[otpco]

Hi all converting a moog to ball screws and servoes so good so far but !!! need some imformation about the tool changer and the power draw bar . maybee a wireing diagram . ladder diagram . anything would be good . I am slowly working through the problems .I need some background to how it sequenced itself . any ideas . thanks to all otpco Australia

[awemawson]

curses curses curses. I had a Moog Hydrapoint 1000 with a tool changer a few years back. Had ALL the documentation - I had interfaced it to a PC using a parallel port to 32 way air valve interface that I built. Machine was scrapped, and I offered the manuals to all and everyone, no one wanted them so they went to scrap as well. I would far rather that they had found a good home

AWEM

[flyeribe]

I also have not one but two moog 83-1000 right now one is beening converted as we speak with ballscrews left to do is change out some bearings in the head and mount the new related items and go. If I had a choice I be looking for more of them. As for the tool changer well we are not going to us it just yet. System is beening configure with servo 1100oz and viper drives with a candcnc items like mini-io card pendent and rely card software heading towards Linux emc2. I'll post some picture tonight.

Luke
They look like junk but I have a soft heart and think a moog needs a second chance.

[flyeribe]

Ok heres some from the start and then with new control panel

[otpco]

Hi guys I ve posted some pictures in the Mach 3 Forum under moog take a look ! cant get it to post here . thanks mark

[flyeribe]

Ha Mark seen your pictures on mach3 yahoo group quite the looking machine you have gone along way with it. How did you do the quick draw bar you chop out alot of items there. I'm not going to do that just not yet as you see I'm still along ways away. Been trying to get my servo's and drivers going on the bench with not much luck. Thinking that what I have is not a command setup so I might be changing to something like Gecko's 340 or the new one that is coming out and then with a new controller card from Cnc4pc or a Campbells product. I going to start finshing the installation of my ballscrew and finish with mill head after that will see what kind of mood I'm in. I'll keep you posted.

[otpco]

the power draw bar !! here is my solution . I took off the Hydrolic accuator and drilled a hole in the top using the cylinder put a threaded rod through and made a air cylinder for the top . it has only a piece of rubber in it . works ok . I think I will use a plc to run the tool changer and gearbox, drawbar side of the machine I run the drawbar etc manual doing the . changes with a few buttons email me offf line for more imformation [email protected] I have some manuals on the way it will help me I hope .My machine has only a few hours on it .Like new !! the xyz works well all ball screws xy servoes and z twin steppers . more then happy so far

[Rodger Kallu]

Hi, have just joined CNCzone today. I have bought a Moog headgear to retrofit to another milling machine. I don't want control gear, just want the varispeed option and the ace spindle setup (large bearings). Have cut a lot of the now surplus framework/casting away but your photo takes my breath away, I didn't dare cut that much off. Anyway my real reason for posting is to find out how i can get back to 3MT in the spindle taper or a conversion arbor. I don't want to use the Moog taper tooling. Can anyone help plse. Also have a lot of early electric/pnuematic gizmos that are not much use to me as well as the entire moog drawbar. Rodger Kallu NZ

[flyeribe]

Welcome Roger you might have to go too a J head style with a R8 and have an adaptor R8 to MT3 like me you can find these items on ebay I bought one each for my mills by my picture you see that I installed the variable upper part of my moog plus I kept the spindle of the moog also, the only thing I have to do in finish my casting for the bellhousing for the new single phase 3 hp motor. And for others heres a up date to where I am at now going finish my patterns for the ballscrew mounts and both end pieces for the cradle install the other end of the ballscrew. In another picture you see what is two springs this doing on top of my spindle still need to put one of the air cylinders there and bingo a quick re less air applied and tooling falls out of spindle. Will have more picture later as we go.

Cheers Luke

[otpco]

good to see someone else has moog madness !! no known cure !!! my mill is still under construction but is working reasnably well . tool changer still being worked manual . carocell going auto . Mach doing a good job dont throw your old moog bits away . I might need some spares . I tryed the air ram thing on the draw bar there is a few drawbacks . cant get the dwawbar tight eneough . maybee Belview washers and air to release . I have now a 6inch bore cylinder to pull the draw bar up and streach the draw bar . it works well it is the fourth rethink of this bit the tooling has to be tight it was the lasr thing my tooling is erickson moog there own taper !! but I have a full set . keep up the good work mark sunny Australia

[Jim Blackwood]

This thread is kinda old but I hope you guys are still around. I've had a Moog Hydraport mill for a few years now, very much like that red one. The iron was just too good to pass up. I stripped it down, cut down the head casting, mounted ballscrews and servos and I'm just about ready to look at servo drives. I've been running the mill manually, using pliers to tighten the gear nut on the drawbar and stacking blocks under the stop screw for the quill for depth, using a screw jack under the knee. I'm a little intimidated by the tool changer arm which I've disassembled and cleaned but haven't put back together yet. But I'm encouraged by your comments and the drawbar ideas give me hope. I never considered using a die spring and a pressure cylinder.

I still have to mount the quill servo and change pulleys to get the belt tight on the y axis, fairly minor stuff but I keep putting it off for one reason or another.

Well, like I said I hope you guys are still here. It'd be great to know some people using these old machines.

Jim

[CATCH22]

Hi, have just joined CNCzone today. I have bought a Moog headgear to retrofit to another milling machine. I don't want control gear, just want the varispeed option and the ace spindle setup (large bearings). Have cut a lot of the now surplus framework/casting away but your photo takes my breath away, I didn't dare cut that much off. Anyway my real reason for posting is to find out how i can get back to 3MT in the spindle taper or a conversion arbor. I don't want to use the Moog taper tooling. Can anyone help plse. Also have a lot of early electric/pnuematic gizmos that are not much use to me as well as the entire moog drawbar. Rodger Kallu NZ

Just sent you a PM Rodger Kallu.

[Jim Blackwood]

Well Rodger, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see pictures.
The rigidity in the head is in the area surrounding the quill, so the rest of the casting is just for the drive, which isn't very heavily loaded, even geared down and making interrupted cuts. So the metal that I left is more than adequate to do the job, and leaves room to mount a servo and ballscrew. Upgrading the drawbar is something of a challenge but of late I've been concentrating on the controls and haven't worried too much about that. Fortunately I have a fair assortment of tool holders but if you have extras....

The quill is easily removed and to go to the MT30 spindle I would think you'd just break it down same as if you were replacing the bearings. I can't see the Moog spindle being much different really. Chances are very good that both use the same bearings and the same spacing. There might be some minor differences in the end caps/bearing retainers but if you have a lathe I'd think it'd be easy to make it work.

I recently acquired a Galil DMC-2160 6 axis controller and just in the last couple days established communications with it using the PC I plan to install in the cabinet so I'm making progress. Turns out my Parker servo motors have resolvers fitted instead of encoders so I'll be looking at possible replacements for those. But, the money's dried up again and I won't be able to do much for awhile.

Jim

[Jim Blackwood]

I have the original service manuals. They are not complete in terms of some of the details of operation but have some useful information. Let me know specifically what you're looking for and I'll see what I can do to help.

The drawbar is a challenge. One interesting approach is to use a heavy spring to retain the tool and a solenoid or pneumatic cylinder to compress to release. A hard stop and driving the bar against it might also work. Bellevue spring washers were suggested as an option, I'm leaning more towards a heavy die spring. Getting adequate tension on the rod is the challenge. Modifying the drawbar should be simple, adding the release mechanism, only a little trouble.

The tool changer uses micro switches and digital logic for positioning, driven by a fairly mundane 110vac motor. The arm is a bit trickier but again, uses simple devices. The arm for mine is presently disassembled and is something of a puzzle so I'm waiting on a good day to put it back together.

Range shift: I retrofitted to a standard manual shifter. May go back to something automatic later on, but a different design almost guaranteed.

Vari-speed: Also converted to manual, but using a VSD to run the spindle. May change after the machine has control of the X-Y axis and tool changer.

Anybody need a good hydraulic power unit?

Jim

[otpco]

hi jim and all My moog works with most of the original bits .But a few bits added on .no Hydrolic just air . I back drilled the cylinder bit and put air on top .the Quill feed uses the original cylinders with new pistons and ball screws . twin z ball screws and a timing belt to tie it all together . tool changer works but I am the PLC ! a couple of buttons and away it goes. the draw bar uses the same PLC (ME) but all works well I have been running it for a couple of years .so its well proven my Pictures are on the Mach forum site under Moog madness . there is some nice material in them also the bearings are different !!! bigger and higher speed rateing ! A r8 spindle ant even close its a different thing ( dont ask how I found out ) the VFD on the head is great I run to 4500 rpm 1to 1 reduction standard motor , can run to 5600 but only for short times . The fan is noisy at this speed . (must change it ) hope this helps u all Mark MoogMadness

[timprebleco]

Guys,
I recently came across a Moog Hydra Point at scrap price. It had enough Bridgeport Parts to interest me. So I bought it and scrapped out the iron but kept the control panel and all the hydraulic actuators plus the main hydraulic control and power unit. I have most of the parts plus 2 manuals for it. Is there any interest in these parts? If so let me know. Hate to get rid parts that some one can use.

[Jim Blackwood]

Did you get any tooling with it? I'm not sure about the stuff you mentioned, I scrapped most of that stuff from mine, just kept the iron, the hydropak and the manuals. Can't find a use for the hydraulic unit and haven't been able to sell it so it may eventually go to scrap too.

Jim

[timprebleco]

Jim,
This head has a standard R-8 spindle in it. I am attaching two pictures.

[Jim Blackwood]

Ah, 8 speed head. Probably more useful overall.

Jim

[Jim Blackwood]

I've been experimenting with the drawbar spring idea. Since we had no data on what spring was used previously I went with the heaviest die spring I could find in the McMasterCarr catalog, which was part number 9588K73, 1" OD, 1-1/4 L, .158 x .221" oval wire, about 1400 lbs/inch and 380 lbs@ 15% compression. In my opinion this spring is inadequate at anything under full coil bind but I haven't run it yet.

In looking at belleview spring washers in the same catalog the best I could find is 9712K77 with a working load of 691lbs and deflection of .018". This requires a series stack of at least 10 to achieve the needed .180" or so release distance and undoubtedly at least a double stack in parallel to achieve acceptable clamping pressure, which means a stack height of 1.800" or greater. I think this would be difficult to achieve with the current drawbar without serious modification.

The problem as I see it, is that the existing drawbar system provides an intense ramp up of clamping force based on very little movement or stretch, utilizing the inherent tensile strength of the drawbar, whereas the spring idea relies entirely on spring force with comparatively little ramp up for movement. Where the spring might give a maximum of about 1000 to possibly 2000 lbs of force at release, the drawbar can probably produce over 50,000 lbs of tensile force in as little as 10 thousandths of movement, well below what will allow release of the tool holder. So the real question would be what the range of tensile force on the original drawbar is during actual use. I don't have any way of answering that question though so I'd really like to hear some of your thoughts on it.

I'm guessing that the hydraulic pull would give us some idea, and that momentary loading as during an interrupted cut would not be much higher than that. Since the system pressure is 1500 psi we should be able to get some idea from piston area. Does anyone have the diameter of the piston and the rod used to pull the drawbar?

Jim