[jevs]

I have a 1978 Pratt & Whitney Tapemate C. From what Fanuc tells me it is a Fanuc 5 controller. The problem is the machine lost its memory due to not being used and a dead memory battery. The first 4 parameters for the machine must be inserted by tape. I either dont have the right tape or am doing it wrong, but I cannot get those 4 parameters in the machine. I am thinking about just dumping the Fanuc 5 and going with something like camsoft. Can camsoft bypass everything and just go straight to my drivers. I was thinking of bypassing the tape reader with a BTR, but it seems silly to waste the money since if anything goes wrong with the controller it is obsolete and then so would be the BTR. I am thinking it would be better to just modernize the machine and get rid of the fanuc controller. The machine is in excellent condition. Also, I believe the Fanuc 5 will only allow 2 axis to move at the same time. This would really hinder 3D work I think. Would camsoft allow me to run all 3 axis at the same time? Also, this machine has a tool changer that I would like to use. Can camsoft operate that? Any info is appreciated as I am a newbie to all this, but learning fast. How much is camsoft? How does it compare to Mach2, Flashcut, or others out there? Price is a major major concern. This is more of a hobby now, but I hope I can make some money at it someday.

Thanks

[Al_The_Man]

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for, the difference between the two systems is that with the Camsoft package, all the motion control is done on a motion control card within the PC that acts to some degree separate from the PC and handles the motion control independantly by inputing encoders and outputting amplifier signals to close the loop. Other systems that are cheaper use the parallel port of the PC to output step and direction signals to individual amplifiers. There is a learing curve to all the above, if you have not been exposed to CNC architecture before.
Also, incidentally, you should check to see if you Fanuc motors have encoder or resolver feedback, as resolver use was common on that vintage, if so you will need to upgrade to encoders to use the existing DC motors.
The motion card that Camsoft use are Galil and can be found readily available on ebay for good prices e.g.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...873612037&rd=1
BTW if you want to get a feel for what it takes to tune a system etc, you can see 'Live' lectures and demonstrations by the originator of Galil, Dr Jacob Tal on the Galil web site. http://www.galilmc.com/
Al

[jevs]

From what I understand Mach2, Flashcut etc will not take any feedback from the machine on postition? So it will not know whre the machine actually is, only where it told it to go? Does this create major problems? I am trying to go as cheep as possible but still have a decent operating machine.

[Al_The_Man]

Any software that will not accept feedback, usually uses stepper motors for control as feedback is not required. The downside is the software makes an assumption where the motor is, based on the number of steps output to the motor amlifier, without knowing for sure where it is. This type of system is probabally your cheapest way to go, even if you have to replace the motors with steppers, it depends on what size the existing motors are.
Al

[HillBilly]

There is also DC servo drives (Gecko,Rutex, ect.). that you can use with your exiting DC motors and encoders that accept step/dir signals from the software (CamSoft, Mach, ect.). These drives close the servo loop and send a fault signal back to the software when X amount of error developes. You will not be able to see following error at the control with this type of setup.

Darek

[jevs]

I am having a hard time picking a control option and seem to be going in circles so I will just be blunt. Is Camsoft better than Mach2? My machine is not really a hobby size machine, it was built for production.

[Jim Cooper]

Jevs,

You're looking at two totally different types of systems.

Mach2 and CamSoft aren't in the league. Mach2 is targeted more towards hobbyist were CamSoft is for businesses or commercial machine tools, much like Fanuc, Allen Bradley, Seimens, Fagor, Anilam, ect...

There is a price difference, but the differences go on and on. CamSoft's features and methods of closing the servo loop and communicating with the drives far out weight any hobbyist shop system.

Businesses want to be able to call a company to support them and offer them a bundled package of hardware the software and be able to call one company for tech support. If need be have a service call to finish the installation.

The bottom line is if you're a business go with CamSoft and if it's a hobby then go with Mach2. I don't want to take any risk or chances in my shop.

Jim C.

[greggv]

I would definately check out DeltaTau. I have retrofit machines with their stuff in the past, and it is by far the most advanced stuff that you can buy. I think they have lower priced controls ($4500) and everything is customizable. I like it much more than camsoft, who seems to be pushing their cam program too hard. Good luck!

[jevs]

I think I am just going to buy a Rutex driver and play with Mach2 on one axis and see how it works. I talked to Tom (I think) at Rutex and he seems to think I should do this before spending a bunch of money. This way I am not out anything really if I do decide I don't like Mach2. I was looking at all the options you don't get with Camsoft lite and I definatly can't afford Camsoft Pro. Mach 2 is looking better and better especially after talking to Rutex. With thier drivers I can just get rid of all things fanuc and have a much simpler machine. He says the accuracy is very good and should not be aby kind of a hinderance. As far as software crashing and making the machine go berserk. I think a $130 breakout board with the charge pump circuit will elimintate that problem from ever happening. Right now he is out of the driver I need so I am just going to concentrate on setting up the machine getting the 3 phase converter tuned and getting a computer together. I am still concerned about operating the tool changer though.

[harolda]

you must temp short out a pin to insesrt the first four parameter i have one of those machines .Not a good machine for milling. I do not have that info on me right now

[jevs]

Whats wrong with using this machine for milling? I have not used it yet, so please elaborate.

[Citron]

Jevs,

I can't remember the web page where I saw it, but Camsoft does have a Hobby Shop system that adds back on many of the features that CNC Lite doesn't have. The systems price includes complete hardware and software in a package and is lower than buying all these items separately if you really needed CNC Professional to do tool changer, graphics, tool path creation or something.

All I could find was a system called the CS-209 on their Specials web page. I remember Camsoft sending me a email called Hobby Shop system which included the same items I think. When I looked at mach2 and Camsoft I thought about price first and decided the parts I make are too important to take chances on. My shop started out as a hobby but it is a real CNC machine shop now and I am glad I went with Camsoft. They have helped me though and I can be a nuisance some times. I can't risk my computer going berserk and I don't know if a $130 break out board was going to protect me if Windows locks up.

I am sure you can find the hobby page or just ask them to show you what features the hobby shop system adds back on.

Johnny

[jevs]

I pretty much decided I think I am going to use Mach2 first. I can try it for free and if it works well then there is no need to spend all that money on camsoft. I am going to get a driver board from Rutex and just play with 1 axis first. It would almost be silly not to try it. If it works well I will save thousands of dollars. I will be out nothing if it doesn't work well because the time spent is the same time spent with any setup that I can easily switch to later if need be. Plus I don't have to be nickel and dimed for every little software option. I hate that. Mach2 comes complete with the works and no BS. I won't have any limitations within the software that requires more money to use. From what I understand the breakout board pretty much kills the machine movement if the computer crashes? I am still concerned with the other post someone had about this machine not being good for milling though. I wish they would elaborate on that.

[Al_The_Man]

I am still concerned with the other post someone had about this machine not being good for milling though. I wish they would elaborate on that.

Untill the previous poster with experience of this particular machine gets back, I would hazzard a guess that the problem is possibly due to rigidity when machining, Machines that are built primarily for drilling and some machining, usually lack the rigidity required for anything but the lightest of machining, this is usually the first thing many find out when they try and convert drill machines to do cnc milling.
Al

[jevs]

As long is it can handle aluminum ok and some steel on occasions that is fine with me. It has got to be better than my mini mill or any mill you can buy new for $1000 or less right? I don't mind if the cuts need to be lighter and the part takes longer. I just wonder how the ridgidness compares to a regular bridgeport kneemill. The part where the spindle is on this machine is pretty heavy duty. The only thing I could see is maybe some ridgidty loss in the two columns it rides on?

[harolda]

Put a jumper on terminal that sez ild to ground turn on machine for a couple sec. Now make shure it is off take jumper off insert parameters.
with tape the book should tell you how to do it if not i will look ......
The mill is good for takeing light cuts or the retention knobs will break
off been there done oll the stuff ..... :cheers:

[jevs]

What and where are the retention knobs?

[harolda]

Thay are on the end of tool holder to hold them in on the tapemate
the head goes all the way up and releases tools

[jevs]

Where can I get tooling for this machine. I don't have anything that will hold collets. Or will I need to make something?

[redcobra]

biggest problem is lack of safety when using camsoft and galil. If the pc goes into blue screen and the axes are going somewhere it wont stop