[rppman]

I have been tring to gather as much information and feedback as possible about these two mills. I have plenty feedback about the Tormach but i am lacking feedback about the Novakon. I have read the " I have a novakon nm-200 ask me a question" thread and it sounds like he was having some spindle bearing problems. Yes, he got that problem resovled but in one of his last post he said he was only able to achieve 3000 rpm and they advertise 4000 as a max. really the only advantage i see with the novakon is the table size and travel. any input between these two machines would be greatly appriciated and thanks.

[rppman]

Anyone?

[fourwheeler]

I can't say about the Tormach but if customer service is a deciding factor just let me say that Novakon has gone above and beyond my expectations. I am a complete newbie to this game and they have been most helpful and understanding.

[D..]

I just ordered the Novakon NM200 instead of the Tormach preferring Novakon's use of Gecko drives, US made stepper motors, heavy linear bearings on the Z and of course the much larger size. The Tormach I believe uses Taiwan drives, smaller steppers and dovetails on the Z axis. These are choices I would make if I had the time to design and build a cnc mill from scratch.

I have a manual 10 by 58 knee mill that I intended to embellish with CNC but began to realize that I would be limiting its usefulness as a manual machine and spending more money for parts and time for design and assembly (time is also money).

For what it would cost me to convert the huge manual mill to CNC I get an entire second machine free in the bargain specialized for CNC with a monitor and computer loaded with all the software, a fourth axis, dividing head, tailstock, slightly less X and Y travel but nearly twice the Z. And they have it in stock right now. We'll see how long it takes to truck it from Toronto to Tucson.

[rppman]

Thanks for the input. Never realized those differences that you stated. I was just
Hoping to find more owners on here. Thanks again

[cjjonesarmory]

I believe the tormach model is the same as the novakon nm-135 with more bells and whistles. The NM-200 will give you a better base machine, you can upgrade it yourself over time. I'm sure that Novakon can put together an equivalent package to the tormach.

I have no experience with the Tormach, so I have no way to compare quality. Novakon is a good machine for the price.

[MichaelHenry]

I believe the tormach model is the same as the novakon nm-135 with more bells and whistles.

I've only seen a Tormach in person but am pretty sure that it is a completely different mill than the Novakon. The Novakon and Smithy do look like they are made from the same castings, however. Were you thinking of those two, perhaps?

Mike

[ihavenofish]

the tormach is nothing like any of the novakon machines. it sits somewhere between the nm135 and nm200 in terms of size and price.

[cjjonesarmory]

Yeah, I wasn't really sure about the Tormach. I heard somewhere that it was the same, and it looked the same to me, but my option wasn't based on any hard information. Sorry if my earlier response was misleading.

[keen]

Hi - Going off the pics the Novakon looks like it has 'grub screw adjusted gibs' ? - usually a sign of low build quality (Versus the Tormacs precision taper gibs)

[marcel beaudry]

Hello

The NOVAKON nm135 as taper gibs

Marcel Beaudry

[cjjonesarmory]

NM-200 has precision adjustable gibs. The x axis has adjustable straight gibs. I'd have to check, but I think the Y axis uses precision tapered gibs. The z axis uses a hardened linear bearing. Not sure if there are adjustments for the z, or if they are needed.

I really like the one-shot lube system too. I think this comes on all the machines using the same base casting (smithy, novakon, etc)...

[flick]

There is a lube system on the Tormach too. Oils 15 points with one pull of a plunger - 4 points on each dovetail, 1 for each ball nut.

[keen]

Yes the X axis does not look like taper gib - you can see the row of screws. I do like the long travel of the X and Y - but why is the Z so limited?

[howecnc]

there is 3.25" distance between the table and the spindle all the way down.
That should put you at 14.75" for Z and also add some rigidity.

Tormach has 16.5 inches of Z travel but how often do you have a 1" tool length to use all the travel?

[keen]

Depends on the type of work - In toolmaking I am often at the limit of my Tormach - wish I had more Z.

[howecnc]

I am just saying for a small "benchtop" machine it is probably a better design.

I would take a few less inches in Z to gain more in X and Y for a second machine.

I beggars could be choosers I would have a 5 axis machine in my basement.

[flick]

there is 3.25" distance between the table and the spindle all the way down.
That should put you at 14.75" for Z and also add some rigidity.

Tormach has 16.5 inches of Z travel but how often do you have a 1" tool length to use all the travel?

I do think you have a point here. The spindle nose is very close to the table at the extreme limit of the the Tormach's z travel, making the last few of those 16.5" all but useless.

As far as rigidity goes, we can really only speculate. All else being equal, it would seem that the larger envelope makes for a less rigid machine, but we can't just assume that all else is, in fact, equal. Personally, my gut feeling is that the rigidity of either is likely to be adequate for the spindle HP, and therefore basically a non-issue.

[motoguy]

Just wondering if we have any more information / users / experience in relation to the Novakon / Tormach discussion.

[stivep]

Let me put it this way.
Months of searching and learning. visiting Industrial Hobbies and others.

Should say it was 10-16 hours a day

I have paid for Novakon NM-200 last week.
The machine will be send this week

The larges XY of all of the competitive entities .( within the price range)

Mikini has 3 linear axis. Well old school say. Rigidity at XY can not be compromised.
The old German concept of dovetail works for any light or heavy machine.
Linear axis works when you have speed with load.(for that machine must have XY at best much heavier .Take viscosity of oil compare its compression factor in Tormach XY or Novacon. and benefit of dovetail ways.
How much time you lose in real day to day operation comparing to linear.
How much you gain?- Rigidity.
Novacon decided to go for Z linear. So did Smithy.
You all know what to think about Smithy............

Why Z?
Well - HEAD is moving vertically, and constantly puts weight with vector of force down.That explain presence of Compressed Nitrogen Gas Cylinder – The NM-200 mill uses a counter balance cylinder to
counter the weight of the Z axis assembly.


Both use the same cast iron So why in my mind Novacon is more superior?
It is American made!! to be more accurate Canadian American.
With European approach to the subject.
For all of us is not important who made that iron material as long as it is according to a spec.

So Look at the ways, XYZ axis of Smithy and compare it to Novakon.
question is if they use the same iron why than Novakon achieved more and better?

If used junked american iron was sold to China and returns as mill than the only difference is in finishing it .

Price of Chinese machinery is low did you ask yourself Why?

Thank you for your attention
Wes

PS: At the end you going to be left in your own shop or basement with your machine alone.
Everyone cares of you just to get your money
Than to do not lose future customers and get more for "extras"
All of that is the game.. Real time movie.
Do not get to spending and losing.

Novacon was my choice.Was I right?
I will let you know

Think about it.




And one more thing. If 10% of american population is absolutely brilliant in say.... mathematics .The Chinese 10% of brilliant is more than all of the population of USA and Canada Together.
So by that why we think that american product is better?

To design something on paper you need brain. Chinese have brains, a lot of them....More than we think and better.Look at american collages who are the students?

They do not have intensives,Their motivation is controlled by survival
The average wage in India is now around $145 per month, or $1,740 per year.
In China is much less!!!!!

Novakon made advantage of Chinese mathematician. The machine was design well.