[lcvette]

Why don't the mfg's use an even number of slots to help balance.

More accuracy.

Don

Mach3 only accepts a single pulse per revolution.. I have been watching progress on some Linux cnc conversions and it looks like they accept quadrature encoders. Definitely something I'm considering switching too. Especially once the Pathpilot issues are sorted out.

Chris

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[DonKes]

If you wanted to be tricky, put a flip-flop is series. (converts 2 pulses to one step function).

Don

[lcvette]

Interesting! For now though I purposely left some meat on the index disc so I could drill material from the base boss to balance as needed once I get to that step.

I plan on balancing in sequence starting with the motor pulley on the motor first by itself. Then once that is balanced, I will balance the quill barrel attached to the motor with the belt, then once that is balanced I will slide the spindle in and balance it with a balancing ring. This should get everything as close to zero balance as possible. Hoping it turns out nice and smooth when finished!!

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[lcvette]

Ok, got everything out back together and running for eating break in, wow is the newly designed belt drive quiet!!! Can't believe how smooth it is compared to the timing pulley setup.

Also decided I would see how the new Nachi tapered roller bearings looked as far as runout was concerned and was pleased to see it was at or under .0001" prior to bedding in! They did get a bit warm during break in. Does anyone know what type of preload I should be running? Right now I snugged up the bearing retainer so it turned smooth with just a hint of resistance.

I am still running the BLDC motor so I can't go above about 1400rpm or it vibrates horribly.. Will have to machine all of the new motor mount parts going dreadfully slow being limited to 1400rpm..lol. That's on the agenda for tomorrow to get the new motor mounts made for the 2hp AC motor.

Does anyone in here have a 3d printer by chance and feel like selling me one of the Hoss spindle shaft noise suppressors? Now that the spindle is being driven by the quill barrel it is quite noisy.

I'll post up some video shortly!

Chris

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[Fastest1]

Use the BTP spindle nut. The orings should shut it up.

[gcofieldd]

Ok, got everything out back together and running for eating break in, wow is the newly designed belt drive quiet!!! Can't believe how smooth it is compared to the timing pulley setup.

Also decided I would see how the new Nachi tapered roller bearings looked as far as runout was concerned and was pleased to see it was at or under .0001" prior to bedding in! They did get a bit warm during break in. Does anyone know what type of preload I should be running? Right now I snugged up the bearing retainer so it turned smooth with just a hint of resistance.

I am still running the BLDC motor so I can't go above about 1400rpm or it vibrates horribly.. Will have to machine all of the new motor mount parts going dreadfully slow being limited to 1400rpm..lol. That's on the agenda for tomorrow to get the new motor mounts made for the 2hp AC motor.

Does anyone in here have a 3d printer by chance and feel like selling me one of the Hoss spindle shaft noise suppressors? Now that the spindle is being driven by the quill barrel it is quite noisy.

I'll post up some video shortly!

Chris

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Hey lcvette
I was running the skf tapered roller bearings on my mill and the run hot. I switched to AC bearings. The skf site has tables for expected running temp based on rpm. My bearings were running within spec, but you get heat build up because the casting does not dissipate heat well. It will get to hot to touch at 6k.

[lcvette]

And some video as promised...


https://youtu.be/B9FyZWnEk2c


https://youtu.be/mhjl3NXEMpo

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[lcvette]

Hey lcvette
I was running the skf tapered roller bearings on my mill and the run hot. I switched to AC bearings. The skf site has tables for expected running temp based on rpm. My bearings were running within spec, but you get heat build up because the casting does not dissipate heat well. It will get to hot to touch at 6k.

I ran the AC bearings but they didn't want to last very long and it never felt nearly as tight and rigid as it did with the tapered roller bearings so I figured I would try an upgraded set of tapered rollers again. Did your tperd rollers ever "break in" and run cooler? I have read a few instances that after they bed in to the races they will run much cooler. Wasn't sure if yours ever got there or if you replaced them before they got there..?



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[lcvette]

Use the BTP spindle nut. The orings should shut it up.

Looking ok into that now!

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[gcofieldd]

I ran the AC bearings but they didn't want to last very long and it never felt nearly as tight and rigid as it did with the tapered roller bearings so I figured I would try an upgraded set of tapered rollers again. Did your tperd rollers ever "break in" and run cooler? I have read a few instances that after they bed in to the races they will run much cooler. Wasn't sure if yours ever got there or if you replaced them before they got there..?



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I am pretty sure they were broken in, but I am curious to see what your experience will be.

[lcvette]

Just wanted to report in that the new motor is on and has been running for quite a while now. The Nachi tapered roller bearings see 5400rpm for extended periods of time and rarely even get much warmer than room temperature. The spindle rigidity is significantly better then with the AC bearings, and the run-out is under .0001" even at the tool for most of my tts holders measured with a .00005" Brown and Sharpe best test indicator. The 2HP 3ph AC Motor is awesome and the multi rib belt drive doesn't slip even under hard cutting. Still whisper quiet with exception of the motor fan that makes some noise but it's very minor even at 5400rpm.

All of the little mods done really made a tremendous difference to the performance of the machine and the vibration in the upper rpm range. I highly recommend turning down the quill barrel and getting everything concentric and hoping with the Nachi TR bearings, best finish improvement I've made to the Machine by far!

I posted these before, but will post here again for new readers as an update to the progress of sorting out the spindle, motor, high rpm issues I was having and the results of the upgrade. Note that the new coolant I'm using also played a big part to the finish quality. It is Koolrite 2290 and is spectacular in every regard from finish to sump life (going on 8 months and smells and looks new still) and zero paint peeling or rust issues whatsoever!!

Pictures are showing side milling surfaces which I used to have problems with. Now they come out like smooth mirrors on all my parts. Love how the machine is working now!!





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[gcofieldd]

Alright Icvette you got me curious. How did you grease the bearing/how much grease and what was your break-in strategy for the bearings? I had a very different experience with the tapered roller bearings, but sounds like you know something that might help.

I definitely agree the tapered bearings are much more ridged than the AC bearings and I tend to push my machine as far as the motor will go.

[lcvette]

Alright Icvette you got me curious. How did you grease the bearing/how much grease and what was your break-in strategy for the bearings? I had a very different experience with the tapered roller bearings, but sounds like you know something that might help.

I definitely agree the tapered bearings are much more ridged than the AC bearings and I tend to push my machine as far as the motor will go.

Kluber grease, eyeballed it, liberal but not glooping out, just enough to coat everything. As far as break in, started at 500 rpm and went up 500 rpm at a time about every 5 minutes or so. when they started getting hot I slowed it down for a few minutes then went back up until they started to run cooler. After about 30 minutes they would not get scorching hot anymore so I reversed rpm increments reducing until I got back down to 500 rpm and ran it there another 5 minutes or so, then let it cool over night and removed them cleaned them, regreased and reinstalled setting preload by feel. They still got warm the first few runs but after that they barely got warm at all. I usually run at 5000-5400rpm and have run jobs over an hour or so and they stay nice and cool, probably no more than 80-90* F.

What is the issue you have encountered? Perhaps too much preload or maybe not enough? Also how is the vibration on your machine? What type drive? Belt? if so is it cogged? I run a multi rib type belt which is very smooth, at 5000rpm its silky smooth. I attribute the finishes to the lack of vibration and the coolant I'm using. The bearings made the biggest difference but I also turned down the quill barrel at the same time which greatly helped vibration issue I had.

Here is a part I ran just yesterday, finishes are like glass!



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[CL_MotoTech]

Well my VFD took a dump on me last night. For some reason when I entered s6000 I was only getting 4300 actual RPM. I shut it off, measured the voltage at the pwm output, I was getting 10v with s6000 commanded in MDI. When I went to turn the VFD back on I could hear it click but the panel no longer lights up and the VFD fails to make the BLDC motor turn. Dang, a big setback with a large load of prospective work on the table. Looks like I'll be reviewing your 2hp upgrade and roller bearings for this round. I was constantly having to adjust the AC bearings and the upper RPM vibration was always too much. I could see the tool shaking at high RPM, no bueno.

[gcofieldd]

What is the issue you have encountered? Perhaps too much preload or maybe not enough? Also how is the vibration on your machine? What type drive? Belt? if so is it cogged?

Hey Icvette, I think it is a little bit of everything you mentioned.

I think the grease I used was too viscous and I probably over packed the bearings. There may have also been a touch too much preload.

I am going to try and switch back to the tapered with the Kluber grease. I think that will make all of the difference.

Thanks man!

[lcvette]

Well my VFD took a dump on me last night. For some reason when I entered s6000 I was only getting 4300 actual RPM. I shut it off, measured the voltage at the pwm output, I was getting 10v with s6000 commanded in MDI. When I went to turn the VFD back on I could hear it click but the panel no longer lights up and the VFD fails to make the BLDC motor turn. Dang, a big setback with a large load of prospective work on the table. Looks like I'll be reviewing your 2hp upgrade and roller bearings for this round. I was constantly having to adjust the AC bearings and the upper RPM vibration was always too much. I could see the tool shaking at high RPM, no bueno.

Awe man that's no fun.. Yeah I went through that whole deal to many times, my gear of not knowing what motor to get and VFD to get with it was a task list that never seemed to take priority so I followed the pack with the year mill motor, then the BLDC, and after finally digging in to learn what I needed with the 3ph AC motor did it and my only regret is that it wasn't the very first motor upgrade I did.. sure would have saved me a bunch of time and money..Lol. Let me know if I can answer any questions you may have!

Chris

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[lcvette]

Hey Icvette, I think it is a little bit of everything you mentioned.

I think the grease I used was too viscous and I probably over packed the bearings. There may have also been a touch too much preload.

I am going to try and switch back to the tapered with the Kluber grease. I think that will make all of the difference.

Thanks man!

Ah, gotcha, yeah kluber is not the cheapest, but it sure works well and is thin and doesn't sling off or get pushed out of the way as bad. it seems to stay on the rollers some how. Seeing proofread is hard without a good tool that fits down in the barrel, if you don't have one I recommend making one, pretty simple piece on the mill (if your cnc'd that is). I can tell you that I never get it right first try, usually have to tighten, loosen, tap spindle and go again. It's good everything fits together tight, but when I over tighten the preload retainer I can loosen it and the preload doesn't change unless I tap the draw bar end of the Spindle. So I go really slow when tightening and because everything fits so snug it's hard to know when your seated and actually applying preload or still drawing the bearings into the seats. By feel, I know I like to feel just the slightest bit of drag to turn the spindle but I can still give it a twirl and she'll go a little bit after I've let go. Everything obviously loosens up slightly after break in which is when I clean and regrease and reset pre load.

Wish I could be a better help there!

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[gcofieldd]

Ah, gotcha, yeah kluber is not the cheapest, but it sure works well and is thin and doesn't sling off or get pushed out of the way as bad. it seems to stay on the rollers some how. Seeing proofread is hard without a good tool that fits down in the barrel, if you don't have one I recommend making one, pretty simple piece on the mill (if your cnc'd that is). I can tell you that I never get it right first try, usually have to tighten, loosen, tap spindle and go again. It's good everything fits together tight, but when I over tighten the preload retainer I can loosen it and the preload doesn't change unless I tap the draw bar end of the Spindle. So I go really slow when tightening and because everything fits so snug it's hard to know when your seated and actually applying preload or still drawing the bearings into the seats. By feel, I know I like to feel just the slightest bit of drag to turn the spindle but I can still give it a twirl and she'll go a little bit after I've let go. Everything obviously loosens up slightly after break in which is when I clean and regrease and reset pre load.

Wish I could be a better help there!

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That is good stuff man. Just nice to hear someone had success with tapered roller bearings. I think the real secret is the grease. That should make all the difference :cheers:

[DubMFG]

Any chance you'd turn me a set of those poly-vee pulleys?

[lcvette]

Any chance you'd turn me a set of those poly-vee pulleys?

I would be happy to except I'm currently building my lathe and the new big motor on mill is a terrible pain to change everything over to lathe mode and I have lots of stuff to finish machining on the lathe conversion.

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