[GITRDUN]

Version 21 and anything previous was useless. Just my opinion anyways. V22 and later versions were a drastic change for the better from the previous versions. I currently use V25. I have no reason to upgrade to a newer version as v25 works fantastic for me. I will try and upload my modified post script when im at work tomorrow. You can use it as is, it will work on any version from 22 to current as far as i know. One thing ive learned when using Bobcad is save your file often when making changes or modeling a 3d object. The software is buggy and crashes often, been that way with every version ive ever owned. They spend to much time trying to make a new version to sell instead of fixing the little quirks on the current version. This is low cost software, you get what you pay for. But you dont need $20,000 software in this day and age for machining complex geometry. This isnt rocket science.

[mtlhe]

I started w/ V22( they had so many problems they quickly created V23), of coarse they charged me full boat to upgrade to 23. Nothing but continuing problems so they fixed some and branded it V24 which I got. Had to pay the $500.00 per year maintenance fees and spend my time on forums getting answers, and evenings watching training videos that I bought. Saw OneCNC mentioned on a Bobcad forum where several guys had switched and were happy. Called Patrick at OneCNC West, he sent me a trial version. It was just so simple and easy to use and was seriously drawing and caming parts day one. No extra fees, fee tech support(if purchased through Patrick at OneCNC West). No more issues. This is only advise and my experiences that I offer to help. I have heard of people using it successfully but I've never heard anyone brag about it. Here's one piece of advice I offer if your going to try and use it, find a build version and stick with it. DO NOT download their newest version. Build versions happen when they fix known issues, they offer a newer build version. With Bobcad, other things that used to work have problems? Example: I had part programs that I strived to get all the bugs out of. I knew I could run these without issues on reoccurring parts. If I downloaded a newer build when they came out, I what go to run a previous program and break tools/crash/ruin parts??!! Pull my hair out, call Bobcad, hours of investigating to find out the new build had a bug that corrupted ANY previous builds? Ultimately users found a earlier build and reloaded it and dealt with the known issues.Bobcads answer, fix what they could, then rebrand it under a NEW VERSION. Salesman would aggressively call and sell you yet another version promising this was the bomb. Waste of alot of money and expensive ruined parts and expensive carbide tooling. All said and done I would have been money and time ahead just purchasing quality software for professional machinists. Enough said as I could go on for pages on all the issues.
BTW- that VF will be a great machine. Your father is lucky to have a industious son to lead his company into the future.

[mtlhe]

Good points GITRDUN. Your also right about $20,000 software.

Gitrdun- Thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you commenting on your experience with Bobcad. An update on the machine. We sent out the 10% down today and the machine will be ready to put on the truck 30 days from now. This machine is loaded! Would cost over $110k to buy this VF3 today. In regards to Bobcad, I'm going to use it at first since the investment was already made, even though I initially bought it for my home CNC router. In regards to the shop, most everything will be 2 axis milling ( pockets, profiling, drilling, taps ). We need to get at those items before we even think of moving on to 3 & 4 axis milling.

Can you guys (Gitrdun & mtlhe) please tell me what is the latest version you've worked with for Bobcad. Mtlhe- you must of been working with a really old version. Predator was included with v24 I know for sure since that was the first version I had. I have v27 now. I really want to get honest opinions from people that have v26 or v27. I watched a video on v21 and I could see why people had the negativity they did back then.

[victorofga]

well... it sounds a little expensive learning tool..
you can buy it... however think, to crashing an old and cheap machine takes same effort.. however the fix is not..

from machine shop to go over a router that simple.. from router to machineshop not so simple..

if I were you, I would spend some time in daddys shop beside someone already can run effectively a machining center..

[GITRDUN]

Heres a usable Bobcad post script for Haas Mills i modified. It gets rid of all the junk codes not needed in the Haas program and is safe to simply post and use, at least for me. On all drill cycles i modified it to output only a G73 canned cycle using Q K R F. If you dont want to peck just change that line in your program or whatever works for you. Also it will output the Predator simulation codes in the program header so all you need to do is run the post processor from BC, open it up in Predator, then push the backplot tab in Predator and watch it run the simulation if you want to verify it.

I had to add a .txt extension to the name of the file to get CNC Z to upload it. So you might have to remove that for Bobcad to recognize it, dont know. Just download it into the folder where the rest of your BC post scripts are stored.

[Machineit]

Heres a usable Bobcad post script for Haas Mills i modified. It gets rid of all the junk codes not needed in the Haas program and is safe to simply post and use, at least for me. On all drill cycles i modified it to output only a G73 canned cycle using Q K R F. If you dont want to peck just change that line in your program or whatever works for you. Also it will output the Predator simulation codes in the program header so all you need to do is run the post processor from BC, open it up in Predator, then push the backplot tab in Predator and watch it run the simulation if you want to verify it.

I had to add a .txt extension to the name of the file to get CNC Z to upload it. So you might have to remove that for Bobcad to recognize it, dont know. Just download it into the folder where the rest of your BC post scripts are stored.

I had a BobCad program open and thought I would try your post. It locked up Predator when I tried to run it, every time. Had to use task manager to close the Predator. Maybe a little to many things removed?

Also it added diameter offsets for the tools?

(MTOOL T1 S4 D.116 C0. A118. H5. DIAM_OFFSET1 =.058)
(MTOOL T4 S1 D.078 C0. A0. H5. DIAM_OFFSET4 =.039)

I'm back to my slightly modified post.

Mike

Maybe because I'm running V-23?

M

[Machineit]

As far as software, you do get what you pay for. But, for the price, BobCad has always been a good deal for me.

The biggest thing with CAD software is the learning curve. Almost all issues I have seen with me and others on the web, have been just not knowing how to run it properly. There are just too many things to learn quickly and because it is complicated it is not intuitive. It's the same way with my video editing software, Abobe Premiere is fantastic, but the learning curve is very high and again nothing is intuitive, just too many fine details. Getting ready to teach someone else soon who is struggling with it.

I have considered upgrading to V27 with BobCad, but V23 is fine for what I do now.

Mike

[GITRDUN]

Ya i ran it through on my v23 and got a bunch of whacky stuff also. The program generated is garbage and the tool specs in the header arent right. Aparently ive tweaked it a few times since using it on v23, that was long time ago.

[jrmach]

Congrats on the VF3 find. As far as hobby use, there's a reason why Bobcad is so inexpensive. Our purchase of BC was the worst decision we have ever made in business. I wouldn't even know where to begin to explain. There's also a reason they have the longest most active user forums all over the web. I can laugh about now, but it was a bad choice. Once we switched, the difference was night and day. Best of luck with your new mill.

Yawn,,,,
For the money you cannot beat BoBCAD.
If you say BoB is Crap for the last 2 Versions,,,V26 and V27,,,,Then YOU are not learning it right.
If you can back up what your preaching,,,give me your best examples of BoB being terrible,,,,,give me anything and see if there is any Merit to what you say.I been using a long time and I bet I can prove you wrong on so many levels.

[jrmach]

As far as software, you do get what you pay for. But, for the price, BobCad has always been a good deal for me.

The biggest thing with CAD software is the learning curve. Almost all issues I have seen with me and others on the web, have been just not knowing how to run it properly. There are just too many things to learn quickly and because it is complicated it is not intuitive. It's the same way with my video editing software, Abobe Premiere is fantastic, but the learning curve is very high and again nothing is intuitive, just too many fine details. Getting ready to teach someone else soon who is struggling with it.

I have considered upgrading to V27 with BobCad, but V23 is fine for what I do now.

Mike

Mike,I have V26 and it is great.But I have the V27 Demo and WoW,,,anybody knocking the latest from BoB either has an agenda or is just not learning it right.
BTW,,I use V23 all the time to.High Speed Pocketing from Volume Mill is awesome.

[jrmach]

Gitrdun- Thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you commenting on your experience with Bobcad. An update on the machine. We sent out the 10% down today and the machine will be ready to put on the truck 30 days from now. This machine is loaded! Would cost over $110k to buy this VF3 today. In regards to Bobcad, I'm going to use it at first since the investment was already made, even though I initially bought it for my home CNC router. In regards to the shop, most everything will be 2 axis milling ( pockets, profiling, drilling, taps ). We need to get at those items before we even think of moving on to 3 & 4 axis milling.

Can you guys (Gitrdun & mtlhe) please tell me what is the latest version you've worked with for Bobcad. Mtlhe- you must of been working with a really old version. Predator was included with v24 I know for sure since that was the first version I had. I have v27 now. I really want to get honest opinions from people that have v26 or v27. I watched a video on v21 and I could see why people had the negativity they did back then.

You have any questions on BoBCAD,,just go to the most used forum in the whole world (ha,ha) and it would be my pleasure to help you and also I can hook you up with lots of links to learn from.
I have V23,V25,V26 JSYK

[jrmach]

Version 21 and anything previous was useless. Just my opinion anyways. V22 and later versions were a drastic change for the better from the previous versions. I currently use V25. I have no reason to upgrade to a newer version as v25 works fantastic for me. I will try and upload my modified post script when im at work tomorrow. You can use it as is, it will work on any version from 22 to current as far as i know. One thing ive learned when using Bobcad is save your file often when making changes or modeling a 3d object. The software is buggy and crashes often, been that way with every version ive ever owned. They spend to much time trying to make a new version to sell instead of fixing the little quirks on the current version. This is low cost software, you get what you pay for. But you dont need $20,000 software in this day and age for machining complex geometry. This isnt rocket science.

V27 is so much better than V25,,,but I am with you,,,V25 is highly capable too.

[Rotax91]

Yawn,,,,
For the money you cannot beat BoBCAD.
If you say BoB is Crap for the last 2 Versions,,,V26 and V27,,,,Then YOU are not learning it right.
If you can back up what your preaching,,,give me your best examples of BoB being terrible,,,,,give me anything and see if there is any Merit to what you say.I been using a long time and I bet I can prove you wrong on so many levels.

Great post jrmach!

Exactly. I went straight from v24 to v27. I'd be willing to bet that most of the negatively is from people whose only experience with BC is with really old versions, especially pre- v24. I'd also be willing to bet that many negative comments also come from people that have NO experience with BC. They are just falsely judging it because of other negative comments. I have no school background with CAD design but with the BobCad videos, youtube tutorials and this forum, I find BC to be quite adaptive. I actually really like the interface. I don't want to mention any product names but with researching 2 really high dollar CAD/CAM packages on the market, I find one to be really complicated looking and the other seems weak in the CAD area. I wish people would really reintroduce themselves to the latest version.

[jrmach]

BoBCAD is using a lot of the same tool paths as high end software.
BoB'S Simulation is almost as good as anyone would ever need.Again,,the same as many high end companies are using.
Only reason I don't have V27 is V26 is just fine,,,BUT,,I will get V28 you can bet on it.
I have used V27 Demo a lot though.And it is awesome.
BoB , for the money,is in a class all by itself.Not only that,we have Al,and that is as good as anyone could ever expect.And in the Forums we have member Burr,who is a Guru with I think any CAD out there,but also owns BOBCAD.

I have heard great things about One CNC,so I am not knocking it in any way.But it also is not in the same $$$$$ category either.

And in case anybody wants to know I have a Haas VF-2 along with a whole room full of manual machines.I am a one man show and do mostly onsy, twosy,,work.BoB just makes sense for me economically.Master Cam it is not,,,But it does everything I ever have needed.

[mtlhe]

jrmach- I must have struck a nerve. Bobcad is cheap software. All I'm saying is it is not on the same level as Mastercam,OneCNC,Gibbs, or the others. There is loads of free software out there that is in the same playing field as BC that you don't have to pay as much for and they have forums to answer questions just like BC. I have used these others and BC IS NOT in the same league,whatsoever. But it is next to nothing in costs. But you will pay for the small entry level price with issues. Again, just see how many threads on its use are posted everyday, all over the net. In all my travels and companies I've ever seen, I don't now ANY that use BC. I don't know about the newer versions and never will as there is no reason to play with it.
True most other software is alot more money, substantial infact. Yet, the manufacturing world pays for it. Why? Because neither they or me can afford to pay programmers to post questions on forums regarding its use. Nor do we enjoy blowing up parts and expensive setups and tooling because of that garbage you're in love with. I frequent forums for the pleasure of it, not because my company depends on finding answers to our cad/cam package. Most controllers have conversational programming that's more reliable than the versions of BC we bought. You might want to get your hands on some high end software some time. You act as if I insulted your honor. BC is like comparing a Chinese lathe to a Hardinge. Not in the same playing field. I know, I had it. I also use Hardinge lathes in our manual side, not Chinese. And if you've only used chinese lathes, you'll never know the difference of the quality parts a Hardinge will do. If you don;t know who or what a Hardinge is, I just can't help anymore. What, maybe this will be better, try comparing a garden tractor to a full sized backhoe! Clearer? No? I'm just kidding, I hope your laughing and not burning with anger.

[jrmach]

. I don't know about the newer


There is all you needed to say.Anything else is an un-educated opinion.

I would not even try starting a " If you don't know who or what a Hardinge is, I just can't help anymore" a battle or a questioning of smarts here.I can assure you I know my trade real well.

Fact is you are talking about something that is years ago and I about the present.I can assure you BoBCAD is a very capable software and there is nothing even close to it in its price range.

[Rotax91]

On the sidelines here, I'd like to see someone take a part and do it in BC and in Mastercam on the same machine to see the differences. What specifically makes it so bad in your opinion I ask? Can I expect the head to come smashing into the part at 1100ipm when instead it was suppose to do a tool change? I can't speak for any 4th & 5th axis machining but I just don't buy that 15k software generates a completely different instructional set of code, .... up to 3 axis anyways. With every version, there are always improvements. The part in the video below was made using Bobcad v25. This is far more complicated than any part we will machine for a long time. Please tell me what MC, Gibbs or OneCNC would do different while machining the same part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQKimv9QH0

[Machineit]

Some of the differences between software's is the level you purchase. You will see BobCad, for example, being sold on eBay and the guy says it has all of the features. He reads it off of the CD's. What people don't often understand is that you buy what you want from level 1 of one or two pieces, like Mill and lathe, and that is all you have. You may have the disk, but you don't have the license to most of it. I believe there are about 5 levels to many of them. There are a lot of differences between the levels. Many of the features that make it work much better are in the higher levels. You get what you pay for!

The part machined above, while is comes out very nice, was machined on an open machine with very slow spindle speed and slow feeds. Still comes out nice, but could be done much faster using BobCad too.

Mike

[SBC Cycle]

jrmach- I must have struck a nerve. Bobcad is cheap software. All I'm saying is it is not on the same level as Mastercam,OneCNC,Gibbs, or the others. There is loads of free software out there that is in the same playing field as BC that you don't have to pay as much for and they have forums to answer questions just like BC. I have used these others and BC IS NOT in the same league,whatsoever. But it is next to nothing in costs. But you will pay for the small entry level price with issues. Again, just see how many threads on its use are posted everyday, all over the net. In all my travels and companies I've ever seen, I don't now ANY that use BC. I don't know about the newer versions and never will as there is no reason to play with it.
True most other software is alot more money, substantial infact. Yet, the manufacturing world pays for it. Why? Because neither they or me can afford to pay programmers to post questions on forums regarding its use. Nor do we enjoy blowing up parts and expensive setups and tooling because of that garbage you're in love with. I frequent forums for the pleasure of it, not because my company depends on finding answers to our cad/cam package. Most controllers have conversational programming that's more reliable than the versions of BC we bought. You might want to get your hands on some high end software some time. You act as if I insulted your honor. BC is like comparing a Chinese lathe to a Hardinge. Not in the same playing field. I know, I had it. I also use Hardinge lathes in our manual side, not Chinese. And if you've only used chinese lathes, you'll never know the difference of the quality parts a Hardinge will do. If you don;t know who or what a Hardinge is, I just can't help anymore. What, maybe this will be better, try comparing a garden tractor to a full sized backhoe! Clearer? No? I'm just kidding, I hope your laughing and not burning with anger.

Your travels must be narrow in their scope. Most of my customers have their own machine shop. Just about all of them are running Mastercam, one is using Gibbs. There is nothing they can do with their 4 axis mills that I can't with BobCAD V26, and I'm pretty quick with it too. I'm also driving 8 VMCs (including some Haas machines) with it.

Have I had software induced crashes? Sure. Did they happen because I was in a hurry and not following my workflow of verifying my toolpaths? Just about every time. It's definitely frustrating and I'm having my own issues as I'm finally getting around to learning the lathe side. But before I drive myself bonkers I shoot on over to the forums to see if it's operator error or BobCAD error. I'm still not sure it's just me that hasn't figured out how to use the software properly. I'd say that's par for the course when you're busy and confronted with new software.

I noticed that you've been in the CNC world for about 6 years give or take. Perhaps it was your inexperience at the time that made BobCAD so rough for you. I just made a nice looking part that I first programmed in 2009. I can't remember what version of BCC I was using at the time but I was about 3 years into CAM then. I had a lot of issues and a lot of questions - I worked through them all. You probably could have too if you would have stuck with it. But no matter, you've moved on. Sorta. Unless you've tried a newer version your opinions are pretty well dated.

[SBC Cycle]

On the sidelines here, I'd like to see someone take a part and do it in BC and in Mastercam on the same machine to see the differences. What specifically makes it so bad in your opinion I ask? Can I expect the head to come smashing into the part at 1100ipm when instead it was suppose to do a tool change? I can't speak for any 4th & 5th axis machining but I just don't buy that 15k software generates a completely different instructional set of code, .... up to 3 axis anyways. With every version, there are always improvements. The part in the video below was made using Bobcad v25. This is far more complicated than any part we will machine for a long time. Please tell me what MC, Gibbs or OneCNC would do different while machining the same part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSQKimv9QH0

Nice looking part! You are really going to love your new (to you) Haas. We had 4 Fadals before purchasing our first two Haas mills used. They were so nice we bought two brand new ones the following year and plan to add two more before the end of the year. Pro TIP - If this part here is representative of what you will be running on the Haas consider purchasing the HSM package. The Haas will stutter at higher feed rates if you are a fan of high RPM, light cut, high feed milling. HSM improved cycle times and tooling life without changing anything else. Make some money, but add it it to your machine as soon as possible if it doesn't already have it.