[Andrey67]

Bought the 3 sets of Panasonic servo MUDS041+MUMS041 used.
Connect to Mach3. The motors are working! But there is a mismatch.
Settings motors in Mach3:
2,500 encoder count x 4 for quadrature = 10,000 pulses per screw rev
And 10,000 / 5 pitch ballscrew = 2,000 steps per mm.

Attachment 265716

Run Mach3 at 300unit/min

Attachment 265718

The motor is turns! Then I measure the turns of the motor by tachometer and see: 2500prm!
But for such a turn: 2500prm x 5 pitch ballscrew = 12500unit/min need!
The difference between these values (12500 and 300) is 40 times!
Why? Where am I wrong?
I checked the parameter setting of servo and asked about it Panasonic support.
As I understand that electronic gear is not used.
In an attachment my Panaterm file.

Any thoughts?

[BrianTech]

How big is the mismatch? if you draw a square of 100X100mm what difference we talk on X and Y axes? If at one of Y or X axes the quota is right then is not the motor problem. Is at connection of the machine from the step motor to X or Y axis is some movement there. And is delayed from the start of the step motor movement to starting to move the axes.

[mactec54]

Andrey67

They are very close, have you done the Mach3 auto setup steps/per, in Settings ( Alt6 ) Axes Calibration (Just above the Reset Button )

You may be able to adjust the Electronic Gearing in the Servo Drive as well

[Andrey67]

How big is the mismatch? .

12500/300= more 40
The machine is not built yet. I deal with the settings and see the mismatch.

[mactec54]

Andrey67

The setting in Mach3 motor tuning, you have it at 300, this is your max speed it will run, which it is,you need to change this number, I doubt that you will have enough,output from your computer/ mach3, by itself to reach max RPM, this is were you can use the Electronic Gearing, or use something like a Smooth Stepper ,to reach your max speed/RPM

[CNCMAN172]

Andrey67,
A couple comments. On the Panasonic amplifiers the default is motors with 2500 P/R. However, you can make two parameter changes and adjust that to another number. You need to ensure that is correct. One easy way is to issue 2500 pulses and your motor should turn exactly one revolution. You are also trying to bring quadrature into your calculation but the amplifier already does all of that, so you only see 2500 pulses. You mention you have a 5 pitch ball screw, so is it 5 turns per inch, or is this a 5mm ball screw? One issue with using Servo Motors with high encoder counts is this requires a larger number of pulses to get to higher speeds. Mach3 is limited on how many you can output on the parallel port. You have a couple options to increase speed once you have your calculation correct. You can adjust the number of pulses per revolution using parameter changes in the amplifier so it takes less pulses to turn the motor one revolution or you can go to a hardware pulse engine like KFLOP, SMOOTHSTEPPER, and others. I run Panasonic servo on my mills. Here is a sample calculation of steps per unit for my machine. 2500 Pulse/Revolution, 5mm ball screw which turns 5.08 turns/inch (metric ball screw) so 2500 pulses/rev * 5.08 Turns/inch = 12,700 pulses/inch. Here is another calculation for another machine with a US ball screw and a gearhead reducer. Panasonic servo set to 2000 pulses/revolution, 11:1 Harmonic driver reducer, US ball screw 5 turns per inch, Calculation: 2000 p/r * 11 * 5 turn/inch = 110,000 pulses/inch. This last example limits my speed on Z axis to about 75 in/min because of the huge number of pulses required. The issue on that axis was the harmonic drive reduction was too great but it was picking up a very heavy spindle motor. Hope this helps. Good Luck
Russ

[Andrey67]

Andrey67,
.... You mention you have a 5 pitch ball screw, so is it 5 turns per inch, or is this a 5mm ball screw? ...
.... You can adjust the number of pulses per revolution using parameter changes in the amplifier so it takes less pulses to turn the motor one revolution or you can go to a hardware pulse engine like KFLOP, SMOOTHSTEPPER, and others.

Russ,

The ball screw with 5mm per 1 turn.
I have ethernet smoothstepper.
If I will set the value of feed more than 300mm/min, the servomotor speed increases above the maximum 3000prm and servodriver indicates an error, the motor stops.
What should be the parameter #44 (2500 or 10000)?

Attachment 265862

And what should be the parameters #46, 4A, 4B?

Attachment 265864

Andrey

[mactec54]

Andrey67

So you are using a Smooth Stepper,you did not say this in the first post, this changes a lot of things, just change the 300/mm/min, change this until the motor RPM don't exceed the motors max, causing the motor error

Once you get this attached to a machine you will have to set the Step/Per to the correct number, then you can play with the max mm/min setting as well, you could also limit the Smooth Stepper Pulse output as well

Because you have the Smooth Stepper you don't need to change any of the Electronic Gear settings,at this time, just leave as the default, you have more output from the Smooth Stepper ( Pulse output ) which is more than you will ever need, which you can adjust also to suit

[Andrey67]

I have a ESS, but do not use it yet. However I tried it work, but had the same mismatch as without it.
With the current setting, I can not increase the feed more than 300mm/min. I get an error and stop the motor.

[CNCMAN172]

Andrey,
Fist off if you ask the motor to go faster than 3000 RPM you will always get an error from the amplifier. The maximum RPM on the servo motor is 3000 RPM.

Your amplifiers are newer than mine but here are the parameters you need to adjust if you want to use electronic gearing. P44 = Encoder Outputs/Turn = 2500, P46 = Numerator, P4A = Multiplier, P4B = Denominator.

You can gear up and you can gear down using the formula Command Pulses = P46[ ] * 2 * P4A / P4B which is detailed in the manual.

You ball screw is 5mm so for MACH3 in your steps/unit calculation you must use 5.08 turns/inch. Why? 5mm = .196845" so 1"/.196845 = 5.08 Turns/Inch

2500 p/4 * 5.08 = 12,700 Pulses/Inch, this assumes you have your MACH system setup in Inches.

If you look at the examples on Page 53 of the amplifier manual you will see many examples. To reduce the required pulses or input pulse frequency hitting the amplifiers you could adjust PR46=10,000 PR4A=0 PR4B=2000 this would only require 100K input frequency to turn motor 3000 RPM.

Explain exactly what you would like to do and the exact parameters can be determined. Hope this helps.

Russ

[Andrey67]

You ball screw is 5mm so for MACH3 in your steps/unit calculation you must use 5.08 turns/inch. Why? 5mm = .196845" so 1"/.196845 = 5.08 Turns/Inch
2500 p/4 * 5.08 = 12,700 Pulses/Inch, this assumes you have your MACH system setup in Inches.

Russ
Why? I switched to the metric system.

Attachment 265890

Explain exactly what you would like to do and the exact parameters can be determined.

I want to at 3000 rpm of motor have feed about 5000mm/min.

[mactec54]

Russ
Why? I switched to the metric system.
I want to at 3000 rpm of motor have feed about 5000mm/min.

That's no problem, once you connect everything to a machine, until you do 3000rpm from the motor, is not going to relate to 5000mm/min with nothing attached to it

So the motor does not max out ( Show an error ) you just have to reduce the 300mm/min it is very simple

[mactec54]

CNCMAN172

At this point he does not need to do any of what you have posted, if he was connected to a machine then he could use the Electronic Gearing, if he needs it, for just running a servo motor,like he is, attached to nothing, it's not needed

[CNCMAN172]

Andrey67,

To move an axis 5000mm/min which contains a ballscrew that moves 5mm/revolution only requires 1000 revolutions of the ballscrew in 1 minute. At 2500 P/R * 1000 revolutions = 2.5M pulses in a minute, which is 41666 pulses per second. The Ethernet Smoothstepper has a pulse rates up to 4MHz so you will have no issue driving the motor at that speed.

On your MACH3 configuration for pulses/unit if you setup you machine for Metric you just use 5 * 2500 = 12,500 pulses.

Try and tell mach3 to go 5mm does the motor rotate one full turn?

Russ

[Andrey67]

I found the cause!

Andrey,
Your amplifiers are newer than mine but here are the parameters you need to adjust if you want to use electronic gearing. P44 = Encoder Outputs/Turn = 2500, P46 = Numerator, P4A = Multiplier, P4B = Denominator.
Russ

The parameters were:
P46=10000
P4B=250
In this case the reduction is 40!

The difference between these values (12500 and 300) is 40 times!

I changed parameters P46, P4B and there are no mismatch!
Thank you all!

Andrey

[CNCMAN172]

Andrey,
Yup like I said you can gear up or down with those parameters.
Russ

[mactec54]

Andrey67

Once you connect to you machine, you will have to adjust the steps/per mm to suit your machine, they will be close by calculating them, but if you want accuracy, then you will have to do the measurements with your machine working, this may change these settings a small amount as well

What did you set the Electronic Gearing # too ??

P46=
P4B=

[Andrey67]

Mactec54

P46=1
P4B=1

Andrey

[Andrey67]

Another question.
How can I connect 4 servo apmlifiers so if one EMERGENCY stop others stopped too?
How it should look like in the diagram?