[menzzer37]

So I have a new 1100 machine with ATC and I can't get consistent changes. I always reference the Z axis before loading a new program too. I get fork crashes where the machine jams the spindle into the fork. It's maybe off by 60 or 70 thou height wise. The tray obviously just sits there then retracts. Rezero the axis and it will change perfectly. It's a constant problem though. Any thoughts? Sometimes it runs beautifully, other times...

I'm using Sprutcam 8 with the latest version 8 post (for reference).

[SomeWhatLost]

I am probably wrong on this, and I only wish that I had an ATC (and maybe with just a little bit of jealousy for those that do...)
but maybe your Z limit switch is a bit flaky?

[menzzer37]

Is that a known problem? I haven't talked to Tormach yet. They didnt know about the issue with the air cushions that were making my retraction slow. I also had one of the valves blow out of my PDB last week. I saw a little brass fitting in the T-slots... glad I caught that...

[menzzer37]

Also, the stepper on the carousel is moving really slow now for some reason; maybe half the speed it use to.

[SomeWhatLost]

well, you have exceeded my non-knowledge of the ATC
I have no clue if a flaky Z access limit switch is common, or a known issue, not sure I would even notice if mine was flaky as I unfortunately lack an ATC...

you really should just call Tormach... they seem like nice people, I am sure they will have you up and running in no time...

[SomeWhatLost]

and oh yea... those PDB valves can really shoot out pretty good when you don't have the jam nut tight enough... found mine in the chip try once...

[David Bord]

Also, the stepper on the carousel is moving really slow now for some reason; maybe half the speed it use to.

Ohhhh... Mine as well. I still have yet to troubleshoot. Please post if figure it out!


David

[David Bord]

Also, the stepper on the carousel is moving really slow now for some reason; maybe half the speed it use to.

Definitely call Tormach if you haven't already. My slow non-referencing carousel was actually due to my mistake. The set screw that holds the sensor in place was bit to tight. If the screw is tightened to much(it doesn't take much), it will make the sensor malfunction and not read open. It will read different when the magnet is close but not fully open which will trip up the ATC. You can test by following the troubleshooting procedures in the ATC manual.

Anyhow Daniel at Tormach helped me figure it out. These guys are top notch... I've had my machine maybe 5 years now and Im still amazed at their level and quality of service. Thanks guys!

David

[menzzer37]

This thing is absolute garbage.... Nothing but troubles. Watch the nuts on the actuator as they can come loose since there aren't any lock nuts. The nut backed out and the actuator did not pull the carousel back and the spindle started up and burn one of the metal forks up. Repeatability on tool location is sketchy as well and half the time it hits the tool 1/16" off center and pushes out the nylon screws. Should have paid the extra money and got a machine with a real tool changer... anyone want to buy a 2 month old series 3 with ATC in Indiana? I'm ordering a Hurco today.

[David Bord]

You sound pretty frustrated. Have you spoken to Tormach? In reality the ATC has been proven to be very reliable when setup and adjusted properly. Im sure Tormach can get you squared away.

David

[menzzer37]

I did call...they don't have replacement parts and don't know when they will receive more. They said it may be a warranty issue, but will have to follow up. The difference here is, when you drop $24k on a machine and there's no field support. Phone calls only go so far. My carousel has 1/4" of backlash so it presents the tool offset and the spindle pushes the fork off. This, combined with the cylinder nut backing off, drawbar cushion valve popping out, retract valve not to spec... this is not a quality piece of equipment. They need to send a tech out to go through this thing.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I'm curious - Is the ATC actually designed and built in-house by Tormach? I recall reading somewhere it was designed by Z-Bot, but no idea if that's true or not. Anyone know for sure?

Regards,
Ray L.

[TXFred]

It sounds like you have multiple problems, and not all of them are ATC problems.

First, I am surprised you say that the valves on the actuators don't have locknuts. Mine has knurled locknuts on all the valves. If they're missing, that's a warranty issue. But in the meantime, a piece of clear tape or a blob of silicone gasket goo will hold the valve in adjustment.

It sounds like David Bord has the answer for the slow carousel. If that doesn't solve it, you can try swapping the stepper driver from the back of the machine with one of your other drivers. Be sure to reconfigure the DIP switches.

You mention the backlash in the tool tray. You may not realise it, but that backlash is there by design. The backlash allows the tray to move freely, which means that a slight tool misalignment will not cause a jam. If the carousel is presenting the tool off center due to the backlash, then I suspect that you didn't correctly follow the carousel alignment procedure. You're supposed to use the ATC Setup screen to position the carousel so that it's aligned when it's in the center of its backlash. Once you've done that, the ATC's controller should move the tray correctly. Can you confirm that you did this?

Your original problem was the Z height misalignment. That's not the ATC doing that. The ATC doesn't control the movement of the Z axis, ever. Mach moves the Z axis to the high or low tool change positions, and then commands the ATC to run through its cycle. So if the Z axis is moving to the wrong height, look at Mach and the Tormach hardware, not the ATC.

As for the lack of field support, I'm curious why this is an issue. You must have known that you would not get field support. I think it's unreasonable to expect a Haas or Mazak level of support when you're not paying Haas or Mazak prices. But these problems you're having are fixable. Between us folks on the Zone and the folks at Tormach, I'm sure that you'll have that mill up and running before long.

Sincerely,
Frederic
Pure Geometry LLC

[nitewatchman]

We wiped a few until we got the ATC aligned and adjusted. I remember looking at that little bag of nylon bolts and thinking that ain't enough. As a matter of a fact I bought 100 16mm and 100 20mm from Mcmaster-Carr just in case (~$20.00). Also had to modify the end panel of the table chip guard to get length clearance for long tools, this took out a set of bolts or two until we figured it out.

We just cleared a job that had 1800+ tool changes over the run of the parts and had no problem or malfunction at all except over time the air blast applies a uniform oil film to the TTS Shanks. The shanks and the TTS collet has to be cleaned regularly.


nitewatchman

[MooreLei]

I had trouble getting my ATC aligned at first. I too, thought I would run out of the little plastic bolts...

Then I started over from the beginning, watched the Tormach videos (again) and slowly stepped through the process from start to finish. I mounted a 1/2" aluminum rod into a TTS fixture, used my squares to square the changer to the table and marked the positions with a felt tip marker. I also used a small bottle jack to hold the ATC in position while I tightened/loosened each bolt. Once I had it correctly positioned it works great. Just so you know my disk platter was loose (big nut in the middle). Apparently that was causing random problems depending on the weight/position of the tools in the carousel. Once I discovered the issue I have not had a problem since. It is dead-nuts accurate now, every time. I agree that the play in the rotation (or clocking) is deliberate. It provides a degree of forgiveness but to be honest, that has not been a problem with mine. My ATC has been up and running for several months now with out a problem. I am very pleased with it. Again, the alignment with the table appears to be the key. If your Z-axis is not referenced properly I'm sure that could be a major problem but I have not experienced that with my machine (s/n 336 I think). Have you tried calling tech support at Tormach? They seemed genuinely interested to solve any problems I have encountered.

[menzzer37]

The owner got a call from Tormach and they gave suggestions. I think we will go back through the setup, but they said it may be that the Z axis coupler is slipping and that the carousel may have too much backlash. It's suppose to have less that 1/8". I understand that there is play by design, but there definitely isn't suppose to be 1/4" like we are seeing. It requires a lot of disassembly of the carousel to get to the screws. Tackling that one next week.

Man, Frederic, a little fanboy defensive aren't we? Might you be a Tormach rep in disguise?

[tbaker2500]

Man, Frederic, a little fanboy defensive aren't we? Might you be a Tormach rep in disguise?

Wow, you had to go there? Fred's response was well reasoned, and he took the time out of his day to try and help you.

I can warn you now, this forum doesn't respond well to drive by attacks... People are willing to help if their help is appreciated. If you just want to complain, go somewhere else.

I'm in Indiana, how much you want for the machine?

[menzzer37]

Easy, geeze... Calm down, just a joke. It's funny that nobody responded to the thread for help until I bashed Tormach. I do appreciate those who shared their experiences with setup crashes. People need to relax when criticism is given to these machines. I mean, within an hour of me posting that it was garbage, Tormach called our shop. That is great and their support is good as well, but it's a little coincidental don't you think?

[tbaker2500]

Does that mean I'm not going to get your machine for cheap? Oh man...

[Cam^2cam]

Sorry for the derail, but I'm curious where in Indiana you folks are from? I live out by greenfield.