[guru_florida]

I have a homemade CNC machine, moving table design, that I use mostly to cut aluminum. I have been using canned air for now to evac the swarf but it's getting pricy.

I bought some LOC-LINE flexible hoses in 1/4" (for cooland) and 1/2" for air (with assorted nozzles for lesser egress.) I just need to find the right air source and coolant pump.

Does anyone have ideas for such pumps that are cheap and easy to find. Maybe a fish tank pump would work for the coolant? Would a 120v air mattress pump be enough to evac the swarf?

Of course I will try what I have, but I thought I would throw the questions out there. I couldn't any related results after a few hours of searching. (Well, got caught up in some other threads too. CNCZone is so addictive!)


Thanks,
Colin

My machine:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3HpG3aTFM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3HpG3aTFM[/ame]

[vlmarshall]

Try a refrigeration compressor, from a 'fridge, or AC unit. I use one as a vacuum pump when pouring silicone molds, and I'm about to put another to work compressing air. It's nearly silent running, the disconnected exhaust and intake make more noise than the compressor and motor, just go listen to your refrigerator for a sample.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in YouTube and other how-to pages, the compressor would live a lot longer with an air filter and in-line air tool oiler before the intake. Just remember it's going to exhaust that oil as well.

[TOTALLYRC]

I use one from harbour freight, but I can't seem to find it on the site, they may have dropped it. I has a 2-3 gal tank that looks like a plastic milk case, but it is not open, and a nice little pump that works well on both my Taig and the pump works on my bridgeport.

I had to go with a bigger tank because the table will hold 2-3 gals of coolant, allowing the sump to go dry and interupt the coolant stream.

I also found this thread that discuses this same issue.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...?postid=576953

Get the sale fliers from harbour freight, Sears, Ocean state job lot, and other local outlets, a small compressor should be about $50 - $100 dollars.

Mike

[project5k]

if your going to run a flood coolant, would you really need compressed air too? i just have my flood cary off any swarf and i only use my compressed air to blow the part off after its done cutting, and i want it dry.

the little harbor freight pumps might be a good choice, but they cant produce much lift, around 6 feet - tube friction = about 5 feet... so, if the highest point in your tubing is more than 5 feet above the pump it might not work...

homedepot also sells some pumps, i think they call them little giant or something like that.. that would work as well... just remember that some of these pumps are magnetic drive, so if you end up with any ferous swarf, it'll stick to the innards of your pump and stop it.... so filter filter filter.

i had an old pressure washer pump laying around, so i just used that with one of thoes $15 router speed controlers from harbor freight so i can control the speed. Its a 3 piston positive displacement wabble plate type pump, and it'll squirt a 1/4 inch stream 20 feet in the air on full power.. ofcourse i dont need all that, but the pump was free, and i couldnt use it for pressure washing any more(it leaks a little and the mounts were broken off) so this seemed like the perfect use for it.

[Riceburner98]

Try a refrigeration compressor, from a 'fridge, or AC unit. I use one as a vacuum pump when pouring silicone molds, and I'm about to put another to work compressing air. It's nearly silent running, the disconnected exhaust and intake make more noise than the compressor and motor, just go listen to your refrigerator for a sample.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in YouTube and other how-to pages, the compressor would live a lot longer with an air filter and in-line air tool oiler before the intake. Just remember it's going to exhaust that oil as well.

I too use a refrig. (AC actually, but same..) pump for vacuuming and pressure-casting resins.. BUT.. I tried to use it as a swarf blower, and it just doesn't have the CFM to keep up. After about 10-15 mins. running, it gets SMOKING hot. They're silent because they're in a sealed enclosure. (because the whole pump is pressurized) That means there's no air circulation around the motor to keep it cool. They were designed to be cooled by the refrigerant passing through them, which then gets dumped by the evaporator in the frige or AC... For a small, high pressure (or vacuum) system they're great, they just weren't made to pump air for long...

I recently bought a commercial AC evacuation pump (Robinaire? used in repair shops) on eBay for a few hundred $ to use for the vacuum, and a 1/2HP compressor to use for continuous air. Problem is, they're LOUD, and I'm in an apartment. (which is why I liked the sealed AC compressor in the first place..) I have yet to build a sound-proof box for them both. I also bought a small Senco air tool compressor because they are one of the quietest I've heard, but it too couldn't keep up with the CFM needed for machining parts...

As mentioned before though, if you're running flood coolant on AL you likely won't need to have a full-time air supply. But nice to have if you decide to machine a block of wood or something. Wood + coolant = bad.

[project5k]

yea, theres a rule in my shop, there are absolutely no organics allowed anywhere near the coolant tank and drain pan.. no soda spills, or cig ashes or anything is allowed.. and i've had my coolant mixed up for around a year i guess at this point, and its still just as nice and sweet smelling and slick as it was the first day i mixed it...

[5artist5]

yea, theres a rule in my shop, there are absolutely no organics allowed anywhere near the coolant tank and drain pan.. no soda spills, or cig ashes or anything is allowed.. and i've had my coolant mixed up for around a year i guess at this point, and its still just as nice and sweet smelling and slick as it was the first day i mixed it...

What mix of coolant are you using?

[guru_florida]

I wasnt really planning on flood coolant, just a small steady amount of lubricant. I really shouldnt have said coolant but cutting lubricant instead. For now, I am using buttercut, a bacon-smelling type of tapping and cutting fluid. I apply it to the tool before cutting and also while I am cutting. I am hoping this is extending my tool life.

(Though the 1/4" is wide enough for flood I am sure.) My machine doesn't have a catch pan, filter, etc. I would like to go to flood eventually, but that means making the pan, filter attachments, return sump(?) and also encasing the machine to keep the coolant from going everywhere. Probably I will do this in the next year or so. I live in an apt too and my workspace is small (I sealed the padio of my apt here in Florida.) I saw coolant tanks, mix, etc, in the Enco catalog.

In some of the large machines I see coolant flying everywhere, is this really the case for smaller machines? Should I expect the flood coolant would fly right off the table. I have a 16"x12" table and I am not doing high speed RPMs.

I am aware of the differences between compressors and vacuum blowers for such a task. As Riceburner said, a compressor makes a poor air choice I think because they cant produce enough cubic feet per min CFM. Finding the right blower to "repurpose" I think is a harder task than anyone would initially think simply for this reason --- balancing the pressure versus CFM. I've done some vacuum table stuff (a pcb vacuum table) in the past too and must have tried 6 different pumps/compressors before attaching it to the home vacuum cleaner. I also have a compressor that produces lots of pressure but very little air volume that didnt work a damn.

My exit hole on the air blower will be between 1/4" and 1/8" with the attachment on. I am wondering if I can find a little dirt devil vacuum cleaner for dirt cheap and use it in reverse. These things are 12amps of power, small enough, and probably will make it through a cnc cycle without burning the house down.

The other problem I didnt mention in the first thread is the duration the compressor/blower must run. Most home use air pumps are intended for short duration to blow up an air mattress, etc, so they are going to run *very* hot and won't last a cnc cycle.

Maybe hooking up a coolant system for sparse cooling is a useless endeavor and not worth the trouble if I am not going to go all the way and do flood coolant. If so, then please tell me. I could suffice with the air blower and applying lube by hand.

I've heard some people use Milk as a coolant? Is this true or are they yanking a newbie's chain? I would think it would small bad pretty quick.

[TOTALLYRC]

I wasnt really planning on flood coolant, just a small steady amount of lubricant. I really shouldnt have said coolant but cutting lubricant instead. For now, I am using buttercut, a bacon-smelling type of tapping and cutting fluid. I apply it to the tool before cutting and also while I am cutting. I am hoping this is extending my tool life.

Maybe hooking up a coolant system for sparse cooling is a useless endeavor and not worth the trouble if I am not going to go all the way and do flood coolant. If so, then please tell me. I could suffice with the air blower and applying lube by hand.

On my small atlas mfc horizontal mill, I just rigged up a small container with a couple of zip ties ( Think funnel) and then I let gravity feed it onto the cutter. I am currently using a 1/4 turn valve to adjust the flow, but I would like to add a needle valve or a second 1/4 turn valve for adjusting the flow and use the first one for on and off. I had some 1/4" od soft copper tubing and use it for the coolant "nozzle". The mill actually has a drain hose and I have a second bottle there. When the top bottle gets empty, I just pour it from the bottom bottle into the top one by hand..

On my Taig, you can make quite a mess, especially at the higher rpms.

For the swarf blower, just try a leaf blower, they are designed to run a long time and should move the swarf right out of the way.

Mike

[LongRat]

I run aluminium through my CNC X2 and always run completely dry. I run a loc-line with a Hailea 70l/min aquarium pump connected supplying continuous air. I highly recommend this. The pumps are cheap, rated for continuous duty, and the parts that come off are excellent and there's no mess. This system will literally run for hours unmanned.

Pump looks like this - small too.

[project5k]

MILK??? not a chance... I'm running coolmist 77, and i've mixed it at about 1.5 times the concentration that the bottle sais to...

Perhaps you could think about a fogger or mist type coolant arrangement.. lots less mess, but it would be a total loss on the coolant...

As for making a drain pan, you could allways just pick up a cheap shower pan from homedepot, or even a large sheet cake pan from a resteraunt supply place, and hang some clear shower curtains from the ceeling... walmart, like $2

also, if your carefull the mill dosent have to sling the coolant everywhere, just dont point the coolant at the spindle, but rather right where the cutter meets the part... this will greatly reduce the mess.

[guru_florida]

I will look into the good suggestions about the air pumps. The leaf blower seems like a good idea, but might be overkill even for the small leaf blowers...I shall take a look. The aquarium pump looks like the right job.

I tried a 120v pump I had from a large air guest bed. It is certainly volume and blow but it is only rated for a 1/2 hour duty cycle before it must be shut down for another half hour.

Once I tackle the latest upgrades I will try for flood coolant too I think. I just lost my driver board, it was a mechatronics. I just ordered 3 Gecko 203s yesterday. So I will have a busy few weeks rewiring everything up. Going to install pump and spindle relays this time..maybe even go for spindle speed control with a hall sensor and digital pot and an Atmel mp.

[patndel]

I use a similar pump to longrat on my X3 feeding a manifold with 2 locline hoses with 1/16" nozzles angled at 90 deg to each other and towards the tip of the cutter. It has more than enoug airflow to blow the chips out of a 7/8" deep x 1/8 wide cut and leaves a great finish. These pumps are designed to run 24x7 and are pretty quiet, the sound of the air passing paste the cutter makes more noise then the pump.

I'm looking at injecting a small amount of WD40 at the manifold to provide a "mist".

Pat

[TOTALLYRC]

I use a similar pump to longrat on my X3 feeding a manifold with 2 locline hoses with 1/16" nozzles angled at 90 deg to each other and towards the tip of the cutter. It has more than enoug airflow to blow the chips out of a 7/8" deep x 1/8 wide cut and leaves a great finish. These pumps are designed to run 24x7 and are pretty quiet, the sound of the air passing paste the cutter makes more noise then the pump.

I'm looking at injecting a small amount of WD40 at the manifold to provide a "mist".

Pat

Be very careful about breathing WD-40 mist or any other petroleum based mist.

I was doing this with my Taig early on, and had to stop as I found that my breathing was getting more and more difficult by the day.

Please read the warning on the can and be careful, as you only have one set of lungs.

I was lucky and suffered no permanent damage(I think).

Mike

[patndel]

Thanks for the warning Mike ... to date I've just been squirting it on the onto the job between passes. Might have a re-think on the coolant side (it sounded like a good idea at the time).

Pat

[sergizmo]

I run aluminium through my CNC X2 and always run completely dry. I run a loc-line with a Hailea 70l/min aquarium pump connected supplying continuous air. I highly recommend this. The pumps are cheap, rated for continuous duty, and the parts that come off are excellent and there's no mess. This system will literally run for hours unmanned.

Pump looks like this - small too.

Thank you very much LongRat! I had never heard of these before, that could work great. Small, quiet, cheap and good flow.

The only problem is that all the suppliers seem to be in Australia or the UK.

[DonFrambach]

Thank you very much LongRat! I had never heard of these before, that could work great. Small, quiet, cheap and good flow.

The only problem is that all the suppliers seem to be in Australia or the UK.

Here is a US source for something similiar:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...02&pcatid=3702

[Regnar]

I have a craftsman 33gal compressor and I use the locline like everyone else. The only difference is that I drill and taped in needle nozzle. I found them for 2.00 at Northern Tool. Basically I have a lot of pressure without all the consumption. I and run the air for around 20-25 minutes before it kicks on for 1 min. Only draw back is does it job to good. If I am doing a small pocket the chips will go straight up. Not a huge deal if you have an enclosure but otherwise you will have a huge mess. Photo of the setup.


Should also mention I am only running this at 10psi.

[Riceburner98]

Good "tip". The small loc-line nozzle is still a bit too large sometimes. I for one will try that. The only ball inflator tip I have like that though has a hole at the end, and in the side of the needle. I'll have to buy another.

[fretsman]

Good "tip". The small loc-line nozzle is still a bit too large sometimes. I for one will try that. The only ball inflator tip I have like that though has a hole at the end, and in the side of the needle. I'll have to buy another.

Possibly he just cut off the end?

Dave