[will_b]

About 7 years ago I bought a Bridgeport Boss 5 milling machine from a shop in Rochester, NY. The setup featured a teletype machine interfaced with the BP controller and I could generate tape or drip G code to the machine. Life was good, I got proficient correcting the code BobCad would generate and the machine did all that I could ask of it. After a couple of years and in the middle of parts run though the bugger got REAL erratic. Until that moment, I’d never really routed around inside the cabinet much. I quickly decided that the aging and massive capacitors had seen better days, that there would be no quick fix and that the job still had to go out the door. I finished the job using a conventional mill and figured I'd fix the BP when I had time.

Fast forward thru 4 or 5 years of staring at the non running lump and that brings the story to last November / December when I decided to bite the bullet and do an AJAX / Centroid DIY conversion. I had, by then, read all kinds of literature, pondered numerous options and somewhere in there joined CNCZone. During those non running years I stripped the BP of everything that would not be needed with a conversion. I also rebuilt the ball screws, replaced spindle bearings and patiently waited for "the day." I guess the machine is kinda ugly but really tight. I always seemed to either have the time but no money or money and no time. This, I vowed, would end this winter.

After a fresh quote from Jesse I ordered the kit and three weeks later I drove down to the Altoona exit off of I80 and went to pick up my goodies. I learned that AJAX and Centroid were in the same building. I discovered a very professional operation with everyone helpful but distractedly busy. I always figured busy was a good sign when dealing with a new vendor. Unfortunately, I did not meet Jesse as his mother had died that week. I was treated courteously, given a “grand tour” of the entire Centroid operation, had all of my questions answered and reservations addressed. I came home with several boxes of well packed goodies.

The machine hadn’t been used for several years so I wasn’t in any great hurry to do the conversion and install. I just sort of poked away at it. I restore antique aircraft for a living and at any given moment the shop can be littered with anything (steel tubing, aluminum, spruce, fabric etc). I have a very complete metal and wood shop at home while my maintenance hanger is tucked off in the mountains. Dust can be a problem sometimes so I decided that the conversion needed to be entirely “closed cabinet.” The tape reader cabinet had been disposed of ages ago- along with the guts that were in it. That left only the power cabinet on the back of the machine for the retrofit. Into this I shoe horned a cannibalized PC (the ultimate ‘case mod!’, Variable Frequency Drive (more on this later), various power supplies (transformers) , relays, the AJAX/Centroid ‘brain’ / PLC. It took some planning but nothing too outrageous. The servos installed flawlessly with the only slowdown when I realized that I too would need a spacer for the z axis servo. (I’d been warned in a CNCZone thread- thanks). Apparently this spacer is required on some BP conversions but not others. The only other ‘mod’ required more than straight bolting together was having to open the keyway on the z axis servo pulley. A Dumont broach tackled that issue in short order. After that it was really just a matter of chasing wire. The prints are clear, the manual readable and very utilitarian. The tech pages available on the AJAX website flushed out almost all other issues. When undecipherable issues arose Jesse Meagher provided some of the most timely and useful phone support that I’ve ever gotten anywhere for anything. Most of my problems with the install were self made, but that didn’t deter Jesse from providing continued support until everything was perfect. That had been one of my greatest fears when starting into this. If I had a problem who would really be there to help? That fear disappeared with the first call to AJAX. Actually I can’t say enough good things about the whole experience.

As for the conversion… well here is a summary of thoughts:
In doing the conversion again I would
1.) Replace the quill and motor pulleys on the machine with rigid 1:1 timing belt pulleys and a new belt rather that make the existing variable pulley system work with collars and lock downs.
2.) I would replace the spindle brake solenoid rather than install the dedicated 24VDC power supply just to drive that one unit. The speed control solenoids were removed when I chose to use the VFD.
3.) I would not be so hasty in removing the tape reader cabinet as the extra real estate would greatly simplify the install process. There are oodles of extra cable length to accomodate using multiple cabinets.
4.) I would buy a new micro ATX motherboard, chipset and power supply rather than using the cannibalized spare computer I had sitting around. This would cost an additional $150 (www.newegg.com) but have a vastly smaller footprint and save the time doing my “case mod”. What is NOT readily apparent from the AJAX site is just how barebones the computer can be.
5.) The software version of Linux and the AJAX/Centroid software will not accommodate a CD drive. If, as I did, you network the CNC to your regular desktop- a hard drive install is both unnecessary and a waste of time. The Linux will recognize a USB thumb drive (it even recognizes the hard drive portion of my iPod using a USB connector!!) but doesn’t want to recognize any other kind of input device except an obsolete 3.5” floppy. So really all you need is the AJAX hard drive, the Ajax interface board, a USB port and an Ethernet port.

My first part off of the machine was milled from a solid billet of 4130, 7” long, 5”wide and 2” thick. I used Solid Works to design the part & Esprit 2007 to generate the 3D tool paths. The part is a governor yoke for a 1929 International Harvester Farm engine. The pic shows the three places cracked original and my freshly CNC’d replacement. The second little task was a science project with my 13 year old son. He did the set-ups and did the drawings to generate code. We’re especially pleased with the spur gears- everything made with MDF and some spare bearings that hadn’t been looked at in years. The goal was a rubber band powered vehicle designed to go the greatest distance. His science teacher provided each in the class with the rubber bands...

In closing, the Intercon milling software package that comes with the AJAX conversion can do about 99% of all the machining that I would normally do. It’s powerful and very intuitive. It has proven sufficient at almost all 2 1/2D tasks. The Esprit and Solid Works fills in around the edges by easily creating true 3D tool paths. I probably wouldn’t / shouldn't have even bothered acquiring a CAD / CAM package in retrospect.

Them’s me thoughts- what do you think?
Find me on the web: www.SpecialtyAero.com

[colin1544]

Hello will great to see that someone else has had some good success with there aging boss 5 you say that because of the dust using it on alot of wood and MDF you have done a closed cabinet but have you still put some form of fan cooling into the cabinet as it can get quite warm with the transformers and I have have my VFD trip because of overheating in the summer when temperatures got up to 30 degrees C plus. And yes the initial sales info could possibly be more informative as the needs for a particular machine especially with them saying that its a true Bridgeport boss retrofit kit for the DIY brigade because if you are more mechanicly biased and not fully conversant with some of the electronic symbols and switching methods you can get a bit lost. The manual could do with an actual retrofit with a blow by blow description and explanation of what the switching circuits for the extra inputs and outputs can do and a photo of the actual parts used which are needed to create these small switching curcuit's also the extras that are sometimes need may be more apparent as like you say there are things that you would do differently if you had more insight into the retrofit, just my two pennyworth, but best of luck with your machine Cheers Colin1544

[will_b]

Hi Colin-
Yes, I agree with most of what you have said.

I think the power supply cabinet will have adequate cooling- I re-used the existing cooling fans and installed new filters made (cut) from multiple layer of furnace filters. I installed all componets onto the existing steel plate at the back of the cabinet which was vent perforated by Bridgeport. I guess I'll know more next summer. This morning it was -13F when I walked to the shop.

As for the wiring- I figured that I didn't much care about all of the extra aux inputs and outputs. The power lube system wired in nicely. The coolant pump system wired in nicely- tho' I rarely use one. (Usually I just mist cool continuously using a Trico nozzle, aquarium pump and complressed air with hoses going from thge table to 5 gal. plastic recovery buckets. But mostly, because of what I machine, I use solid carbide cutters and low cutting speeds. I don't run a production shop. So if a prototype is chewed away for 2 hrs or 10 hrs I don't care about anything other than a good first article for inspection.) The rest of the I/O's I figured were for items I didn't buy- rotary table, digitizing etc...

For the most part- wiring was a matter of matching up numbers and/or colors. But you're right that things can be confusing- that's when a call or email to Jesse Meagher proved most useful.
Thanks for the reply.
Where are you located?
Will

[colin1544]

Hello will I am located in Nottingham in the UK so getting contact with Jesse is a bit awkward due to time differences cheers for now Colin

[Eric Barnett]

I have a Bridgeport Series 1 with a Boss series 5 controller and I'm considering retrofitting it now. Can you disclose what the total price was when this retrofit was all said and done?

[MikeMcTague]

Hi Eric,

I am treating myself to a BP Series II Interact 2, hasn't run in over 3 yrs but is going cheap. It has a 145 TNC Heidenhain controller which I intend to replace with an Ajax/Mach 3 setup running on Windows 7. I too am interested in how much this will all set me back but i don't intend replacing servo motors or controllers or the encoder interface board (the Heidenhain encoders provide Sin/Cosine output signal apparently). I only have single phase 220V so I will get a Hitachi W200 (or Omron MX2, same thing) inverter. I will fit an encoder to the main spindle which will allow the inverter to do simple positioning of the spindle (clever feature of this particular inverter) in case I ever decided to build an automatic too changer. Also having the encoder will allow me to do rigid tapping. Going to build a servo rotary table also so I should have a 5 axis CNC some day. It was either that or a motorbike, reckon I will live longer with the CNC. Let me know how you get on.

Mike

[Eric Barnett]

Thanks for the info. I decided to take the plunge and buy the Ajax retrofit kit too. It was a bit pricey, since I needed the servo motors but I kept everything else very simple. I found out that you can add to later so that makes it nice.

So far it is going well. I took my time and cleaned up the original control cabinet so I can reuse it. I'm going to keep it original looking from the outside. I hope to start placing components this weekend.

As far as my opinion so far, the kit comes with nothing! Well, maybe I shouldn't say that, but it is crazy how quickly the hardware that it doesn't come with adds up. If anyone who is reading this plans on buying this kit, be ready to spend another couple thousand dollars for all the extras. I'll post more as I make progress on this thing.

[MikeMcTague]

Eric, can you elaborate a bit on the extra hardware that you required, that sounds a bit ominous.

Mike

[Eric Barnett]

Eric, can you elaborate a bit on the extra hardware that you required, that sounds a bit ominous.

Mike

Just the usual elecronics and electromechanical stuff I guess. Relays, lots of wiring, OCR's, etc. I asked Ajax when I was doing my homework if I would be able to reuse the original bridgeport stuff to control my spindle motor. They said I should but once I got the print and started to figure it out I realized that my contactors had the wrong combination of NO/NC contacts, and the voltage for the coil was wrong, so they were no good. It's no big deal really, I'm probably better off with new stuff. It's just crazy how fast the cost of all the stuff you need to get to make it all work adds up.

In a nutshell, the kit comes with the prewired servo motors, a transformer, a capacitor, the all in 1 DC, and that's it. There is a whole lot more that you need to make it all come together.

Ajax has been more than helpful, they've already answered several of my questions in the last couple weeks.

Tonight I made a bracket for monitor and keyboard. Tomorrow I start placing components in the cabinet.

[grigsby]

Hello,
We have some bridgeport's with boss controlls and need some boss 4-5-6 cards. does anybody have some cards for boss that they want to get rid of?
I am not ready to retrofit and want to nurse along what we have for now.
Email me and tell me what you have and want to get rid of. thanks grigsbyatwowwaydotcom

[jshank]

I will be removing all electronics from a Boss 5 Bridgeport series 1 machine in the near future for a conversion to an Ajax cnc control system. If anyone needs electronics part or the old stepper motors email me. I am located in south central PA.

[polaraligned]

Jshank,

I have a 5 axis Ajax setup that is brand new. I will sell it for cheap. It currently is on my bench and I have verified proper operation. I have 3 Baldor servos connected to it. I will sell with or without the servos. You are close enough to me that you can come see it operating. I am selling it because I want to run a W axis on my machine and need some programability that is not available to me with the Ajax. It is a very good control, but not going to work for me.

Let me know if interested.

Scott

[cnckeith]

Scott, hello. say what kind of programming were you trying to do and couldn't? thanks, Keith

[polaraligned]

Hi Keith,

I would like to use my knee as a "W" axis to do TLO's. Problem with these knee mills is always the small Z travel. I also made a pendant with MPG, Jog control and other features. I know I could easily implement these in Mach (and have done so before), but using the AJAX I am not sure due to lack of documentation for customizing.

I discussed using the knee for TLO's with Scott, and he made a face for a minute and said "Pretty sure it can be done". Maybe he can do it with his experience and access to the tech data, but I am pretty sure I cannot do it with current documentation I have.

I have my drive currently zipping along running G-code with the 3 axis motors sitting on the floor. Really impressed with this hardware. I have seen a couple of Mach issues so far and would expect more. This hardware was designed for CNC11 and I am sure it would perform best being controlled by it. Mach is still only a hobby program.

If I went with CNC11, is it customizable by the end user?
Is there a manual to do so?
Even if for now I could get the knee to go up and down under MPG control and display the height on the screen, that would be a huge first step for me.

Any help appreciated.

Thank You,
Scott

[cncsnw]

There is no reason you couldn't set up your knee as a W axis and move it with the MPG; with jog keys; or with programmed commands.

CNC11 will not apply tool length offsets on the W axis; only on the Z.

In the example below, I will assume that the W axis is a knee, and that negative W moves the knee up (equivalent to negative Z, moving the tool and work closer together).

You could write a macro (perhaps customizing M6) which would move the W axis to pre-set positions based on the tool number being loaded. For example, an "mfunc6.mac" file could say something like this:

G0 G90
G53 W0 Z0 ; move Z and W both to their machine home positions
M0 ; Insert tool and press CYCLE START
IF [#4120 == 1] THEN G53 W-8 ; bring W up to working height for T1
IF [#4120 == 2] THEN G53 W-4 ; T2 is about 4" longer than T1
IF [#4120 == 3] THEN G53 W-4 ; T3 is about the same as T2
IF [#4120 == 4] THEN G53 W-8 ; T4 is pretty short
IF [#4120 == 5] THEN G53 W-6
IF [#4120 == 6] THEN G53 W-2 ; T6 is pretty long
; and so on

With a little more programming, you could make the tool change macro look up the W position for the current (previous) tool and the requested one, and only move the knee to the lower of the two for the change, rather than moving it all the way down for every tool change.

If you purchased the Auto Tool Changer software option, then you could set Parameter 6 = 1 (even though your "Auto Tool Change" macro has an M0 in it and expects you to change tool manually).

With P6 = 1, you would have the "F7/ATC" key available on the Offset Library screen, so you could get the pre-programmed W movement done for each tool as you are touching off and setting tool height offsets in Z.


In answer to your other question, no. You cannot freely customize the screen layout and buttons in CNC11. There are many factory-provided features and options to choose from, but there is no provision for putting your own buttons on the screen with arbitrary functions.

[cnckeith]

say cncsnw, could polaraligned use Z axis summing feature to get what he's after?

[cncsnw]

Probably, if he set up the knee as a power feed instead of a servo W axis.

I would be very surprised if the scale summing feature works with a servo-controlled axis being the "scale". Maybe someone with time on their hands could try it out and see what happens.

[polaraligned]

Thanks CNCSNW,

That is an option that I can live with. Scott did seem to think the W could be used for TLO's , but I will be happy just being able to move the knee with good accuracy.

I guess my worst problem with the knee will be dealing with backlash. I wonder if glass scales could be used in a real soft servo loop. Sounds like problems...

I have been in contact with AJAX support and their response has been excellent. Direct E-mail seems to be the best way to get them, even though I thought the AJAX support forum was set up by them to provide support.

Thanks Again.

[alfalfa]

P.A. Don't know if you ever got this machine functioning, but I will throw out a suggestion regarding backlash in W.

Here is what we do for non-coordinated axes (in this case, not moving while machining - positioning only):

- in simple terms - always finish your positioning move in the UP direction (calibrate your axis in the same manner.)

Explanation:
- If moving W from lower to higher (physical height) - just move to position.
- If moving W from higher to lower - move to a position slightly lower than target (this would somewhat depend how bad your backlash is, but should not need to be more than .100-.200"), then raise W to target position.

I don't know if there is a way to get behind the scenes in AJAX/Mach and make it do that by default every time there is a W move, otherwise you would have to add an extra line in your nc file to force it to do it.

OK - that was longer than I anticipated, hopefully it help someone.

[Johns tool room]

Keeping in Mind what Alfalfa is talking about and how I like to only use teh quill to extend no more than 3/4 inch when milling. I should always keep the quill extedn by .250" then if moving down the table for -z of say 1" . I should retract the quill up move the table down 1.15 then move the table back up to 1.0 and extend the quill back to the usuall.

My question is how do I program the knee to only move on non drilling cycles when - Z >.750" and for TLO purposes ? Is there a macro I write for the controller or something. I know nothing about these things.