[cornbinder23]

Hello, my name is JT
I am planning a cnc build utilizing all the great information found right here
I have been lurking for some time and am excited about this build
I am not completely new but pretty close, have had some experience with cnc routers, and have been an OLD SCHOOL machinist/millwright for 16 yrs

Now first question

what is the difference in the 2 mills, according to the salesman grizzly's QC is way better than HF but it makes me think that just because they have faith in a QC person checking the units going to grizzly that are coming off of the same production line as the ones destined for HF that they are any better?

I live 10 mi away from Grizzly and 100 mi away from HF would love to buy the x3 from grizzly but they wont budge on the price (you never get a deal unless you ask for one!) so it looks like I am driving south

second question
I thought about the LM 25 but the convenience of the cnc fusion kit is looking pretty good does anyone make a ballscrew conversion for the LM 25

lastly

Keling has a G540 3 axis package with 387's and 906 but i read that the 381's are better suited for the X3
and would this set-up work on the LM25?

sorry for all the questions all at once but there will definitley be MORE!!!!

[Jeff Davis]

Hope the build goes well for you!

I bought the grizzly X3 and did not have any major problems. The finished conversion has been a ball to play with. I haven't experienced warranty issues but from what others post Grizzly has superior customer service if you do happen to have a problem.

You are correct about the 381's and the 906 motors with the G540. Just buy all the parts separate no huge savings for the package. And the 381's are a better fit inductance /power wise for the G540.

To many questions? Not even close Tyber is the King of questions



Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi JT. Welcome to the Zone!

The old adage: You get what you pay for, comes to mind.

Better QC means the machine will likely work well from day one. That being said, I've heard few reports of problems with the HF X3.

The warranty differences though, especially for you, who live so far from a HF, are huge.

Harbor freight guarantees the X3 for 90 days. During that 90 days, if you return the mill, they will give (or order) you a new one. If you buy the extended warranty, then this extends the time within which you can lug it back for a new one. They don't stock parts, and when you need to buy them it takes ~6 months on a slow boat from China.

Now if you are going to modify the mill, you might just negate even that warranty.

Griz, on the other hand, warrants THEIR x3 for one year. If something breaks during that time, you don't have to return it--Just call them, tell them what happened, and they will usually send the needed parts right out from their stock.

I'm not a fan of the HF warranty. After I've got my 400 plus pound mill CNCd, modified the way I want it, mounted into an enclosure and doing production work, the last thing I want to do is haul it back for an exchange and start over. I think Some things are worth the extra money--but that's just me.

However, it's just hard to ignore the cost savings of the 20% off HF coupon. You will find one on page 88 of the January Popular Mechanics. I would advise calling the store before setting off though--Some managers will not honor the coupon on ordered items.

Wow! John got on that 906 oz G540 kit pretty quick. I invented that 6 months ago, but it was only proved out about a month ago. Don't forget you need a special pulley for the CNCFusion kit with that 906.

The 381s are definitely a little bit better than 387s, but John has to move his stock. You can mix and match and build your own kit--Kit prices are virtually the same as individual prices.

This is the X3 package that I recommend:

http://crevicereamer.com/Page_16.html

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

Lol! Fitting that Jeff got in ahead of me. HE was the first intrepid pioneer to prove out the 906/G540 X3 concept.

CR.

[cornbinder23]

i agree with the you get what you pay for philosophy
is there a grizzly coupon out there anywhere????????
also made my first mistake with the process, I downloaded the bobcad demo and gave them my PHONE NUMBER!!! 18 calls in 7 days VERY dedicated sales staff!!!!!
any suggestions on less expensive cad/cam solutions
tried viacad and love it but will it ouput dxf?

[TOTALLYRC]

i agree with the you get what you pay for philosophy
is there a grizzly coupon out there anywhere????????
also made my first mistake with the process, I downloaded the bobcad demo and gave them my PHONE NUMBER!!! 18 calls in 7 days VERY dedicated sales staff!!!!!
any suggestions on less expensive cad/cam solutions
tried viacad and love it but will it ouput dxf?

Viacad has a number of import and export options and dxf is one of them.
I also really like Viacad and it oputs the dxf'x for me just fine.
I am using Deskcnc for my cam software as I already own it to run my router.

Mike

[BobWarfield]

One thing to think about WRT how much "quality" you should worry about in your CNC conversion candidate: you will be replacing a lot of the parts that need the quality.

Seriously, you're going to strip the thing down to where there isn't much left but the cast iron and spindle + motor. The rest all goes with a ballscrew conversion.

Now, the risk there, it seems to me, is in the spindle. But how often do you hear about a spindle being bad? Plus, you're going to pick it up, so hopefully you can inspect it carefully and avoid the damage that shipping often causes. 90 days warranty should be plenty of time to determine that there are no major cracks or straightness issues with the cast iron and that the spindle works.

I'd tram it, square it, shim it, or whatever ASAP until it is really square, and then do some manual machining to verify all is well. That'd get done in the first couple weekends, after which I'd tear it all apart for careful inspection and then begin the conversion.

If it was me, I'd go HF and not worry about Grizzly. BTW, if you're worried about parts, Grizzly will still sell them to you regardless of whether you bought I mill from them. I've ordered various parts from the for machines I didn't even own so I could use them in projects. They've also thoughtfully published great documentation.

Just sayin'!

Cheers,

BW

[yantra3d]

I want to chime in on this and give my 2 cents... hopefully I won't offend anyone! Let me start by saying that I have purchased and used a lot of HF products over the last several years (7x10 lathe, 6" bandsaw, air compressor, etc...) and I own a Grizzly X3. I have visited the main Grizzly headquarters in MO and can say that there is clearly a difference between the two companies in terms of how they operate (company policy) and the quality of their products.

HF is nothing more than a discount store that purchases deals on bulk products that are not fit to meet the qualifications of MOST distributors that handle the products they offer.

Have you ever noticed that almost every single item you buy from HF has some sort of defect to it? Usually it's something minor that can be easily "fixed" which means that you still have the satisfaction of getting a bargain on what you purchased which can be rewarding if you like to discover and repair defected parts, "hey check this out! I bought this for half price and fixed this one little bit and now it's as good as the expensive one!" That may be fine for smaller items that are not so important. However, I believe this is not a good practice when it comes to bigger machines like the x3.

I truly believe that HF makes it's business from buying up batches of rejects (defects) and then reselling them at discounted prices. This is not a good policy if you are looking for a quality machine imo. In fact, I think this is the very opposite of what Grizzly does when purchasing their machines.

Grizzly, unlike HF, is a machine tool supplier that takes some pride in their products and have an awareness regarding the importance of selling (and supporting) a quality product to it's customers.

It is not uncommon in business for certain companies to make arrangements to have the first pick or choice from a manufacturer and I believe that Grizzly does this. They pay more (than HF does) to get the machines that meet their requirements or standards so they can sell something that is worthy of their name brand (and will not cause them a headache in customer complaints and returns, etc...). Alternately, I think that HF picks up whatever is left behind (after the top distributors get their pick) for a discounted price and then pass that on to the consumer for less.

To give an example; I have heard several reports from people claiming that their ways were so rough that they had to rework them in order to get smooth travel. I have NEVER heard anyone complain about this with a Grizzly. My Grizzly definitely does not have this problem. This leads me to believe that my assumption is accurate.

Also, this may sound like complete BS to many but after viewing an X3 at a local HF store I believe that I could tell a difference in quality in comparison to my Grizzly. I can't put my finger on it but I really could tell a difference of some kind. But, maybe it's just the paint job! lol

Hope I haven't offended anyone.

Good luck on your purchase!

[cornbinder23]

thanks for the good info guys
My plan was to leave it in the crate till all supplies arrive,
but I already had my doubts that I was going to be able to do that
(instant gratification kinda guy)
so I will take your advice Bob and square everything up, it just means I
will have to buy2 cases of beer for the 2 times i will have to have a friend help me move the components
also, I see an amazing price difference between the cncfusion kit and the promica kit, any benifits to either?

will have my electronics soon, from keling, you purchase MACH 3 at a
discounted price when you purchase electronics from them, but do you have to purchase the Mach at the same time as the electronics or can I purchase
it a couple of weeks later at the discount price?

[Jeff Davis]

Don't get it dialed in to tight, to install the conversion you will end up taking almost everything apart. If you decide on the fusion kit this may help some http://dcfcok.com/hobby/ . The wait time is good to do the tear down as outlined by http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...on%20Guide.pdf Just skip the rebuild part. During the wait time I went the extra mile and lapped my ways.

I can't comment on the Promicia since I have never done a conversion with one, but it does look pretty.

Jeff

[BobWarfield]

By all means do the tear down and clean up, but be sure you reassemble and dial it in too. The purpose is to evaluate with some real measurements and experience with it just how straight the cast iron is and how well the ways are functioning.

BW

[cornbinder23]

I just purchased the electronics package per CR's advice Keling does not show the 381 as an in stock stepper hopefully they have the 381 in stock
they have the 382's in stock on the steppers in stock page

I have decided to go with the grizzly mainly for convenience and that instant gratification thing lol

gotta love my union, made enough to almost pay for the cnc fusion kit working OT on thanksgiving.... triple time !!!

[cornbinder23]

just emailed keling and asked for no substitutions based on some of the experiences i have read others have had and less than 5 minutes later i got a response and this is after 5 pm PST thats GREAT service looking forward to doing business with them again

[Jeff Davis]

Hard to part with the $$ but after you cut your first part it all seems worth it.

Were the 381's in stock? The page was the same way when I ordered mine but they were in stock.

The fun begins keep us informed.

Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

John usually ships same day. You may well have everything you ordered by Monday. I have bought a lot of stuff from him, and he has never failed to surprise me with the speed of his service.

The 381s didn't show in stock when I bought mine either, but the showed up 2 days later at my door. They are LONG little buggers, about 1/2" longer than the 387s.

I doubt you'll ever regret buying the Grizzly. I never have.

Don't forget to get the new Z pulley. It will just substitute for the motor pulley that CNC Fusion will send you. You'll have to wait at least a week for the Fusion kit. Maybe I can get the travel extensions guide onto the web site by then.

CR.

[cornbinder23]

checked my email all electronics shipped on saturday!!!!!!!!
KELING ROCKS!!!!!!

[cornbinder23]

definitely a noob question but how d0 you come up with the sizing on the resistors for the keling 381& 906?
can i source them at radio shack, or can i add them up to get the required resistance?
i have lots of 1/4 w 3.3k and 3.9k laying around the shop
going to try and get everything hooked up for a free air trial this weelend

[Jeff Davis]

Just put 3.3K on all axis you will loose just a bit of power. I just used some 3.3K's I had laying around and it worked just fine. If you want to do it right go and buy (3) 200 ohm resistors at Radio Shack and put them in series with the 3.3K resistors you have.


Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

You can add them up to get the 3.5K or less. Leaving the resistor out entirely limits the Amps to 3.5, but turns OFF the Idle Current Limiting.

3.48K resistors available at Digikey.

You will need one of THESE 1/4 Watt 3.48K resistors for each 381 or 387:

3.48KXBK-ND

They only come in a pack of five, so about $1 for 10. With shipping it's about $3.50

http://digikey.com/

CR.

[cornbinder23]

does the 906oz in stepper need the resistor?