[scadvice]

1996 15XT... I replaced the X axis driver board, Tuned to book specs with no problems. Well...mostly no problems... X axis motor has a very, very, slight whine, hum or harmonic oscillation and you can lightly feel it. While stationary, it will almost go away sometimes after jogging but then come back. Hand turning the screw is smooth (drive off). Z and Y axis servo's are quiet. Any ideas?? I got a few guesses, but wanted to hear your thoughts as this is my first amp replacement...
Steve

[Neal]

Sounds like possibly the COMP pot need a slight touch up.

Neal

[scadvice]

Sounds like possibly the COMP pot need a slight touch up.

Neal

Hi Neal,
I suspected that...but wondered if something else would cause the same thing.
Thanks,
Steve

[scadvice]

Neal,
I rotated the 'comp' pot ccw a quarter of a turn at a time, for two turns total...no change. I returned the 'comp' to it's original position then rotated it cw the same way for one half turn. As I understand comp it has to do with balancing phases ccw less input cw more input, to much adjustment is bad, you could be 180 out. Laymans terms of coarse. Anyway, no change that way either...should I rotate more? ccw? cw? starting direction. Could I have a bad comp pot on a new board? BTW- maybe I'm not adjusting the comp right?... the machine is on and just sitting there in jog. Not on any maintance feed loop. Right now it's back where I started. No change still humming. Otherwise appears to move and run fine??? I'm feeling really stupid here -grin.
Steve

[Neal]

Steve--
The adjustments you made should have shown some affect. Since it did not, we may be looking a a weak encoder (resolver for DC), motor or amp. Also try removing the 1010 controller cards and clean the gold edge con ts and re-seat the boards.

Neal

[scadvice]

Neal, I'll work on it and report back the results.
Steve

[Neal]

Steve--
One further thought. Check the coupler for having excess play. Also make sure the the spider inserts are NOT bottoming out on the metallic portions. Adding some silicon lube to the spiders sometimes helps.

Neal

[scadvice]

I take the 1010 boards out one at a time and clean the gold connectors with alcohol and a cotton Q tip the first one out is slot 13’s board. I replace that board and left to the next one, and so on. Skipped 12 (dummy) 11, 10, and lastly slot 9. Got called by my partner to help him with something and I come back and (here’s comes the stupid stuff) turn the machine on without double checking what I did. I also did not write down how the wires that plug in to the boards are positioned i.e. is the middle one and the bottom one the single wire connection (clear brn/gold… or… the clear brn/gold and white combination or ?
Anyway, stupid (me) doesn’t check turns the machine on and I get “clear Emergency Stop Condition” “press jog to reset’ huh?? What’s this?? I press the jog and get ERROR Number #1 motor overload x axis z axis Fault!!!
So… I go to the cabinet and look in Hummm?? I see that slot 13 wires are reversed order of the other slots wires OK… I must of put the other in wrong !! Dumb!! But wait, maybe the first is wrong and the rest are correct??? Now that kind of makes sense looking at the error message but…. Hummm??? Now I’m doubting myself…Agggaa!
Alright time to back off and think about this… If I guess wrong, I may damage a board, if I haven’t already. Time to ask for help
Heeeelllllpppp!.....:drowning:
Summary: I pulled and cleaned the 1010 boards in slots 13, 11, 10, and 9. I turned the machine on and had a fault error #1 message… I then opened the cabinet and found the slot 13 board wire plugin's plugged in reverse to the rest of the boards single brn/gold wire in the middle plug and the double brn/gold and white wires plug in the bottom. All the others were the opposite the double brn/gold and white wires in the middle plug and the single brn/gold in the bottom.
Which way is correct??? It’s a 15XT 1996 with a fourth axis.
Other information… All amps turned green when jog was hit and then go to red then off shortly after. All slot boards are flashing red.
I look at the schematics but can’t see anything that helps…
Steve… AKA dummy (chair)

[Dyad1]

Double wire above and single wire at bottom.

Sorry for the short answer, In a big to get out of here.

Gary

[scadvice]

I just got back from a short vacation to the backcountry fly fishing and there was no e-mail connection. As we were heading out I stopped at the shop and put the wires in the correct plug positions and everything is back to normal.
However, cleaning and reseating the 1010 boards didn't fix the X axis slight whining problem.

Neal,
Thanks again for your advice and I'll be checking the easy stuff first you suggested, coupling and so forth. If none of that works, are you suggesting to replace the resolver next, and is it worth trying to clean it first?
Steve

[Neal]

Steve--
You can try cleaning the resolver first. It might extend its life some but if that is the problem it is only a temp solution. Before you replace the motor, try swapping amps to see if it follows the amp.

Neal

[scadvice]

Today I put back together the tool changer and realigned it. It was not as hard as I thought it would be. The only problem I came up against was the balls that retain the tool stud were corroded and stuck in the open position. I had my partner hold the tool in out button and I held a tool holder up in the pocket and gave it a sharp rap with a dead blow hammer and …problem fixed added a little oil and solvent to the balls. Tomorrow I’ll cycle the changer 100 cycles to be sure it’s good to go.
Neal,
I've made progress on the whining x axis . First, I looked at the coupler and it looks near new. (The clock shows about 700hrs of run time and 4800 of on time. I know/believe these numbers can be zeroed). I switched the New Glentex amp (x axis)with the factory amp on the y axis. Hummmm... Now the X-axis seems quiet. OK... I put my ear up to and against the y-axis motor and it's quiet... all I can hear are the fans out of the cabinet above me. So the Glentex amp works fine on that axis. Now I walk over to the X axis which seems quiet from 3 feet away and put my ear against that motor... well... well... I can hear the same noise/whine I heard before with the New Glentec amp ... just a whole lot quieter. Switch back the amps and the whine is back on the x-axis.
So… should I make the assumption that it most likely is a resolver starting to fail or worst yet a servo motor along with the resolver? I think I should order a new resolver, but would it be of value to pull the resolver off the y-axis servo and see if solves the x axis problem or just go for the new resolver? Just wondering?
I just accepted 12K worth of work to start on the first week of Aug. Turned down 50k in the last three months… it’s time to stop doing that…and get this machine going.
Thanks for any and all help.
Steve.

[scadvice]

OK…just found out that Glentex amps have a twelve turn pot on the comp. I was thinking three turn. So… I’ll try and re-adjust the comp this weekend and post back on fixing the whine in the X-axis DC servo.
Also, in my last post... I said the stud retaining balls were stuck in the open position...that was wrong... they would be in the retaining postion or pushed all the way inward (i.e. without a toolholder in the spindle)...and stuck there.(nuts)
Steve

[scadvice]

Turned the comp pot ccw and the servo will respond but the response is to really get loud. Turned the pot clock wise (twenty turns!) and it goes back to a mild whine(at about eight turns) and will not get better. I would have thought a twelve turn pot would only turn 12 turns??? I guess not! Would I be correct in assuming, at this point, the resolver is bad??? Based on the other things I've done in the post below??
Steve

[scadvice]

But, everything else seems fine. Had to re-learn Fadalese commands, they've changed a few things... but still easy once I figured it out. I also had to input the test program by hand because I haven't made up a cable or installed a usb port on it yet. The program had three tool changes, milling, drilling, R-tap, and speed changes Hi and Low. Ran 50 cycles without a hitch (150 tool changes). So, Its good to go, accept for changing out the x axis resolver. Hope that fixes the whine. I hooked up the 4th and jogged it with no problems.
I'm up and running on a machine that was a dirty mess and sat in storage for 8 YEARS!!:banana: Total cost to redo so far about 1900 bucks plus 100 hours. I assume the resolver is about 300 bucks for a total of $2200. I post pictures next week and update on the whine fix. It looks so new I hate to use it! :cheers:
Steve

[Neal]

Steve--
Good work! Don't forget to verify the axis loop gain after replacing the resolver. It may need touching up.

Neal

[scadvice]

... about a half hour talk'in about 'the good ol days' with David de Caussin (Jr) at VMC Electric, and even though he just sold me the resolver he thinks my problem is a dirty tach and I should clean it not replace the resolver. Thanks David, I always enjoy our conversations.
I'll keep you all posted on the results.
Steve.

[scadvice]

Cleaned the Tach, though it didn't look like it needed cleaning, used alcohol. The brushes are like new 3/8 of an inch long. It was a good exercise, but without results, I readjusting the comp and it still whines. It would be nice to pull it all apart and high pot the motor. Can you high pot a Tach?? I don't know?? Ran another 50 cycles of the program without problems. I'm running out of ideas, I'm with David on this, I cannot see how it could be the resolver and I'm beginning to suspect the motor. I may just consider letting it whine and run it til it quits. Ideas are welcome from everyone out there...
Steve

[alex gitzel]

I had a 4th axis motor that was whining one time but it was also osolating very slightly barely noticalbe and the issue was that the solid state relay was going bad so the amp and motor were getting variable voltages.you should be able to jumper the two large screws on the ssr #3+4 to test this BUT BE AWARE THAT THE E-STOP WILL BE BYPASSED AND WILL NOT SHUT THE AMPS DOWN so have someone at the knife switch to kill it if needed, i have a contactor on my van that i test with so if you have one that would be safer.there are 2 ssr on your machine so do both.I do have a wiring diagram for the contactor setup if you need it send me an email adress.I am not sure that this is the issue but is something to look at.