievces.
Thanks