[DubMFG]

Now, I need to preface that my plan is to go with a Baldor motor, but given how cheap these Iron Horse motors are from Automation Direct (3600RPM, 3Ph 230V 1.5HP) Its hard not to wonder what if?

https://www.sqone.com/baldor-vem31120?fee=1&fep=17943

Anyone have any insight to the quality of these motors?

Thanks!

-Dubmfg

[Fastest1]

It is the size that is hard to deal with. That frame size will dwarf the G0704. Like my 6" machinist vise does ;-) No doubt it would help chew thru anything though.

[lcvette]

I am running a 2hp iron horse by marathon on my G0704, initially it was a bit loud and had some vibration but I believe it was due to the fan. This cheated up before the end of the break in period, not sure how or why, but it's smooth now. It is the 3600rpm unit and I run it at 1:1 pulley ratio and get a solid 5400rpm out of it. It is a beast of a motor but it's a big sucker to say the least. If you have or will have a power draw bar, it will require a 2" head & base spacer. But as far as being a good motor, it's been issue free since installation this past winter.

It rips through material and doesn't even dip in rpm. It can easily over power the mill and it won't stop with deep cuts.. I actually had a 3/8" 3 flute 1.25" LOC endmill pull out (TTS Holder) on an already hefty cut ( .75" doc, 20% stepover, 5000rpm 37.5ipm) and I got a slight bit of chatter and the tool pulled down.... It continued pulling down and kept cutting until I noticed a slight change in the cutting sound.. I saw the tool holder gap between the spindle at about 1/2" and jumped for the E-stop. Didn't hurt the tool or the part because it had the power to keep cutting even as it was ramping at a really heavy angle. See picture below. Any other motor I've used in the past would have stalled and broke the endmill. That should be a testament to the torque even at higher rpm these 3ph AC motors put out. See pictures below for visual elaboration of the above experience..lol. Made me realize i could push things even harder on my speak and straight ramping enhanced..lol







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[Paul-JB]

I replaced the motor on my 11x30 Colchester with a 2hp 3phase Iron Horse. 134T I think was the frame size. ridiculously inexpensive imo, like $200
Runs great and no issues in 3 years. I had to tear it all apart to reverse the electrical box orientation to fit my machine so I got to see it in all its Chinese glory. Crummy green paint, rough casting, 1/2 tapped holes the usual. A Baldor it is not but other than above, I have been pleased with it.

[lcvette]

Now, I need to preface that my plan is to go with a Baldor motor, but given how cheap these Iron Horse motors are from Automation Direct (3600RPM, 3Ph 230V 1.5HP) Its hard not to wonder what if?

https://www.sqone.com/baldor-vem31120?fee=1&fep=17943

Anyone have any insight to the quality of these motors?

Thanks!

-Dubmfg

I would suggest this, russtuff and myself both bought one and you will not find a better deal for a true inverter duty treated motor with 1000:1 constant torque rating and it's supplied with an encoder attached. Couple it with a Durapulse GS3 22P0 VFD with feed back card and you can run it in full vector feedback mode. This is by far an absolute crap of the century for a new inverter motor. Regular retail on these is over $1k.

Marathon Y284 1.5 HP Electric Motor at Dealers Electric

It is only a few bucks more than an ironhorse for a lot more motor, and no need for a Baldor down the road!

Chris

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[Connor]

I would suggest this, russtuff and myself both bought one and you will not find a better deal for a true inverter duty treated motor with 1000:1 constant torque rating and it's supplied with an encoder attached. Couple it with a Durapulse GS3 22P0 VFD with feed back card and you can run it in full vector feedback mode. This is by far an absolute crap of the century for a new inverter motor. Regular retail on these is over $1k.

Marathon Y284 1.5 HP Electric Motor at Dealers Electric

It is only a few bucks more than an ironhorse for a lot more motor, and no need for a Baldor down the road!

Chris

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Interesting, says it's only rated @ 1800RPM. What pulley arrangement are you using and what's the max RPM you can get with your spindle ?

[lcvette]

Interesting, says it's only rated @ 1800RPM. What pulley arrangement are you using and what's the max RPM you can get with your spindle ?

It's an inverter duty motor, the base rpm rating is always listed at 60hz. The operating range of the motor is 0rpm to 5400rpm max, the most efficient operating range is from 2hz to 120hz which is 1.7rpm to 3600rpm. You would pulley it accordingly for your machine requirements. I'm using mine on a lathe so it will have a 1:1 pulley and a 2:1 pulley for turning small and large diameter parts.

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[DubMFG]

It's an inverter duty motor, the base rpm rating is always listed at 60hz. The operating range of the motor is 0rpm to 5400rpm max, the most efficient operating range is from 2hz to 120hz which is 1.7rpm to 3600rpm. You would pulley it accordingly for your machine requirements. I'm using mine on a lathe so it will have a 1:1 pulley and a 2:1 pulley for turning small and large diameter parts.

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Wow, thats a deal. I really am set on the 3600 rpm motor though, I'd rather be hitting 3600RPM at 60HZ with room to overfreq it than max it out from the get go.

Wonder if they have a 3600rpm version.

EDIT: I looked, what do you think of this guy? Baldor CSSSWDM3550T 1.5 HP Electric Motor at Dealers Electric

[lcvette]

Wow, thats a deal. I really am set on the 3600 rpm motor though, I'd rather be hitting 3600RPM at 60HZ with room to overfreq it than max it out from the get go.

Wonder if they have a 3600rpm version.

I don't think you'll have much luck finding an inverter duty motor with 3600rpm. Ideally the lower rpm is better and you simply overdrive it with a 1:2 pulley combination. The higher rpm motor have half the torque as the low rpm motors so over driving is easier on the motor bearings without any loss of torque or horsepower.

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[DubMFG]

I don't think you'll have much luck finding an inverter duty motor with 3600rpm. Ideally the lower rpm is better and you simply overdrive it with a 1:2 pulley combination. The higher rpm motor have half the torque as the low rpm motors so over driving is easier on the motor bearings without any loss of torque or horsepower.

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Oh, well thanks for that tidbit of info, I really appreciate it! The encoder is a nice touch as well.

The downside is even with a 2:1 ratio on the pulley I would need 5:1 to get over 10k rpm, unless I overfreq the **** out of it.

[lcvette]

No you wouldn't.. at 120hz it will turn 7200rpm with. 2:1 pulley and the motor is rated to 5400rpm, you could push it up to 180hz and it would turn 10,800rpm with. 2:1 pulley

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[lcvette]

Besides, of you need over 10k rpm, I think you are going to want to have a second router type spindle maybe, that will be really really hard on the big spindle bearings in the head. Out of curiosity, what are you doing that requires 10k RPM? There may be a better solution for your needs maybe.

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[SCzEngrgGroup]

Out of curiosity, what are you doing that requires 10k RPM?

MIlling aluminum with any tool under about 1/2" can make very good use of 10K RPM, even with HSS tools...

Regards,
Ray L.

[lcvette]

MIlling aluminum with any tool under about 1/2" can make very good use of 10K RPM, even with HSS tools...

Regards,
Ray L.

Already rode this carousel with you before. I don't see the benefit unless he is primarily running tiny endmills for 3D machining with super tight stepover. Otherwise it's pointless to run anything larger then a 1/4" endmill at those speeds because you aren't going to be able to run the step over to make use of the larger diameter tools.

I know you like to run 100+ipm with a 0.010" stepover and I think that makes no sense especially on a dovetail machine. Unless as stated there is a reason for such a small stepover ie.. ballnose for 3D etc.

Chris

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[SCzEngrgGroup]

Already rode this carousel with you before. I don't see the benefit unless he is primarily running tiny endmills for 3D machining with super tight stepover. Otherwise it's pointless to run anything larger then a 1/4" endmill at those speeds because you aren't going to be able to run the step over to make use of the larger diameter tools.

I know you like to run 100+ipm with a 0.010" stepover and I think that makes no sense especially on a dovetail machine. Unless as stated there is a reason for such a small stepover ie.. ballnose for 3D etc.

Chris

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No, I like to run over 100IPM with anything from 0.050-0.125" stepover. But, whatever....

Regards,
Ray L.

[RTP_Burnsville]

I have been using a 1 hp iron horse, 3 phase with VFD on my lathe for about 4 years and it is just fine.

Robert

[DubMFG]

Already rode this carousel with you before. I don't see the benefit unless he is primarily running tiny endmills for 3D machining with super tight stepover. Otherwise it's pointless to run anything larger then a 1/4" endmill at those speeds because you aren't going to be able to run the step over to make use of the larger diameter tools.

I know you like to run 100+ipm with a 0.010" stepover and I think that makes no sense especially on a dovetail machine. Unless as stated there is a reason for such a small stepover ie.. ballnose for 3D etc.

Chris

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I am planning on doing 3D surfacing work on some very small dies in the future here for prototype injection mold runs. Faster = more better. All bearings in the head will be replaced with more capable units.

[lcvette]

I am planning on doing 3D surfacing work on some very small dies in the future here for prototype injection mold runs. Faster = more better. All bearings in the head will be replaced with more capable units.

Than yes I agree, and I would advise that you make sure your way lubrication system is really really well setup and that you have a programmable automatic oiler. All those fast moves and long machining times will wear out the unhardened dovetails on these machines.

In fact, I would strongly consider a linear rail conversion, especially for the Z axis since the cantilevered weight will add to the wear rate. Also I might consider a high rpm water-cooled spindle for that type of work. Would be helpful to have both a strong main spindle for roughing, facing, etc and use a work offset for a side mounted 20k rpm spindle. I think keeping affordable spindle bearings alive at 10k+ rpm for long runs is going to be problematic, and high quality bearings are going to really hot your wallet. This is going to be really important for tiny endmills where run-out has a more significant impact on actual chip load.

For more conventional type machining the z axis doesn't see near the movement that it will see with 3D machining. X and Y axis won't see near the load from all the movement and will last alot longer, but will still be critical for proper adjustment and really well thought out lubrication.

Depending on the size of the molds, it may be a beneficial option to find a well built linear rail type gantry machine for this type of work. Not sure if that is something you had considered. There are a few people using the G0704 in a light production environment and these are some of the issues that have arisen from that type of demand on the machine. It would be great if the ways we hardened and ground but at this price point, you're fortunate if the machine comes with decently finished ways.

Chris

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[DubMFG]

For more conventional type machining the z axis doesn't see near the movement that it will see with 3D machining. X and Y axis won't see near the load from all the movement and will last alot longer, but will still be critical for proper adjustment and really well thought out lubrication.

Depending on the size of the molds, it may be a beneficial option to find a well built linear rail type gantry machine for this type of work. Not sure if that is something you had considered. There are a few people using the G0704 in a light production environment and these are some of the issues that have arisen from that type of demand on the machine. It would be great if the ways we hardened and ground but at this price point, you're fortunate if the machine comes with decently finished ways.

Chris

Thanks Chris, yes, a secondary spindle or otherwise are planned for the future, but the dream is to only have this machine last for 2-3 years, or less. Ideally I would move to a something with servos ASAP, just need to get the work out the door until I can make that happen financially. It comes down to how much do I want to polish a turd at the end of the day.

[cut2cut]

Edit, I just found your other thread detailing your experience....

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...rmation-2.html

Chris, I have the marathon inverter motor that you and Russ have. I'm hopeful of making use of the motors encoder with a soon to be purchased Mesa Ethernet controller. You mentioned a Durapulse VFD. Can you elaborate further on what hardware is needed to work with the encoder and if there might be other brand VFD's to use that have the capability to interface with a Mesa Controller? Why did you suggest this particular VFD? Was it this feature alone or some other reason as well.
Thanks, Jake


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