[[email protected]]

Hello,
This is my first post on CNC Zone. A VERY exciting site! I'm amazed at how large and in-depth it is!
I was wondering if there would be any interest in a fully funtional, ready to, "Plug and Play", CNC controller. 3 or 4 axis, 305 In. Oz. motors, 34-39 volt, 10-12 amp. power supply, VERY nicely built, for $499, for use with a PC. It can be seen at www.mikebeck.org
I can already see myself staying up WAY too late on "work nights" now!

[sansbury]

I think it's a very fair deal for a complete system but my gut tells me that you're in a weird in-between price point. A lot of people are going to look at the price of individual parts like the HobbyCNC board for $79 and not realize how much they'll spend on cases, PSU, etc. When they see $500 they'll think "well for that price I could buy Gecko drives!" The wise ones who know it's a fair deal will have learned that by building it and finding that the case, plugs, cords, switches etc. cost more than the controller board itself, which means they may not need to buy another.

[Replogle]

How about mill and lathe applications?
Randy

[MonoNeuron]

Motors AND a controller, It's a sweet deal at that price. Buy it.
Just read the post properly. Derrr. Sell it !
It's a sweet price

[[email protected]]

Gecko's that microstep down to 1/16 are like $150 EACH, and then there's the power supply, breakout board, MOTORS, cables, switches, fuses, enclosure...........BUT, I do like Gecko's. Have 4 of them on my Bridgeport!
Oh, and of course if you need more than 3 amps per phase.....................lizards live!

[[email protected]]

Perfect for either, or both. It's all about how much force is required to force the cutter into the work. About the only machine where that doesn't apply, are like plasma and oxy / fuel cutters. 305 Oz. should handle a medium size lathe, and a small/medium mill/drill, or mill only just fine. Plenty of torque for a larger machine, as far as actual cutting is concerned, which is done at slow speeds. (Gear/belt reduction). If you need lightening fas rapids, that would be slower, of course.

[[email protected]]

I've been building the boards and controllers for folks that have approached me, just on a one-off basis, for years, but just now have decided to put out some feelers, as a prelude to investing in some adverts. I have the shop space to set up for production, if it becomes necessary. That would be GREAT, by the way!

[fireballcnc]

That's a GREAT deal!
Lets see...I save about a week of some very touchy soldering,
assembling, testing, tuning, hoping I get it right or else, blow the chips.
Save shipping and waiting on transformers & cases, switches,
wires, etc, etc. You put it all together and I concentrate on making my
machine work....knowing my controller has been thoroughly
tuned & tested.

Cannot go wrong!

That's actually a Great service, Mike
John

[[email protected]]

Thanks, John.
Service is what it's all about, anymore. I gave up on being rich a long time ago. The more people that get machines up and running, the faster the hobby evolves. Shoot, I'm too old now to spend the money on the kinds of "sin" I'd want to anyways, without it killing me!
Hmm, ya reckon, a Hass TM-1 is a sin? ((-:: Well, maybe with the optional memory!

[bp092]

Looks interesting. I'm not any electronics techy but I try. One thing I failed at was fully hooking up my controller (limits, estop, multifunction cards) and all that. I would pay a little more for a package like that to have it done for me; for sure. Anyhow, do you have any plans to advance that controller a bit more? adding more cards to allow for more features such as a safety charge pump, ac relay? estops? Might be a bit better for you as the basic setup itself isn't hard for the average joe to put together with a little homework done right. Welcome to cnczone!

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the welcome!
Yes. I concur. A charge pump would definitely be a worthwhile addition.
I've tried to make the home/limit thing a no brainer, especially now that I include the home and limit switch kit with the controllers. That's always seemed to be a stumbling block for allot of folks.
It's somewhat of a time/money thing for allot of folks. By the time you invest the time locating, ordering, pay for shipping on trans, big cap, enclosure, scrounge all the MANY bits and pieces, machine the case, and yada yada. Soldering up the board's not hard. Fun, for allot of folk, but there is always the risk. Apply power and nada, zip, zilch, oops. A c-note down.
I think an e-stop is for sure in the near furure. One with, say, a 6 Ft. cord, or so. BIG red button. Perhaps externally adjustable Vref, idle current time/level, that type of thing.
Good to be here!

[bp092]

Glad you are open to suggestions. A more custom look for the controller might be nice as well instead of a diy sort of look. I actually have the same case on my controller. Best of luck with the site.

[[email protected]]

Good suggestion. ALWAYS open for them! Perhaps a different front pannel made from a laminate that could be engraved, might be a start, rather than adhesive lables, or anodized aluminum, laser engraved.
Thanks much!

[fireballcnc]

Hi Mike,

Lets say I want to try your ready to run controller.
I could be focusing on my mechanics here.
How long does it take to get one?

Thanks,
John

[snovak240]

Welcome... Nice unit, but careful.... By the time you start making it look better in a different case, more switches and cables and capabilities, you'll be priced out of the hobby market. I dont think any of us will ever get rich at what we are doing, but look at the bright side. It could be 7am Monday morning. Have fun with it Mike

[[email protected]]

Yes, that's the LAST thing I want to do, is price it out of the "Hobby" arena, OR not have fun with it. It is, afterall, my hobby too. Looking at it from a "commercial enterprise" point of view, takes allot of the fun out of it, for me. 7 AM? I've USUALLY gotten 2 hrs. of sleep by then! (Night-owl) to the max (-:

THANKS!

[[email protected]]

Well, no more than a week, at the outside, at this point. Probably more like 3-4 days. If there's sufficient interest, I'll dust off the old tabletop wave machine, clear some of the 50 years of "Packrat" fodder off of the work tables, and go for same, or next day shipping.

[sansbury]

My opinion is that DIY CNC is a great hobby but a bad business.

If you buy parts and build as the orders come in, and the money goes to pay for the annual vacation, then none of this really matters. The trick comes when you try to run it like a real business and make more money. This is where I see problems.

There are three things you need to think about. The first, and most important, is how much it costs you to sell the product to one customer. The second is how much it will cost you to support the product. Think about warranties, replacement when people fry their unit by wiring incorrectly, returns, etc. The third is how much the customer is willing to pay for the product. The difference between this and the first two costs is what you have to spend on manufacturing and profit.

Most people start with a manufacturing cost and build a price from there. This is a predictable route to failure because in most products the cost of sale and cost of support are equal or larger than the manufacturing cost.

Let's look at market dynamics. There are two guys who define the ends of the market well. Dave at HobbyCNC builds a great value board. The kit costs less than buying the parts from Mouser and etching your own boards. At the other end, Gecko gives enough to run many "professional" applications but at a price still within reach of the serious hobbyist. One guy is cheap and the other guy is luxury. I hate being in the middle because customers will always say that you're too expensive or that the product isn't good enough. Middle-of-the-road products have a place in very large markets (like automobiles) but this is a very small niche market and I think it may be too small to support a middle-market play, which is what this feels like.

Oh, and we haven't even gotten to inventory yet. That's another great way to lose your shirt.

What I would be interested to do if I weren't busy enough running my business (which has nothing to do w/ CNC) and building my toys at night, is to do a really good analysis of the current and potential market to see if there's an opportunity to move say 1000-5000 units. At that volume, with offshore manufacturing, you might be able to bring the price way down. I've been tempted to shop an RFP around just to see what I'd get, but I wouldn't be shocked if I could cut the price down by half, maybe more. Now the same set you're talking about for $300MSRP, that would be something. Heck, drop to ~120oz motors and a 12-24V PSU, and maybe we can get this under $150. But the truth is I'm tied up in other things that are probably much better ROI so I stick to doing this for fun at the moment.

Oh, one last thing- worth considering that a recession would likely kill a business like this dead. If people are still doing hobby CNC they'll be doing it as cheaply as possible. You may not want to get rich but small businessmen who live long-term often do so by banking up great years to stay alive through the bad ones. Personally I hate working for someone so I want my business to work well enough to keep me from having to get a jobby job again soon unless it's for fun or to learn something new.

[sansbury]

OK, I lied. One more last thing

If you do still do this, I would definitely allot a healthy chunk of the budget to putting it in a fancy, industrial, impressive-looking case. In fact, I'd take that over a charge pump or a lot of other features. Buyers are extremely superficial and I want it to look like something I *couldn't* build myself. Your work looks very high-quality and probably better than most mass-manufactured but it still has that DIY smell on it. I think the case is as important as what's inside it.

Now, I don't *like* the fact that this is how buyers behave, but it doesn't change the fact that it's often true.

[[email protected]]

Well, it's worked out OK for the last several years. So far, not one controller's had a problem, that anyone's made me aware of. (Haven't changed my e-mail address). All the way back to Daves original engraved boards. The controllers spun off of my router kit sales. Over the years, I've ammassed a pretty good inventory of parts and supplies. Always got enough on hand to put together a dozen or so, so it's not like I have to worry about a cash-flow kind of thing. I've been self employed for over 40 years, so I'm used to the ebb and flow. Even got a couple of recessions under my belt. Have been thinking about building some up controllers to have on hand for "same day shipping". Just haven't posted on CNC Zone until now. GREAT site! Glad I did! SUPER feedback!