[rocket67]

Hi, All

Rocket, This is very interesting thread. and I hope you get a lots of posts.
Personally I would like to know who bought which machine from whom. etc...

Just briefly describe myself. I'm in Sydney Australia.
My cultural background is Japanese.( You can tell by my bad English )
I run small cabinetmaking/woodworking business in Northern beaches area.
I placed the order for Excitech SHM1212 late August this year. my sales rep is Jerry.
I had good communication(most in Email) with Jerry till I made full payment.
After that, communication gets very slow.(less reply from Jerry)

I had the machine delivered on 19 Nov.
Believe or not, they sent me a wrong machine!! There was SHG1212 in the crate.
They have same size table but Excitech stated SHG is sign making machine and SHM is woodworking machine.There are some difference in the spec.
After a lots of emails to Jerry,(I received only few reply) he promised me to replace the machine. Now I have to wait again.
That's all I can tell you right now.
Obviously I've been having very very distressful time. Though I can't tell you whether It was good or not for me to buying machine from China.

I'll let you guys know how things went once every thing sorted out.

bananafish, What precisely is the difference between the SHG and SHM?

How about posting some photos?

Sorry to hear it has not gone smoothly, but is there REALLY a difference that is going to make things difficult for you?

LOL with getting Jerry to replace the machine, but i hope it works out ok for you.

Rocket.

[bananafish]

Hi,Rocket

Difference between SHG and SHM is quite significant.
Please refer their web site for the detail.
http://www.sh-router.com/shg1212.asp
They don't have SHM1212 on the web but.

My main concern is the height of the gantry. SHG is 120mm and SHM has 220mm gantry. Also SHG is ball screw drive, SHM is rack and pinion gear drive.

When I opened the crate, the machine was in very good condition and I saw some improvement they made to this machine. ( grease nipple to liner bearing.)
Unfortunately it was wrong model.

I don't know how this could have happened.
This is something you don't want to happening to your purchase.
But at least Jerry promised to get me the right machine.
I just want to receive what I have ordered and paid for.
I'll see how they handle this problem and let you guys know.

[mecanicu]

I'm from Romania and i have a sign's/advertising company. My cnc is a excitech SHM2030A model with a HSD 6kw spindle italy, for about 3 year's. It's working perfect. Now i'm upgrade to 4th axis and my contact from excitech it's Diana (sale's director) and li maxry (i think administrator). i don't have any problem contact them day and night . they resolved all my small problem's or answer to all my question...so contact them if you need somenthing.

In conclusion i'm very happy with my cnc and with excitech.

[bananafish]

Hi, Mecanicu

Are you going to buy another machine from Excitech?
Who's your contact sales person?

I know Tany and Maxry have left Excitech while ago.
Is any English speaker in the company apart from Jerry?

[mecanicu]

Hi, Mecanicu

Are you going to buy another machine from Excitech?
Who's your contact sales person?

I know Tany and Maxry have left Excitech while ago.
Is any English speaker in the company apart from Jerry?

You need to contact Diana the sale's director. she will help you...
TigerTec is Excitech now and the sale's director is Diana...she is on MSN and SKYPE everyday. it is simple to speak directly.

Regarding buying another cnc from them YES if i expend my company...maybe next year in summer i will buy a custom made laser 1500w 1500x2500 travel size from them

[rocket67]

:violin:

My understanding is this - Last year there was an exodus from sh-cnc. This involved sales people and also production staff.

Some went to Quick CNC and others formed TigerTech. Now mecanicu informs us that Tigertech has taken over Excitech - which up until now was manufactured by sh-cnc. So where does this leave bananafish who was supplied an incorrect machine? Who will take responsibility?

The situation for us Westerners is looking murky. I for one want to know just who are the actual Manufacturers in China?

Forum Member Mano is having trouble getting his Maxicam ( or is it an Excitech? )running.

A Quick check on alibaba.com and tradekey shows no less than 25 suppliers claiming to be Manufacturers in China. Yet the machines look similar - Badge Engineering is obvious. B/S is therefore obvious as well!!!

So precisely which businesses ARE the ACTUAL Manufacturers in China?

It has been suggested to me that the Tables are fabricated by a particular business, and then other businesses finish them off under the Auspices of Manufacturers. No problem if this is the case. But i want to know - as do others - who are the actual manufacturers in China? I will engage a Buyer in China to get to the bottom of it. Watch this space!

Rocket.

[priestwood]

hi rocket,

no single company manufactures CNC machines in china. i can tell you reliably that all the companies we buy from also buy the parts from local fabricators all around china. there are fabricators who are specialised in production of each part of the machine. all the marketing companies do is to buy from various fabricators and couple in their workshops. they dont even need a big production plant, the bigger companies stock alot of parts and keep while the smaller companies buy and assemble when they have orders. this is why it is easy for some staff to leave bigger companies and start selling CNC machines immediately. if you buy frame and gantry from thesame fabricators, then they must look alike, that is the reason that the brands look similar.

priestwood

[Metalmog]

I bought a 2x3ft router with all the trimmings about 8 months ago.

First off, I understand that the way these guys actually work is a bit foreign to us westerners as far as a business model is concerned. It's more like one large co-operative. There is a central sourcing and purchasing section, one huge warehouse. Then there are the individual builders in their shops who draw from the central warehouse. Sales and marketing are separate pieces, shipping sections etc... One huge big happy family. Finances are also of a pooled nature. They effectively slice out all middle men as we understand it, hence the cheap prices - apart from the low labour costs.

It was really easy to order and pay for the machine. Shipping costs where very low and arranged by manufacturer!!!. Email communications was good. Paid in full upfront. Then the problems started.

It was shipped halfway around the world and ended up 1000km from where I live. The local shippers where a real headache & real leeches. The manufacturer was very helpful and got it sent back. Needles to say it cost them all their profit and then some. Kudos to them, they took responsibility no argument. It arrived two months late - the crating all banged up but machine was fine.

Within the first month X axis stepper driver packed up. Shipping a replacement no problem, but the manufacturer now loaded the freight so it was cheaper just to buy a new one locally. Type3 was a real challenge to setup and required a few back and forths - finally getting an English manual.

The control panel was nicely wired, well labeled. The table was 2mm out of alignment front to back 0.5mm left the right. The water cooled spindle also. There was no cooling system for the spindle, so had to make one. The machine is very heavily built. I found the spindle to be very smooth running and very quite with plenty of power, quite impressed but it has not really worked hard yet. Pity it was wired 3 speed, full bore, trickle and stop. Full speed control capability seems there, but not wired right? Perhaps somebody can help me out with this one? Lots of other issues but enough of that.

The long and short of it, a very good set of castings. Be prepared to spend time getting things right and don't be in a hurry. It is always a tradeoff, buy a good local machine at three times with little commissioning hassles or pay much less but spend the time fixing it.

Next time, I not pay in full up front if I can help it!

[bananafish]

Metalmog You picked the right company to deal with.
which one is that?

[Metalmog]

It was XYZ Tech in Jinan (www.xyz-tech.com). My contact was Tony, who actually writes good English. Shipping docs where sent courier, so machine could be cleared through customes when it arrived - no problems on that score.

He also sent me good photos of the machine being built (I did ask though). They apparently moved into a new building with concrete floors etc. The factory looks fine on the photos.

I use a number of CAD/Cam packeages - Type3, CadLink (EngraveLab), Alibre, Camsoft, Kipware, BobCad/Cam V23 (most recent). Type3 (Chinese) is really a very powerfull package, but a old version (like about 3 versions behind) . I don't find it very buggy once one understands it. For the price it is really good, but not as easy and intuitive to use as say Engravelab (but again only a third of the price). Upgrading it is going to cost an arm and a leg (as in >$2,000) but is still half of Mastercam. I would consider these two to be in the same ballpark. Type3 (the latest version) seems to have some very nice machining stratagies and simulation features. One thing though, Mastercam/ArtCam service and support seems streets ahead of Type3 in North America.

You can get the machines in two control versions - DSP controller with different memory capacities and March3. Each has their good & bad points.

The 0609 router you see on their web site, is the machine they built for me.

[Larken]

You know, someone in Australia should start building a Good affordable cnc router. It seems that most of the Chinese machines go there.
It shouldn't be that hard to produce a really good 4x8 machine for under $20K ($us)

It would help your economy and not china's. Ive got nothing against China, but i know there are a lot of smart people in Australia.

What do you pay for a 4x8 exitech ?

[rocket67]

Hi Larken, There are some manufacturers in australia who build some excellent machines. Problem is Labour costs. Skilled people would be wanting to earn upwards of $30 per hour plus benefits. Then there is Workcover and a multitude of other costs for small business.
The end result is the price of a 1200 x 2400 CNC Router manufactured locally is about $68,000. I should also point out that that price includes an Auto Tool Changer and Vacuum Pump.
I am not aware of a locally made machine that is built without a Auto Tool Changer.

The 1200 x 2400 Chinese built machine with 3KW Manual Tool Changer Spindle and T Slot Table is a bit under $6,000. Add about $3,500 for Shipping and taxes. Therefore the Total landed price is under $10,000.
No Aussie Manufacturer can compete with that.

Our first CNC Router is a 1500 x 3000 machine with HSD Spindle, Vacuum Table and Vacuum Pump. Total landed price for that was $20,000.

There is an Aussie Woodworking supply business that is now importing smaller machines from the USA, but i have not seen their prices yet.

If a local business was to set up here and become a reseller for the Chinese machines - a lot of the price advantage is gone. There are in fact a couple on Ebay, but if you can buy direct from China and save a good $5,000 - then that is how most people would make their purchase.

Rocket.

[Larken]

Don't compare prices of a machine with a Italian spindle and a tool changer with a machine that has a china spindle and no tool changer.
Any machine with a full Toolchanger is a professional built and much more expensive than basic cnc router.


I bet it you buy a basic 1200 x 2400 domestic with No spindle you can get a machine for a under $18K. Then add a cheap spindle to it if thats what you prefer.

You know that a china spindle won't last very long compared to a Colombo or HSD or even a Portercable
I've been called to fix china machines here in canada with those china inverters and the best thing to do is pull it off toss it. Then put a japanese inverter that are about the same price.

Why are labour cost so high there. Are they all union? I pay about $14/hour in my shop.

[rocket67]

Don't compare prices of a machine with a Italian spindle and a tool changer with a machine that has a china spindle and no tool changer.
Any machine with a full Toolchanger is a professional built and much more expensive than basic cnc router.


I bet it you buy a basic 1200 x 2400 domestic with No spindle you can get a machine for a under $18K. Then add a cheap spindle to it if thats what you prefer.

You know that a china spindle won't last very long compared to a Colombo or HSD or even a Portercable
I've been called to fix china machines here in canada with those china inverters and the best thing to do is pull it off toss it. Then put a japanese inverter that are about the same price.

Why are labour cost so high there. Are they all union? I pay about $14/hour in my shop.

Your inference that Chinese machines are inferior is way off the mark!

" Quote -Don't compare prices of a machine with a Italian spindle and a tool changer with a machine that has a china spindle and no tool changer.
Any machine with a full Toolchanger is a professional built and much more expensive than basic cnc router." End Quote.

As i stated previously - Our first machine purchased has a HSD Spindle. It is a 1500 x 3000 machine with Manual Tool Changer and cost us $20,000 landed. Bargain in my book!!! We have had it in operation for near on 2 years. It is an absolute ripper, RELIABLE machine!

Why would i want to pay $18,000 for a 1200 x 2400 machine without a Spindle? I can buy a 1200 x 2400 machine with a Spindle for under $10,000 Landed and in our workshop. ( and i did just that! )

You bung crap on the Chinese inverters - yet they are either Delta or Fuling brand. You probably use the same ones on USA manufactured machines.

Labour costs are so high here due to the greed that exists in our Western Societies. Probably a result of the Union movement. The same greed that has Websites built by a professional here for $2,500 -$3,000 when you can get one built by an Indian for $200. I doubt that a skilled person here would get out of bed in the morning for $14 per hour.

Anyway, i do not wish to argue with you. I would rather buy local myself if the price is reasonable.

But i can confirm that the Chinese machines that i have bought are very strong machines, extremely well built and incredible value for money!

FWIW, a 1300 x 2500 CNC Router with 8 piece Carousel Tool changer, Yaskawa Servo Motor, Vacuum Table and Pump is USD $25,000.

Rocket.

[tosto]

Hello everyone! Please help!!!
I'm beginner and want to learn CNC as hobby. I bought my router in China, cheap, it came oversea ok, few parts had some age marks already (it suppose to be new), like I said, it was affordable for me. (nuts)
I can't get it to run and guy who sold it to me doesn't reply (I think he is on vacations).
It suppose to work with software called NCstudio that I installed, unfortunately it ask for some hardware before it can start (I think it doesn't work with parallel connector as Mach3 does). I would like to use Mach3 software with parallel port connection. I'm trying to set pins for motor outputs with no luck.
Can somebody identify this breakout board? There is no manufacturer id.
http://www.gensol.eu/BO_board.JPG
and possibly give me some advice? Thank you.

[joemic]

Hello everyone! Please help!!!
I'm beginner and want to learn CNC as hobby. I bought my router in China, cheap, it came oversea ok, few parts had some age marks already (it suppose to be new), like I said, it was affordable for me. (nuts)
I can't get it to run and guy who sold it to me doesn't reply (I think he is on vacations).
It suppose to work with software called NCstudio that I installed, unfortunately it ask for some hardware before it can start (I think it doesn't work with parallel connector as Mach3 does). I would like to use Mach3 software with parallel port connection. I'm trying to set pins for motor outputs with no luck.
Can somebody identify this breakout board? There is no manufacturer id. ore.
http://www.gensol.eu/BO_board.JPG
and possibly give me some advice? Thank you.

I never see the board before. For the normal DSP system, you will found the DSP wording on the board.
If you want to use Mach3, I suggest you to change the board to PMDX122 from USA, cheap and work great with mach3.
You need to trace out the wire for motor driver ( usually 3 wire each drive), wire for sensor X,Y,Z . PMDX122 can support 12Vdc Sensor.

Bananfish, I agree with Jon. Try to look for the good buyer from Alibaba, if anything happen report it to Alibaba.

[tosto]

I never see the board before. For the normal DSP system, you will found the DSP wording on the board.
If you want to use Mach3, I suggest you to change the board to PMDX122 from USA, cheap and work great with mach3.
You need to trace out the wire for motor driver ( usually 3 wire each drive), wire for sensor X,Y,Z . PMDX122 can support 12Vdc Sensor.

Bananfish, I agree with Jon. Try to look for the good buyer from Alibaba, if anything happen report it to Alibaba.

Thank you all for advice and sorry for late reply, my better half still sets the "more important" priorities for me. (chair)
Problem still exist, so I decided to buy suggested control board and have someone to hook it up for me. I will report problem to Alibaba, since the seller stopped replying.

[klevabuga]

I purchased a laser from York Laser in China. I saved myself some serious dollars by doing that. There were several faults with the machine which i had to sort out myself, as York Laser had some serious customer service issues.
I made many complaints to York laser, but to their credit they have worked extremely hard to rectify all the issues i raised. Customer service is now of a high standard with inquiries answered promptly. They have now provided me with all the parts i required, and fully compensated me for the extra costs i incurred. York Laser have even completely re-designed all their laser engravers/cutters to eliminated all of the design weaknesses i advised them of.
The build quality has significantly improved also. The new range of Laser Engravers look fantastic and i am now intent on purchasing another unit from York Laser. This Company deserves a pat on the back for the effort they have put in to produce a good machine at a very affordable price.