[Learning2Machin]

I have been dragging my feet for 2 weeks now in making an order for a new 1100, my last decision is to buy an ATC or not to buy an ATC.

I have decided on the full enclosure to keep the chips and coolant in, and have been reading threads about the ATC. I will not be doing production type work, more prototypes and one off's. That said, I would love the ability to run a job and be doing other things. I can afford it if I want it, but I am slightly concerned about the reliability from the posts. Also, can the tool setter be integrated into the ATC macros so that every time you do a tool change you automatically get the tool height?

Any opinions one way or another would be helpful, this is the last holdup on my order.

One thing I would like to add, since I will be buying the enclosure with the mill, I feel like its now or never for the ATC. Once I get the enclosure on, I really don't plan on taking it off to put an ATC on, so that is why I am struggling so much. If not for the enclosure, I would just say I will hold off for now on the ATC and see how it is without it, but I feel some pressure for this reason.

[philbur]

I have been dragging my feet for 2 weeks now in making an order for a new 1100, my last decision is to buy an ATC or not to buy an ATC.

I have decided on the full enclosure to keep the chips and coolant in, and have been reading threads about the ATC. I will not be doing production type work, more prototypes and one off's. That said, I would love the ability to run a job and be doing other things. I can afford it if I want it, but I am slightly concerned about the reliability from the posts. Also, can the tool setter be integrated into the ATC macros so that every time you do a tool change you automatically get the tool height?

Any opinions one way or another would be helpful, this is the last holdup on my order.

One thing I would like to add, since I will be buying the enclosure with the mill, I feel like its now or never for the ATC. Once I get the enclosure on, I really don't plan on taking it off to put an ATC on, so that is why I am struggling so much. If not for the enclosure, I would just say I will hold off for now on the ATC and see how it is without it, but I feel some pressure for this reason.

You may be able to get on with other work once it is running your one-off or prototype but what about the time taken to set it up and verify it is going to perform as planned. Your total time in attendance may go up rather than down.

Something to think about, hopefully somebody with ATC/one-off experience will comment.

Phil

[Steve Seebold]

I have been dragging my feet for 2 weeks now in making an order for a new 1100, my last decision is to buy an ATC or not to buy an ATC.

I have decided on the full enclosure to keep the chips and coolant in, and have been reading threads about the ATC. I will not be doing production type work, more prototypes and one off's. That said, I would love the ability to run a job and be doing other things. I can afford it if I want it, but I am slightly concerned about the reliability from the posts. Also, can the tool setter be integrated into the ATC macros so that every time you do a tool change you automatically get the tool height?

Any opinions one way or another would be helpful, this is the last holdup on my order.

One thing I would like to add, since I will be buying the enclosure with the mill, I feel like its now or never for the ATC. Once I get the enclosure on, I really don't plan on taking it off to put an ATC on, so that is why I am struggling so much. If not for the enclosure, I would just say I will hold off for now on the ATC and see how it is without it, but I feel some pressure for this reason.

I have a Srries II 1100 that I bought about 6 months before the ATC was introduced. I do short run machining (25 pieces or less) in my machine and have never missed I he ATC.

My business card actually says "ONE TO TEN PIECES IS OUR SPECIALTY ."

I have given the ATC some consideration, then I thought for $4200.00 I can change the tool manually a whole lot of times. And yes, I can still do other things while my machine runs. But the power drawbar is an absolute necessity.

I have had my machine since July 2011. Before that I owned a reac CNC machine shop where I had a FADAL 3016 and a Haas TM1 and I can do ANYTHING on my Tormach that I could do on those machines, it just takes a little longer.

I have since added the full enclosure and the 8 inch 4th axis with a tailstock.

The full enclosure doesn't keep ALL the chips inside, but it is about a 95% improvement.

[GLCarlson]

Enclosure is no big deal to pull unless you use marine sealant and glue everything down. Given the uncertainty you express, I'd hold off on the ATC (but get a power drawbar). In my shop -prototypes and one-offs- I don't run unattended, and see the ATC as a semi-works/small production device. I'd never walk away from the first run, even when it's been air-cut and checked in foam. And since everything is a first run...ATC just doesn't seem that useful.

[CadRhino]

I bought an atc new with my machine.
I don't want to knock it too much since I am still getting help from tormach to troubleshoot why it has not been reliable for me but my experience has been that it has taken me two steps forward and one back.

It will work great for a few weeks then all if a sudden a tool gets pushed through the holder and I have to go through an re-align everything.
I have heard that there is a fix for the slippage in the key way coming out soon which I am looking forward to.
My other issues have to do with Mach not retaining my atc position so I am getting path pilot.
Tormachs tech support has been living up to their reputation for product support so I am sure I will eventually get the issues resolved.
I am optimistic that these two upgrades will make the atc a reliable accessory I can count on.
Nathan

I have been dragging my feet for 2 weeks now in making an order for a new 1100, my last decision is to buy an ATC or not to buy an ATC.

I have decided on the full enclosure to keep the chips and coolant in, and have been reading threads about the ATC. I will not be doing production type work, more prototypes and one off's. That said, I would love the ability to run a job and be doing other things. I can afford it if I want it, but I am slightly concerned about the reliability from the posts. Also, can the tool setter be integrated into the ATC macros so that every time you do a tool change you automatically get the tool height?

Any opinions one way or another would be helpful, this is the last holdup on my order.

One thing I would like to add, since I will be buying the enclosure with the mill, I feel like its now or never for the ATC. Once I get the enclosure on, I really don't plan on taking it off to put an ATC on, so that is why I am struggling so much. If not for the enclosure, I would just say I will hold off for now on the ATC and see how it is without it, but I feel some pressure for this reason.

[mountaindew]

Some comments to think about and consider
If cost is no big consideration then I would add that to order. My thinking is you can use it when needed or run programs and change tools manually. I like more options for getting things done. If budget constrained then I would invest that in tooling and cad/cam.
I don't have a atc but would like one . I often wander off and do other things like eat, mow lawns whatever and a atc would be nice in that case. If in the shop then no big deal to walk over and pop new tool in.
A quick look at my programs "mostly prototypes" tells me I need to be present to do fixture changes most of the time. That said I do get annoyed by drill and tap tool changes because they tend to be frequent sometimes and a atc would be very nice for those parts.
Also for the few large tool operations that tend to go real fast. As mentioned above I tend to wander off mostly when doing things with small tools like 1/8 end mills they work at slower rates and take longer to complete.
Also when assembling your machine and enclosure I would plan on taking it back apart also. I just finished up a week of cleaning and adjustment and had chip pans off to access all the places required to do this.
some things to consider !

[pickled]

I'd never walk away from the first run, even when it's been air-cut and checked in foam. And since everything is a first run...ATC just doesn't seem that useful.

That is sage advise! I am typically present during my production periods (except for when I have long runs with small end-mills...that gets done while I sleep) and I just can't get behind the need for an auto tool changer yet. I am not a high quantity producer. If I make more than 30 of something that is a pretty big lot for me. Don't get me wrong the tool changer is pretty sweet, but I can't justify it from a business perspective on my side of the fence. If money isn't an issue in your equation then go for it. I am sure that you will be pleased with the performance and think of all sorts of ways to optimize your process around it.

[R.DesJardin]

I've had an ATC since they were new, which would be what 4 or 5yrs, no regrets, it runs greats and I have never had issues, remember we usually post when we have questions not when we have everything running sweet.. My machine as well as all the upgrades run sweet. Being able to have the machine run while I run other machines or do assembly is priceless and I really need to step up and buy an ATC for the #2 machine. If I wouldn't have bought Solidworks this spring I'd have it now, but hey I have Solidworks now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Soon.

[Learning2Machin]

Thanks everyone for the feedback it is very informative. I think for now I will just hold off on the ATC and go with the power drawbar and enclosure by itself. If I decide I need one in the future, I will suck it up and take the enclosure apart enough to get the ATC on.

[kstrauss]

I also do mostly prototypes and typically with only one or two of a particular part. I don't think that the ATC would significantly improve my productivity and might even slow things as philbur mentioned. The PDB would definitely help.
A few things that I don't think that others have mentioned:
I believe that the ATC requires an alteration to the 4th-axis to provide clearance
I don't think that you can use the ATC to change tools with the speeder (Tormach31350) installed
I don't think that you can use the ATC with any tapping head other than the TC head
To make best use of the ATC you'll want enough holders for all of your tooling
I use 3/4-inch shank tooling (Erickson TenthSet boring head) which can't be used with the ATC
Can you use slitting saws with the ATC?
If you're like me you will spend far more on tooling and software than originally anticipated so save some of your money for additions!

[Don Clement]

I do prototyping and limited production on my 1100 without an ATC. some of my tooling (e.g. Procunier, 8" 4th axis) I believe won't work with the ATC. The PDB however I view as essential.

Don Clement

[wildwhl]

I do prototype and small qty production on my series 3 with ATC. Love it. I've had a few minor issues with it but can't imagine living without it. Good piece of kit in my book.

WW

[CNC-Dude]

It seems like you have already decided not to go with the ATC. As everybody else has specified prior, the real tool here is the Power Draw Bar. I was without a PDB for about 2 years and I was complaining on every tool change. Why oh why!

Then I added the PDB and VOILA! It was like angels descended from the Heavens and caressed me with their golden wings while the celestial orchestra played the divine chord of awesomeness! Sounded something like AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Or was it OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH? Hard to say, it was too out of this world.

So now that I have the PDB, how many times have I felt like my life is so miserable by not having the ATC? Not even once, really! In my case, it buys nothing! Most of my parts (one off's), take about 10 minutes to fabricate. How much could I really do on those 10 minutes? On the other hand, if I had to do dozens of the same stuff, rest assured I would be screaming into the heavens. But for one?

If you too will do one off's, chances are you will not miss the ATC at all.

But hey, you also decided to go with the PDB so rest assured you will not regret that decision. The clouds are already opening up to let the angels through ;-)

[flatsix66]

I bought my machine with the full enclosure, PDB and ATC. The enclosure and PDB are essential for sure for me, the ATC is really just a luxury that only gets used when my code is proven. That said it is really cool when a program is dialed in that you can hit Cycle/Start and do other things, you learn to listen in the background to make sure everything is working right. Adding and initial setup of an ATC would be a huge PIA after the enclosure is on but probably not impossible. If you have $4k to spare and already have a dirt bike, riding mower and Rolex watch then I say get it

[Learning2Machin]

Thank you everyone for the feedback and opinions. To clear up a few things, when I said I can afford it, that doesn't mean it won't be an impact to me because it will. Spending the ~$5k on it is not something I would take lightly at all, but if I really feel I would get the utility out of it, I would spend the money on it. I think I will probably take the weekend to think about it and place my order on Monday to try to make the best decision possible. If I believed it would be as reliable as say a VMC ATC, I would probably spend the money on it. My biggest hesitation is some people have some reliability issues, not everyone, but enough have mentioned it to where it at least some concern. Even though I am doing one off's and prototype's for the most part, I still would see the value in it with an enclosure and the ability to walk away from a part.

[mak]

I've had an ATC since they were new, which would be what 4 or 5yrs, no regrets, it runs greats and I have never had issues, remember we usually post when we have questions not when we have everything running sweet.. My machine as well as all the upgrades run sweet. Being able to have the machine run while I run other machines or do assembly is priceless

Same here, runs good!!

[SomeWhatLost]

Probably save some money by ordering it now on shipping
..

[sansbury]

By the time you add up the price of the enclosure, PDB, ATC, etc., you're getting closer to a used Haas or Fadal price wise. I'm very happy with my 1100, but I feel like the coolant system and chip control wouldn't stand up great to any real unattended operation. For attended operation, it works great. I'm sure there are people for whom the ATC works but I think the PDB zone is 90% of the benefit in what normal usage will be for most.

[C*H*U*D]

Probably save some money by ordering it now on shipping
..

This is what I was thinking as well. If shipping costs are saved, and you think you really need it, then get it now and save. If shipping will be the same, I'd say wait and see how your production goes. I use my 770 for limited runs...usually in the 25-50 piece range. I try to make sure that I optimize my table so that I can run more parts at once which cuts down on tool changes, and allows me to work on other things while each tool does it's thing. I don't have the ATC or PDB so making the most of my tool changes is important. Some day I'll have the PDB, but the ATC will probably never make it onto my machine unless production really goes up.

[Paul-JB]

I placed my order for an 1100 today went with the PDB, enclosure and auto oiler but yeah - no ATC. I'm sure it would be really nice to have and easier to install without having to remove the enclosure later but $4500 is just not in my budget.