[lovebugjunkie]

These are the ones I ordered. In the description it says grease. Not sure but it may be referring to something they impregnated the ceramic balls with.

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PRO...arings/Kit7620

I packed them with wheel bearing grease and so far no problems.

george

[pminmo]

Interesting, is the bearing problem a common issue with the wolfgangs?

[jalessi]

All bearings, whether steel or ceramic, require lubrication. Grease and oil are common lubricants for hybrid bearings, but ceramic bearings are less sensitive to fluctuations in lubrication conditions. For example, compared to steel bearings, ceramic balls can operate under the same lubrication conditions at speeds up to 20% higher.

Except for those applications that operate at high speeds, grease is the recommended lubricant in most ceramic bearing applications. Grease is preferred because it is more easily retained at the bearing than oil and provides better protection against moisture and contaminants.

The most common grease used with ceramic bearings is lithium grease with a mineral oil base, suitable for precision bearings. For high-speed, high-temperature and prolonged service life applications, synthetic lubricants are preferred.

Regardless of the type of grease used, the quantity should never exceed 30% of the free space in the bearing. In high-speed applications, this quantity should be less than 30%.

As with any type of bearing, freshly greased ceramic bearings require a low-speed run-in period to ensure even distribution within the bearing. Excess grease is ejected during this period. Without a run-in period, premature bearing failure can result from sudden temperature rises.
A grease replenishment schedule should be calculated based upon the specific application. For high-speed applications, all grease should be removed and replaced with fresh grease on a fixed schedule.

Oil is typically used in applications where grease is either technically unsuitable or economically undesirable. Other situations where oil is preferred include those where grease relubrication cycles would be too short or when heat has to be removed from the bearing.

The combination of high operating speeds and low operating temperatures of spindle bearings require the use of circulating oil or oil spotting for lubrication. For other applications, oil bath, oil drop, oil jet and oil mist are suitable.

While oil must be changed at specific intervals, several lubrication methods offer slight exceptions to this rule. With oil-bath lubrication, an annual oil change is sufficient if bearing temperatures are generally lower than 122°F. At higher temperatures, oil should be changed more frequently. Where oil drop, oil mist or oil spot lubrication systems are in place, replacement generally is not necessary.

[lucas]

Thanks for the complete and detailled info, I learned a lot.

I did start my new and rebuild spindles at "low speed", I don't know exactly but estimate at around 1000 RPM during several minutes.
How long should this low-speed run-in period take?

I did recheck the VXB site and the bearings are supposed to be greased.

The question wich arrises now: are these VXB bearings good enough for this application or should I look for better ones?

Thanks again.

Pminmo:

if there's a problem with a wolfgang spindle then it are the bearings, but for me it's still not clear whether it's the quality of the bearings or the spindle design.
How many spindles exhibit these problems is also totally unknown, there are very positive reviews and others who have problems but what about the silent majority of users?

.

[jalessi]

Make sure you check the replacement bearings to be sure they are lubricated.

It seems as though several users have received dry bearings (not lubricated).

We run our spindles overnight at low rpm for break in.

A couple minutes is not sufficient.

Columbo recommends the following break in:

This simple break-in procedure can be performed as follows.

• Start the spindle at 3,000 rpms and run the spindle for 30 minutes.

• Increase the spindle speed by 3,000 rpms every 30 minutes until the spindle has reached its maximum rated speed as per the spindle name plate.

• It is important to apply the proper spindle cooling requirements to the spindle during this procedure.

Jeff...

[c-c-cncboy]

My Wolfgang spindle has "crunchy" noises in the bearings when spun by hand, from day one, getting worse. My suspicion is he inserts the bearings by pressing on the wrong race (for example, pressing on the inner race when fitting the outer to the housing) and succeeds in crushing the ceramic balls, chipping them. You can feel the grit interfere with rotation, if you rotate the spindle very, very slowly by hand.
Terrence

[jalessi]

The Wolfgang spindle has been plagued by top bearing failure due to Loctite contamination, most likely that is the grittiness you are describing.

I doubt very seriously that the bearings where pressed incorrectly when originally assembled.

Jeff...

[lucas]

My Wolfgang spindle has "crunchy" noises in the bearings when spun by hand, from day one, getting worse. My suspicion is he inserts the bearings by pressing on the wrong race (for example, pressing on the inner race when fitting the outer to the housing) and succeeds in crushing the ceramic balls, chipping them. You can feel the grit interfere with rotation, if you rotate the spindle very, very slowly by hand.
Terrence

This is exactly the same wich I experienced with my spindles.

The bearings have a loose fit, they just fall into place. Damage during mounting is impossible unless some glue gets into them.

But I still have doubts on their quality, they are very tiny and could also be damaged in transport. The packaging from VXB is just a plastic tube in a Jiffy bag...

The ones I received from VXB felt oily-greasy, so I think they have some "lube" in them.

I noticed during the rebuilds that it is difficult to glue them in place correctly: due to the loose fit with some play they could be out of alignment radially.

The rebuilds I did were a "hope and pray" operation, I ended up with spindles that still turn freely but they are really noisy. The noise increased after the rebuild, this could be due to the wrong break in procedure. I'm sure they won't last long.

The only thing left to try is to use quality bearings but it will be difficult to find these in Europe and the price should not be too high: A lot of money wasted if it still doesn't work...

[Garfield2]

I just got my brand new Wolfgang spindle and must say, very impressed with the runout of the actual spindle, bearings get a little warm but don't feel crunchy like people in this thread, but! I took the belts off the motor and it's got about 1-2mm runout itself. Upon closer inspection it looks like the top bearing of the motor is spinning in it's mount (it's a brass bushing).

This spindle hasn't cut a thing yet and already it looks like I need to replace the motor. Any idea on what speed, rating I need to replace it? I was thinking of using a BLDC or just a plain DC motor but I'd need something with the 4mm shaft.

Any ideas? So far I'm not that happy.

-A.

[lucas]

This spindle hasn't cut a thing yet and already it looks like I need to replace the motor. Any idea on what speed, rating I need to replace it? I was thinking of using a BLDC or just a plain DC motor but I'd need something with the 4mm shaft.

Any ideas? So far I'm not that happy.

-A.

Hello,

the spindle recommended speed used to be 20Krpm, don't know what it is now with the other type of bearings.
I didn't order his universal motor as we have 220V here and a transformer would be needed, also these motors are very noisy.
I had a choice of DC and some BLDC motors so I opted for a BLDC mainly for the noise.
It's a 100W BLDC motor running my spindle with ceramic bearings, this motor is running at 5000 rpm, so I made a rather big pulley to get 20Krpm at the spindle.

You have a choice of different types of motors, 100W at the shaft will do and a pulley will be needed to get the spindle speed you want.

But if I where you: contact Wolfgang, he should solve this issue.

Regards,
Luc.

[c-c-cncboy]

Ummm, there probably will be no more complaints about crunchy ceramic bearings, because he no longer says anything about "ceramic" in his adverts. My guess is he has reverted to regular steel bearings. And the previous claims about 1500 hrs life are now replaced with a 1000 hrs claim.

When I saw a negative report in another forum about the motor power I checked his claims on that too. Total bull****. He says the spindle output is "about 100 watts". No, the spindle MOTOR INPUT is about 20 watts when running under heavy load and half of that is lost in the windings, bearings and belt. That leaves the spindle output near 10 watts. Yes 10 watts, not 100 watts.

Ceramic bearings? NO
1500 hrs bearing life? NO
Output 100 watts? NO

It really is disappointing he can not be consistent and straight with his claims.

[jalessi]

c-c-cncboy,

These are the specs for the Wolfgang spindle motor.

See attached documentation.

Jeff...

[Garfield2]

c-c-cncboy,

These are the specs for the Wolfgang spindle motor.

See attached documentation.

Jeff...

So 45W would be it's maximum. Also if I'm reading this right, I should be able to control this with a simple PWM DC supply rather than using 110VAC. It looks like it has a bridge rectifier built into the terminal block of the motor. It will be switching high voltage DC but would be much simplier than triacs and scrs.

We're 240V here so I'm using a step-down transformer to get 110VAC. I'd like to get rid of the step-down.

It's all a mute point any how as I've still got to replace the motor anyway due to the top bearing being shot. When I run the motor as it is I get a blast of noise and it must be _very_ noisy RF-wise because it interupts my previously completely noise tolerant step drivers. So this motor is completely shot and destined for the bin.

-A.

[Drools]

I did a little bit of research when I first purchased my WG spindle, I even started a thread in this forum hoping people would get together and use it for WG support. The motor he now uses is not the Johnson DC motor but a Universal motor running on 110VAC atleast that is what I got with my spindle 6 months ago and he verified this in an e-mail. There is a link to where a replacement 110VAC motor can be purchased.
I purchased my WG to do PCB, how much wattage do you need to do PCBs? My spindle was a little gritty when I first purchased it but now it spins freely and I have even cut some delrin with it. I did cut the delrin slowly but still it worked well. For anything more I'm going to use my Porter Cable or get a different spindle.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87882

[Garfield2]

I did a little bit of research when I first purchased my WG spindle, I even started a thread in this forum hoping people would get together and use it for WG support. The motor he now uses is not the Johnson DC motor but a Universal motor running on 110VAC atleast that is what I got with my spindle 6 months ago and he verified this in an e-mail. There is a link to where a replacement 110VAC motor can be purchased.

The one with mine is definantly the Johnson because it's stamped into the rear of the motor can. It's a HVDC motor because it's got a communtated armature and permenant magnets, so it's a big DC motor with a rectifier built it. So by rough head math that means the DC motor part would be running on 110V rectified which full-wave rectified would be about 155VDC. Or if it was only half-wave rectified it would be about 77VDC.

I don't see how this motor could run at the same power ratings on 24DC. But I could be totally wrong and something else is in play.

I purchased my WG to do PCB, how much wattage do you need to do PCBs? My spindle was a little gritty when I first purchased it but now it spins freely and I have even cut some delrin with it. I did cut the delrin slowly but still it worked well. For anything more I'm going to use my Porter Cable or get a different spindle.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87882

Indeed, PCB engraving doesn't need a lot of power. Currently I've been using a Proxxon IBE running at around 6Krpm and it's been chugging along nicely at 600mm/sec no problem. I'm sure the Wolfgang will do the same and it won't need 100W of motor power. Plus trying to deliver 100W via two rubber o-rings really isn't going to happen, if it was a toothed belt maybe, but the o-rings really could only give at most maybe 5-10W of output power, anything more and they'd just stretch and vibrate till they break.

All I'm after is a motor that's quiet (which the Wolfgang _ROARS_ and rattles currently), that can be speed controlled simply, and doesn't interfer with my drivers electronics with RF noise. The spindle itself is flawless so far, and is very smooth and accurate, I just wish he didn't bundle it with such a crappy motor or had a few different sized pullies and clamps to match different motor cans.

-A.

[Drools]

I think we are after much the same thing. I'm going to take Jay's advice and pickup a Brushless RC motor and controller for mine when the original motor gives up. At the moment I want to buy a mount for my Porter Cable router but I may want to get a completely different router as my PC is not variable.

[Jay C]

All I'm after is a motor that's quiet (which the Wolfgang _ROARS_ and rattles currently), that can be speed controlled simply, and doesn't interfer with my drivers electronics with RF noise. The spindle itself is flawless so far, and is very smooth and accurate, I just wish he didn't bundle it with such a crappy motor or had a few different sized pullies and clamps to match different motor cans.

Since it's DC, have you thought of the water break in of the brushes?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxf_6vFB1o"]YouTube- Water "Break-In" Brushed RC Electric Motor - No need to "Waterproof"[/ame] I didn't need to do it on mine but it may help yours. The WG is my quietest and most accurate spindle and also the weakest one.

Jay

[mholod]

My experience with Wolfgang spindle:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...495#post778495

[chuck99z28]

mholod,

Why do you post the same thread in every discussion about the Wolfgang Spindle? We've all seen it. It comes up in every search on the Wolfgang spindle. Richard offered you a full replacement for free.

Are you trying to sawy people from purchasing it?

Or are you showing off your skills at Spindle disassembly and repair?

Chuck