[slashmaster]

I'm starting to wonder if I could waste too much time and money learning about and collecting endmills, drill bits and collets when Lasers or water jets might be able to do the same thing better without tool changes? Can some other technology ever make endmills obsolete?

[Geof]

Water jet cutters and lasers can do some amazing things but I think the prospect that they could ever totally replace milling is practically zero. They supplement milling for operations where either their speed is a great advantage which is the case with laser in some instances, or their ability to cut very hard materials without introducing stresses or heat affected zones around the cut area as is the case for (abrasive) water jets.

Neither of these techniques can approach the precision possible with milling, they cannot do blind holes or slots and I cannot imagine how you would ever do a complex three dimensional shape with either of them.

About the only technology that could conceivably make end mills obsolete would be some form of EDM that was hundreds of times faster than current EDM and I think that is very unlikely.

[the4thseal]

they solve different needs, there is overlap, but nothing can be everything to everyone.

[nlancaster]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jm4_HikMqk"]YouTube - Flow 5-Axis Waterjet[/ame]

3d cutting anyone. I would so love a Waterjet for making custom case parts because they are mostly flat stock, and that is where a waterjet or laser excel. But they are starting to make 5-axis waterjets that can do some amazing stuff.

[the4thseal]

I did not say not not cool. i just wish it was not sooooo expensive. i wish they made a less expensive or smaller one...2x4 feet. nice vid.

[serriadh]

I'd imagine that "one day" lasers might be able to replace endmills; carefully controlled laser pulses could conceivably be used to cut blind holes: assuming you had very precise control over beam focus, each pulse could ablate a volume of material of predictable size. Presumably a suitable measuring system would be able to measure the depth of blind holes if such precise control is impractical in the short term.

You'd also be able to do things like complex internal shapes restricted only by your ability to insert mirrors or lenses into a part's interior during the cutting process.

This is all pie in the sky though. I'd anticipate flying cars and laser battleships first.

I don't think you could ever make waterjets either a) small enough to be used on non-industrial scales or b) versatile enough to cut blind holes. I'm open to being corrected on (a), but I think (b) is just something outside of the technology's capabilities.

[kweierbach]

I'd imagine that "one day" lasers might be able to replace endmills; carefully controlled laser pulses could conceivably be used to cut blind holes: assuming you had very precise control over beam focus, each pulse could ablate a volume of material of predictable size. Presumably a suitable measuring system would be able to measure the depth of blind holes if such precise control is impractical in the short term.

You'd also be able to do things like complex internal shapes restricted only by your ability to insert mirrors or lenses into a part's interior during the cutting process.

This is all pie in the sky though. I'd anticipate flying cars and laser battleships first.

I don't think you could ever make waterjets either a) small enough to be used on non-industrial scales or b) versatile enough to cut blind holes. I'm open to being corrected on (a), but I think (b) is just something outside of the technology's capabilities.

One thing I learned don't say it "is just something outside of the technology's capabilities." Somebody will someday come up with a way to do it. Look how far technology has come in the last 30yrs just think where it will be in the next 30yrs
Kevin

[escott76]

I'm starting to wonder if I could waste too much time and money learning about and collecting endmills, drill bits and collets when Lasers or water jets might be able to do the same thing better without tool changes? Can some other technology ever make endmills obsolete?

Every tech has it's place. Think about what you are asking though. Laser and AWJ can't even sub for each other all of the time. Each process in the production of an item has it's tradeoffs. One process will generally be the most efficient at getting a job done. For example, we have a pair of lasers where I work. For certain parts there is no way you could reasonably do them any other way. Then again, we also have a turret press that sometimes can do the same job cheaper.
Laser has a HAZ, and all sorts of other requirements that may make it impossible to use within a given job. It can't cut certain materials (depends on the material and the laser in question as well as many other operating factors). That being said, for what it works on it does a great job and it does it fast.
You've already got SLS (selective laser sintering) for 3D parts as well, but it will take a while to get it down to the level of a fast mill in terms of speed and overall cost. I'm not saying never, but it's gonna take a while, and in that time milling tech improves as well.
The right tool for the right job, given where we are in technology. There is still a need for a lathe even though a CNC mill can cut a circular part.

[serriadh]

One thing I learned don't say it "is just something outside of the technology's capabilities." Somebody will someday come up with a way to do it. Look how far technology has come in the last 30yrs just think where it will be in the next 30yrs
Kevin

Man, if I had anything of any value, I'd place money on water jet cutting being as likely to end up compact, versatile and able to make blind holes being as bandsaw technology making the same improvements

The physics of a water jet pretty much preclude it from whole areas of machining, not unlike a wire-EDM system. I can see it getting more powerful, more capable, smaller, cheaper, but drastically expanding its capabilities? Ceramic endmills, ultra-precise laser and plasma machining, high speed EDM, cheap ECM... these things seem to be natural evolutions of todays' technology. I don't think we'll see any surprises either way; today's machining processes are improvements on methods fifty years old, at the minimum. You're more likely to see new ways of assembling materials than shaping them after the fact, at this point.

Anyway, these opinions are worth exacly what you paid for them, and possibly less

[philbur]

People where using endmills 30 years ago and they are still using them today, where's the advance.

30 years ago I had a small manual lathe sitting on a bench, it's still there and I'm still using it.

Nothing wrong with dreaming, but holding your breath can be fatal.

Phil

One thing I learned don't say it "is just something outside of the technology's capabilities." Somebody will someday come up with a way to do it. Look how far technology has come in the last 30yrs just think where it will be in the next 30yrs
Kevin

[Geof]

People where using endmills 30 years ago and they are still using them today, where's the advance.....
Phil

In some cases radically different flute/helix geometry, carbides with an impact resistance and coatings that were not even dreamed about 30 years ago.

[Farasien]

Can a laser or waterjet cut a non-through pocket or journal out of a solid piece of something? I'd say until they can do that, at the same or greater speed (because time = $) and/or energy cost as lathes or mills, the answer is no.

-Farasien

[philbur]

Not really a major technology jump though.

Phil

In some cases radically different flute/helix geometry, carbides with an impact resistance and coatings that were not even dreamed about 30 years ago.

[cyclestart]

.
You've already got SLS (selective laser sintering) for 3D parts as well, but it will take a while to get it down to the level of a fast mill in terms of speed and overall cost.

I just googled that term. Interesting stuff. Sinterrring (sp?) reminds of Oilite bushings. Anyone here handled a product created by one of these machines ? Could it for instance build sharp corners or a smooth ss mold ?

[slashmaster]

People where using endmills 30 years ago and they are still using them today, where's the advance.

30 years ago I had a small manual lathe sitting on a bench, it's still there and I'm still using it.

Nothing wrong with dreaming, but holding your breath can be fatal.

Phil

Only 30 years?

[kweierbach]

if someone would have said 30yrs ago that someday they use a lazer to improve your eye sight I'd said only in the movies. so the thought of a pulse controled water jet to do pockets or 3d surface work I don't think is imposable

kevin

[kweierbach]

People where using endmills 30 years ago and they are still using them today, where's the advance.

30 years ago I had a small manual lathe sitting on a bench, it's still there and I'm still using it.

Nothing wrong with dreaming, but holding your breath can be fatal.

Phil

But 30yrs ago you didn't think that if you wanted to you could cnc it.

[escott76]

if someone would have said 30yrs ago that someday they use a lazer to improve your eye sight I'd said only in the movies. so the thought of a pulse controled water jet to do pockets or 3d surface work I don't think is imposable

kevin

Many things are "possible", but their utility may not be where it needs to be to make it common enough to replace existing tech. The OP asked if he should forget about learning about end mills. In that sense the timescales do not seem likely to produce said results quickly enough to make sense to just forget technology that has been useful and will continue to be useful for many years to come.
That all being said, take a look sometime at the pierce sites on laser or AWJ cut parts, especially thick ones. Both AWJ and laser work well when through cutting. The lasers use assist gas to blow the molten metal clear of the cut line. Before that it's just hammering the surface until it can penetrate. Makes an awful mess, and it would make pocket machining tricky at best. I'll bet you would see pulsed power lasers before you saw that level of pulse control in an AWJ, but pulsing the kind of power needed to cut metal is going to be tricky in and of itself. Never stop shooting for the stars, but to just ignore all the history up until that point seems silly.

[Boots]

After watching the video I see the Water jet has advanced a bit sence it's eariler days...this is good as we all need more options doing our work.

[LongRat]

I just googled that term. Interesting stuff. Sinterrring (sp?) reminds of Oilite bushings. Anyone here handled a product created by one of these machines ? Could it for instance build sharp corners or a smooth ss mold ?

Yes, I work with parts created by an EOS M270 machine. You can build sharp corners (internal and external) and build in various hard steels, titanium, inconel, cobalt chrome and other materials. Off the machine, the surface is like a very fine casting. You have to hand finish the parts if you want a high finish, but the results can be excellent. The best uses for these machines are working in materials that are very difficult to machine, or to create geometries that are impossible any other way. You only use as much material as is required in the part - important when the material is expensive such as 24 Carat solid gold, which can be done on the M270.