[digitalmdj]

I want to know how many of you out there are not happy with their shoptasks. If so we need to get a class action suit against John Taylor the owner. He is a thief that won't stand behind his product.

[norvil1]

i am certainly not happy with mine. i also feel that i got ripped off. i would vote for a class action lynching.

[digitalmdj]

Norvil the machine you bought was suppose to be disassembled and built from the ground up wasn't it. But all john did was install the cnc kit and send it to you. Then he charged you almost 13,000 dollars for it. He didn't even install precision bearings because he doesn't know where to get any. They are very hard to find because they are not a popular size. Well I am here to prevent this kind of stuff he pull doesn't happen again. Norvil if you need a motor I have a couple I wont be using. They are free and new just let me know when you have one go bad.

[fastlanecafe]

Hi guys,
I have been looking forward to getting a home shop in a few years when I retire. I see some pretty hostile posts here, but to be fair I have seen similar things for the other Chinese made 3 in 1 machines as well. My feeling is that I expect to have some issues of quality control with any machine coming from China, and I feel my mechanical skills are good enough to handle any repairs on my own. My question to Norvil and Digitalmdj is this-
Did the folks at Shoptask try to help you over the phone or by e-mail with your problems, and did they send out replacement parts in a reasonable time when you requested them?
I understand that heavy castings may take some time to get, but have they promised to deliver them to you? If you decided to return the machine did they offer you a refund? These are the only real issues in buying any product that I can see as a problem.
On a side note, I have some background in the legal field, and I would hate to see anyone get into any serious legal problems by going too far, so I would suggest you tone down the language to a more reasonable level.

[norvil1]

fastlane i have a offer for you. i will be glad to sell you this machine for 1,000
less than i paid for it, then you can practice all the calming down you want.
when i am promised one thing and delivered something else, i tend to be a little chapped.

[digitalmdj]

Let me answer your questions. First John does not keep castings on hand but his warranty stated immediate replacement once they receive the bad part. John doesn't have the money to take anyone to court. I am keeping all my emails to use against John if its necessary. He has already tried to accuse me of damaging the castings. But the damage cannot be blamed on me because I have witnesses and pictures. He cannot give me a reasonable date of delivery of the parts. He tells me maybe it will be shipped this month or next month or not at all. The chinese won't return his emails. I told him that is unreasonable and I am going to file a complaint against him . This is only the mill swingarm. The gearbox that was arc welded and machined wrong and warped so much that the bottom of the casting needs to be surfaced also it leaked all the oil out through the welded area. Hasn't even been ordered yet. I can only say that what they did was a repair and cannot be sold as new condition . This constitutes fraud on their part. I have shown you pictures so to be on the level here and I have the housings and witnesses to challange John in court. You need to check your machine before useing it because he is not responsible for damage it might cause because of its defective parts. Here is johns warranty off his website. John makes statements that are false Norvil can say that . Also the mill gearbox manual feed is in bad need of shimming. Norvil has the same issue. The mill lift screw nut is worn out from the factory. The locknuts are sloppy and are taped crooked. The y axis gears need to be shimed closer and that means pulling the alignment pins and shiming then redrill the pin holes to reinstall the alignment pins. But the piece that holds the shaft is so sloppy that it will have to be bored and have bushings installed to correct the problem. The same goes for the mill lifting screw gears also.

SHOPMASTER machines are warranted for THREE full years against defects in materials and workmanship. During that time, SHOPMASTER will replace any defective parts that are returned freight prepaid to our warehouse, free of charge. Upon receipt of the defective parts, SHOPMASTER will to send replacement parts immediately. This warranty does not cover parts that are worn out through the course of normal operation or are damaged through negligence on the part of the operator. This warranty does not cover incidental or consequential damages resulting from defects in material and workmanship.

[dahui]

I have a 2005 eldorado bridgemill. I'll have to say all of my warranty claims (a couple of missing parts, a couple of metric parts that were supposed to be inch, gearbox triple gear and the mill drive pulley) were handled quickly and to my satisfaction. JT was responsive and helpful both by email and over the phone. I don't have any casting problems that I'm aware of and all of the axis feed components and the mill head lift are fine.

The overall quality of the machine is not first class, but that's what I expect from an inexpensive machine made in china, in very small quantities, without direct supervision. After all the work I've put into it I'm satisfied with the performance. The only nagging problems that remain are a bind in the gearbox (resolved by leaving out the triple gear unless I'm threading. I'm using a gear motor in the x axis CNC mount to power feed.), some flex in the mill spindle in one direction (not really correctable), and a lack of abilitly to tram the machine accurately (I got it down to 2 thou in one direction and 5 in the other). I would not recommend the CNC upgrade, I just don't think the base accuracy of the machine is capable enough to warrant the expense...although I've seen several CNC shoptasks that apparently perform well. As for high precision bearings, I don't see how that would be worth it. The machine just doesn't perform at the level where it would make any difference.

Perhaps they are having some serious QC issues but I'd like to hear from the other tripower owners on the forum to see if they are having similar problems with defects and the level of service. Could it just be a monday machine? From what I hear there can be quite a bit of difference between individual machines. Seems like the best bet would be to send the whole thing back...of course that is rediculously expensive. It might be helpful if some other tripower owners could chime in. Certainly bad castings are a warranty issue but he would have to wait for parts to come from china. Of course I can only speak from my experience and don't have a particularly good understanding of your situation. However, JT is just a guy running a small business. It's not like you are dealing with Haas or something. It's hard since he has no direct control over the manufacturing or even the parts supply. Maybe the factory in china is jerking him around or going out of business, or got a bigger client so they aren't paying attention to his product, or who knows what. I can say that from my experience with manufacturing in china, it would be quite commonplace for a factory to not return calls or emails if they decided you were more hassle that it was worth.

I know it's an inconvenience for you and that you should most definitely get the product as advertised, but imagine what kind of headache JT is having if there is some major disaster going on in china and he's receiving container loads of bad product or nothing at all. Again, you are not dealing with a corporation, just some dude named John. I'd like to reiterate, I can't speak to your specific experience with the machine or JT. If it's that bad I'd just say return the machine and cut your losses on the shipping. I've never heard of a 3-in-1 that was "really great." I can't imagine that after being in business for so many years that he is trying to perpetrate any fraud, there must be some larger issue.

[fastlanecafe]

To Digitalmdj,
Did you return the parts to Shoptask as stated in the warranty? Your post indicates that they did send you a casting already. Did they offer you a refund on the machine?

Norvil,
Where are you located and how is your machine equipped. I may be interested if the price is right and the freight is not too big an issue. You don't go into any specifics about your issues, but you could e-mail me privately and see if its something that can I could handle.

[digitalmdj]

Dahui Are the bushings loose in the gearbox housing or are they a snug fit. They opened the bore of mine thinking it would solve the problem with the binding. Well it ruined the casting. John does not like to complain to the Chinese at all. Thats the problem but that is his problem not mine. The second casting was perfect in every way but for a crack in the gear shift area they tried to hide. If I don't fix it I will never get another housing this good. We are at the mercy of the Chinese. I have to make a new oil galley side plate but thats a flat piece of steel. I can do that and counter sink the holes. The gear binding is a big problem with this machine. It seems alot of us if not all of us have that problem. If JT can't get the chinese to fix their issues he need to change to someone else. This quality control problem is going to break him. I told JT that I can replace anything or get it made but you cannot get a casting made here because the Chinese took all the business and forced everyone out of the bussiness here. Just like the Japanese did in the plywood industry. The only difference is the japanese do a much better job at quality control. If they fix the quality control problem. They will have to charge more but we will not have to throw everthing away and start over like we are doing now. As for returning the machine it's at my expense and then get another bad machine. It's better if JT just replaces the castings and be certain they are good. The Chinese are good at hiding things. They have lead paint it fills in all the problems areas they need to hide. It's three hundred dollars to ship the machine back just to get another bad one and Jhon can charge you for something he says you did to the machine. You lose he wins . He sells the bad machine to someone else like you . Replacing the parts is the thing to do he has to admit their is a problem. And he hates to do that. This way you don't leave it to someone else to get shafted. The fraud is on the Chinese end. Selling a machine with a casting they welded on that had a casting flaw. Or machining over a crack and covering it up with paint to hide it. That is fraud plain and simple. John is just a second party selling their product. But John is the one making all the false claims about the machine we all know are not true. Yes it can be a precision machine but not until after hours of hard work and lots of money.

[digitalmdj]

I took the new housing to the machinist today that JT sent me to fix the crack that the Chinese tried to hide. JT is going to pay for it one way or the other. Bad publisity hurts more than just taking care of business.

[dgapilot]

I have a 2006 vintage Bridgemill and for the most part it meets my expectations. One problem I have is that the set screw to adjust the gibs on the saddle was drilled slightly off location and the jam nut can't be tightened. A die grinder will resolve that.

From the sound of this thread and others on the web, it looks like quality since the change to the TriPower has gone way down. I'd like to suggest that for someone considering purchasing one, make arrangements with JT to take a trip to Las Vegas and inspect your machine prior to him shipping it. A couple hundred $ spent ahead of time on an inspection trip may resolve a lot of issues after the fact.

When the price of the machines were less than $2k this wouldn't make sense, but for someone buying a machine set up with ball screws and cnc the investment is considerably higher.

I don't know if JT would go along with the idea, but from my dealings with him I have no complaints and he has treated me fairly.

[digitalmdj]

JT is a salesman and all good salesmen come across that way.He strings you along until you take care of the problem yourself. This is stuff he should take care of before he ships the machine. He has been selling these machines around 17 years and he is still making the same mistakes. Don't you think he know the problems and just playing stupid. Norvil complained to him about the sloppy mill gearbox. I asked him about the problem he acted like no one else has complained about. The guy is good but not that good. All we have to do is compare notes. He is a slick willie and we fall for the same thing when we go looking for a new car. We want one bad enough we don't see the problems until it's to late . He makes the machine sound like it's the greatest machine on earth . But that changes in the first few days of owning the machine.

[DRD]

I will say this. I purchased a shop task back in 1990, not knowing any better. I waited for double of the time I was told it would take to get the machine. After geting the machine up and running, it was a pile of junk bascially. The ways were off 10 thousands, and I had to hand scrape the ways in best I could. Also the motors went bad the first 2 hours. So honestly, these shop tasks are a use less machine by design. Shop task did send me new motors, but said, hum to the ways.
This shop task was my first metal machine that I purchased, now 17 years later, I own a 5 axis Haas vf3, a big step up for sure.
Good luck guys.

[norvil1]

JT is a salesman and all good salesmen come across that way.He strings you along until you take care of the problem yourself. This is stuff he should take care of before he ships the machine. He has been selling these machines around 17 years and he is still making the same mistakes. Don't you think he know the problems and just playing stupid. Norvil complained to him about the sloppy mill gearbox. I asked him about the problem he acted like no one else has complained about. The guy is good but not that good. All we have to do is compare notes. He is a slick willie and we fall for the same thing when we go looking for a new car. We want one bad enough we don't see the problems until it's to late . He makes the machine sound like it's the greatest machine on earth . But that changes in the first few days of owning the machine.
Reply With Quote
well said:banana:

[dahui]

The bushings in my casting were a good fit. However, I made a new set of bushings and honed them and re-honed them trying to get just enough slack to eliminate the bind but no be too loose. No luck. On my first set of gears, the tooth profile was not concetric wit the axis. My replacement set was machined correctly but the fit was actually worse. Go figure. I also worked the gear teeth with a file and repeated applications of dykem to locate the high spots. Improvement but still no joy.

I also made a gear cover out of polycarbonate so I could see inside but I don't need to use the mounting hole for the threaded rod that supports the motor since I made a new mount that doesn't use it. 1/2" polycarb could probably handle it though. In the end, I just left the gearbox open so I can pop in the triple gear if I need to thread. Takes about three minutes. One nice thing about having the gears out of there is it's a lot more quiet and the surface finish when turning is perfect! Of course the gearbox is dry, but I figure the mill runs with no oil so the lathe should too. No problems so far and continuous operation makes the spindle warm to the touch but actually much less hot that the mill spindle. I replaced all the bearings with Timken.

I'd suggest drilling out the cracked/filled area of the casting and filling it with JB Weld or something to stop the leak. Will the crack really be a problem to the functioning of the machine? It could also be drilled and pinned. I don't know much about casing repair, but I've seen it in pictures.

I think the main issue might be the volume of STs produced is so small the factory really isn't worried about loosing the business...which would also explain any reluctance to complain to them. It's an unfortunate situation really and driven by much larger economic forces than us.

[digitalmdj]

JT keeps doing the shuffel trying to get out of replacing the bad castings I have. If you purchase a maching that leeks and has sand in the oil area stop right there and send the machine back to JT and don't go any farther. This will keep you out of trouble. Take pictures and have witnesses JT will try to charge you so he doesn't lose money. He trys to come out ahead. This man has no shame and he will always tell you he wants to work with you . The reason for this is so you won't file complaints against him.

[DRD]

I run a small business, and things go wrong from time to time. Allways take care of the customer, and things are fine.
If JT dosen't want to step up and fix the problem, you need to get your point across to him, take him to court and file a complaint to the BB bearu. These machine he is sells have been junk since day one. At $2'000 or what ever he wants, there are some nice machines that can purchased, new or used.

Good luck on getting your problem fixed, you can also cancel the charges on your credit card if you used one.

[digitalmdj]

The sad thing about this machine is it has potential. The Chinese have the ability and tooling to make a great machine. And it wouldn't cost anymore money. But like John they are just interested in profits not quality. Where has pride gone in this country. JT doesn't have any it is very apparent after you buy one of his machines. He act like no one else has complained before.

[cncadmin]

This thread goes against the purpose and the rules of CNCzone.