[highspeedmazak]

I would say stop posting this it is like a cry out for help. Just post a for sale add and do us all a favor and put the price on it.

[LeeWay]

I have to agree. There is a reason I don't go test drive Hummer's and Benz's. Not necessarily because I can't afford it, but because my current 87 Chevy gets me where I am going and hauls everything I need it to. Hook a trailer to it and I have just increased it's potential. It looks good and is comfortable to drive. If it breaks down, a couple wrench's and screwdriver's will usually get me going again.

This is akin to the way I feel about software as well. SheetCam, Dolphin and Meshcam cover a whole lotta territory comfortably.

[bwshop]

Hi Guys
To find out the price I gave them a call . They quoted me $8000.00
It must be good for that price But us hobby guys Who's got the money
Thank you

[thkoutsidthebox]

I'm not going to go over the points about selling strategy again....I think its been covered! lol But I do have some questions:

1: Have you contacted your competitors by e-mail or other means before posting this to give them the chance for a fair competition?

2: Have you notified them that this thread is here since posting it to try and generate responses, and hence back-up your claim more strongly that they are shying away from replying?

3: Is your demo and benchmarking provided free of charge and if not what is the price....if the price is different depending upon company specifics, what are the criteria used to determine the price?

4: What are the specific criteria used to determine program price since you can't give a single price without more company details?

5: I believe it would be good marketing to provide on your website two or three alternative theoretical company situations, and prices to match. This would give people at least a ballpark figure.

6: You mentioned financing, what are the details and costs of your financing packages (Percentages since specific numbers are determined for each customer)?

7: Videos, as mentioned, are always good.

I like your website, from a quick look your programs seem good but I haven't looked at your competition. I like that you obviously have confidence in your product, but don't know if its genuine or a semi hard-line sales gimmick. There are other questions I feel may be relevant regarding training and after sales support, but without knowing the price of the program they may not be relevant. Without even a guideline price for software I don't bother because if its out of my league I'm just wasting my time and yours. M2c.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Hi Guys
To find out the price I gave them a call . They quoted me $8000.00
It must be good for that price But us hobby guys Who's got the money
Thank you

For that price I have more questions....plus, what program was that for...OptiNest?

8: For a price of $8000 I would expect user training. Is this provided on-site at the customers location and if so at what additional cost and for how long? If provided over video link how many hours training are provided?

9: Do you provide a technician on-site at the customers premisis after purchase to ensure the software interfaces and is set up correctly with my machine's?

10: For this price I would expect free after sales support, which seems nowadays to only be provided by good companies selling at a fraction of the price. Companies whose products are in the $$$$ range I find tend to try and charge for support after a set period of months. Its an enigma! Is there unlimited free after sales support?

11: If you optimise the software based on your benchmarking and analysis to operate seamlessly with my specific machinery, and issues arise after purchase and install which require re-programming, what is your policy regarding this and is it free of charge?

12: Are all manuals included in the above price and will you provide a copy of the user manual prior to purchase?

13: Whats your upgrade policy?

14: Whats your returns policy?

I think thats about it but if I think of more I'll ask you.....

[JerryFlyGuy]

Hi Guys
To find out the price I gave them a call . They quoted me $8000.00
It must be good for that price But us hobby guys Who's got the money
Thank you

Mark, what level of program was this, the complete you can't get anything more or the base level? Support cost /year? Future releases/upgrade costs?

This isn't a hugely terrible price if it's the full deal w/ a year of support and the needed training to get to a level where it's usable. We paid this much for our current nesting software and it did come w/ free upgrades, free training and manuals. While we didn't get the 'full meal deal' we did get 90% of it.. and I'm happy w/ the program.

Fwiw

[thkoutsidthebox]

I think he mentioned earlier that they don't do modules and you get their entire program for the price, no different versions. But I might have read wrong.......?

[JerryFlyGuy]

I think he mentioned earlier that they don't do modules and you get their entire program for the price, no different versions. But I might have read wrong.......?

You could be right, but if they don't do modules etc.. why the variance on pricing. If it is what it is, then there should be 1 price not.. 'dependant on a company by company basis'

Something a-miss anyway..

[harley4ever]

Wow, optimization. Bashing competitors is no longer the 'cool thing".
A few tips:

1) DONT BASH COMPETITORS
2) Make a good name for yourself, why argue with customers on here?
3) If you are so confident in your software, let the software do the selling and you should have no worries.
4) Seems like you're just on a quick vinge to rack some money.
5) Last, cnczone probably isn't the place to market your so called "best product".
CNC Zone is mostly hobby users, many small shop users, and few in between large shop users.

[thkoutsidthebox]

Perhaps the company by company basis is simply a price per seat depending on each customers requirements, and the benchmarking is simply a selling strategy that they can use to justify the purchase to the prospective customer and work out discounts as the number of seats increase, in which case I'm sure they have a system for determining the scale of increases in their price reductions as more seats are required, but may not wish to share this on the internet with their competitors as well as prospective customers.

Optimation....I see you hovering in the 'Active Users Viewing This Thread' list for the past hour......feel free to chime in any time, this is your thread after all....

[bwshop]

Hi
It is not much for a company that dose a lot of cutting But for me I can,t afford it The package was for 1 seat free upgrades free training and manuals
I am not trying to downgrade the company I was wondering what the price was since a lot off guys wanted to know It sure would be nice to have a nesting software like that. But no money.
Thank you

Mark, what level of program was this, the complete you can't get anything more or the base level? Support cost /year? Future releases/upgrade costs?

This isn't a hugely terrible price if it's the full deal w/ a year of support and the needed training to get to a level where it's usable. We paid this much for our current nesting software and it did come w/ free upgrades, free training and manuals. While we didn't get the 'full meal deal' we did get 90% of it.. and I'm happy w/ the program.

Fwiw

[dertsap]

"Price determines if you will buy or not no matter how crunchy and delicious it tastes."

The level of anticipated post purchase satisfaction / benefit is what drives purchasing of products. Until you know what the benefits to you can be, you don't know if a product is cheap or expensive.

Scott

[email protected]

Flash presentation of our new nesting technology: www.optinest.com/cd

i respectfully say BS

take buying a car for example
there are many makes of cars and trucks , they all serve their purpose but offer different options and comforts , before going near a lot we have for the most part decided what we want to purchase and how much we are roughly looking to pay for that particular vehicle , now say i'm at a lot and they don t have the model of vehicle that i want and now of course the salesman try's to sell me a vehicle that i have never heard of before , he had best be up front and telling me the benefits of this vehicle above the model i am seeking and he had better tell me the price and be quick at explaining the cost if it is high

if they want to hide anything , leave out specific deals or straight up can't answer a simple question ,then i will walk and never look back

its simple if you cant give a rough cost of the software based on a few averages from current customers then youve got something to hide

you may want to concider it is a software that it appears noone here has heard of ,you may want to kill your challenge and explain the product the cost the cost efficiency and the true benefits to your product
lay it out there

[Optimation]

Jerry,

I appreciate and respect your comments to me. I do not intend to bash any competitor. I only wish to bring every provider that talks the same talk, that you spoke of, to a challenge of their collective capabilities. A straight forward competition is unorthodox, and it may be crass to come out and bluntly propose it. But, won't that reveal things that people ultimately want to know? Plain and simple. No offense intended.

There is a lot to be learned about our company and our products if one allows for the time. Many Fortune 500 companies and many more smaller companies have, for many years, benefited from the efficiency that our software allows.

Some of those that have posted are right in that I may be posting to a forum that is largely geared toward to "hobbyists". But, there are still members here who can benefit from our technology, both large and small entities.

We do not provide unintelligent software at a base price. Our software is the most inclusive of capabilities of any available. We do not play the module game with you. And, there are options available to those who may not have the means to purchase the product outright, but desire to have the product in order to be competitive along side larger players. Our lease option, as an example, is a very powerful way to participate.

Thkoutsidthebox is spot on with his rationalization as to why prices change from one company to the next and I appreciate his (or her, for lack of knowing) post. Pricing is not my responsibility. And, at the end of the day, regardless of what some here have said, price is relative to the benefit received. There is not one thing that you purchase that you don't consider the benefit that you will receive for the money. Period.

There is nothing cagey going on here. I have simply offered a challenge to the others (providers) in order to prove that we DO indeed have the most advanced technology available in our category. I know that you have heard all of the others bark the same message. Wouldn't you like for one of us to finally offer to prove our bold statements to you? We will back up our claims by benchmarking against them. Isn't that what people really want, someone that will stand behind their product? If you are tired of hearing all of the puffery, then why is it negative when someone comes along and wants to prove their words?

I am not here to start arguments. I am only trying to bring to light the fact that there is new technology available and to challenge the other providers that promise that their product is the most advanced. Simply, I am going straight to the point. Some may even consider it refreshing to see a company willing to openly compete.

Oh, if you didn't know already, Greg King (aka Independent CNC Programmer) has provided us with several sets of parts files to challenge our nesting capability. We appreciate Greg for participating. We will share our material utilization allowed by our nesting capability along with the material utilization that Greg realizes with his current method. I think that a lot of people here will be interested to see the results.

Scott
[email protected]

[Optimation]

a poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundary of one's own mind

dertsap,

"you may want to concider it is a software that it appears noone here has heard of ,you may want to kill your challenge and explain the product the cost the cost efficiency and the true benefits to your product
lay it out there"

Would you consider scheduling with us a live, online presentation of our software and a benchmark against your current method of producing parts? In this way we will be able to explain the true benefits of our products to you, and to exhibit the economic value, specific to your operation, as it relates to cost of the software.

Scott
[email protected]

[dansutula]

Question (from all): How much does your software cost?
Answer(for Optimation) via Question: How much (money) do you GOT(can you afford)?
Question: Will you be exhibiting at the IMTS (or are you all BS)?
Answer:?
Question: Is your superior technology / nesting algorithm protected by a patent or patent pending? If so what is the patent/ap #? If not why not?
Regards,
Dan

[Khalid]

hmmm... I think some one gave you parts to nest couple of days ago...,,, Are your program still arranging them

[thkoutsidthebox]

I appreciate what you have said Optimation, but you still haven't answered most of my 14 questions....not to mention the other questions from additional people?

[JerryFlyGuy]

Scott, for somone who claims not to be bashing competators, your sure trying to cover your tracks. [It's the first time I've been glad of the forum's new policy of only allowing edits to post for 1 day.. after that they are locked] If you go back and read your first 1/2 dozen posts I think we can all agree that your aggressive posting and SHOUTING would be charactorized as an assault on the competitors.

I very much doubt that your true competitors actually come to a forum like this. Rather, you'll find them at IMTS [which btw, I didn't find a Exibitors listing for Opimation at.. curious thing since all the other major Nesting software companies exibit there?!] I did some more in-depth searching and have yet to find any Mechanical Mag, site, E-list that has any discussion in regards to your company.. there are no vid's on Youtube,.. Your whole company is an enigma.

If you want to go head to head w/ a competitor, CALL them directly see how far you get. Most likely you'll get the 'sure see ya at IMTS' [which starts in 2 days BTW]

Your a very good salesman Scott, I mean this in the negative in that you handily miss-direct and avoid every and all question which has any value.

It's almost unbelievable that you would price your product according to how much the company buying it, needs it. Does that mean for a hobbiest like myself [at home at least] could buy it for a couple hundred bucks.. 'cause I don't really need it..?? There is another reason I would refuse to even evaluate your software [and your company]. If your going to adjust the price on a company per company basis you are going to skew the market. This has the ability to unfairly stack the little guy against the big guy or vice versa. If your product is a one size fits all, then the price should be accordingly.

Everyone who buys software knows that they can get multi seat discounts off the list price. There is no news there. In reality I don't really care if you show your price on the site or not. I buy 'companies' when I buy software.. and currently, your company [or rather the one your represent] is not one I'm interested in the least, in buying into..

It's truely amazing the diversity in software sales.. there are a few 'gems' out there [companies]. I've had dealings w/ several who have really shined, IMO. The short list is OneCNC, SolidCAM, MTC, SolidWorks. Each has been called for demo info and I had a couple call backs after the demo [over the following 4-6 weeks] while we evaluated other products. I can always tell a quality company who believes in their product by the # of times they call back. If they are scared of the competition, it's every day.. if they believe.. it's every couple weeks 'cause they ain't scared of the other guys. They have set prices which are not easily negotiated but can be moved a bit when it comes to multipule seats, long subscription and maint. contracts as well as training. At the end of the day however, they are pretty much set it stone.

Btw, modularised software sets aren't a negative IMO, they help companies tailor their software to their needs. I've got software which is done this way and I'm very happy w/ what I got for the price.

Judging by what I've seen so far, I'd guess that the 'close to the vest' sales tactics [absolutely NO CONCRETE information, downloadable demo's, public display's, trade show exibits] indicate that they think they can convince you one to one w/ smooth sales talk, but don't want open and direct discussion between potential clients, publishers and software evaluators etc. If it was sooooo Great.. it would be at IMTS, it'd be in CADalyst, MCADonline.com, CAD Magazine, CAD Digest, Cim-DATA.. funny thing is... when I did searches on a random number of these sites.. nothing showed up.. I wonder were I got the idea you were new to the business!

It's fine if you want to come into the business w/ a bang.. but choose the 'right bang'.. There are great software sets out there who have really out-shined their competition but the only way they are getting market share is by plugging along at it.. The best example I can think of is SolidCAM. It's a truely simple, intuative and well integrated CAM program which is eating up more and more market share, year by year [Do a search on CIM-DATA if you want to see the numbers] it's because they are letting their product speak for it's self. Plus they have piggy-backed on a great Base platform [SolidWorks].. {btw.. they also work in Inventor, Microstation and a couple others..} They have accumulated this market share due to having an open website from which you can download all their manuals, a demo of their product and watch vid's on how to work it.. It's a total open door policy.

If you really want market share and want to blow away the cometition do it the way everyone else has [and this is the 'class' I was talking about]..

You current market tactics remind me of a video..



Which guy do you think is see you as???

Until you get a few things right and showcase yourself your going to get NO-WHERE. Currently it's all just hot air.

Btw, how often do you think these estabilished Software companies get challenged by the new up and coming companies.. Do you think they get tired of these guys.. companies w/ nothing concrete on their sites.. nothing to REALLY show what they can do... it's all 'talk', hot air. They aren't even going to listen or look up until they see you REALLY come on the radar. I'll say it again.. IMTS, CADigest, MCADonline.. etc etc..

Until then, your just wasting your time, my time... and taking up bandwith for no reason..

Once you start to do this, then they will sit up and take notice.. keep going the way you are.. and it's gonna be a LONG road..

Fwiw

[dertsap]

You current market tactics remind me of a video..

LOL now that should have been a humbling experience

[dansutula]

What, did that video scare him away?
Either that or he is busy launching his new product at IMTS, along with Dewayne Harlow and Ulianni.