[J S Machine]

-I've added a video of the spindle noise, please check it out.

I was swapping out collets in a an ER32 collet holder yesterday when I noticed this. I know there is likely some variation and "not so perfectness" in these things that grinding can fix most of, but this is a little extreme if you ask me. This is picture is looking directly into the nut.



What would you do? I thought about contacting Tormach about it, but I am not sure if they are all this bad.

I have a ridiculous vibration at high spindle speed, and I'm sure this might be contributing to it.

[redbaron88]

Collet holders are supposed to be like that. This allows you to insert and remove the collet by sliding it in and out on an angle.

[J S Machine]

I was under the impression that the collet snaps into the nut by being compressed (like all the sections move toward the center, thus creating a smaller diameter to then clear the recess in the nut). I didn't know this ofset was required. I'd compare it to another, but this is the only one I have.

[mactec54]

J S Machine

May be also you have been using it incorrectly also, the Collet must slide into the eccentric, this is what makes the collet seat correctly, & when undone it removes the collet from the body, the collet should lock into the nut before you put it into the body of the holder

[J S Machine]

I do lock the collet in before mating the nut to the holder. This isn't my first rodeo with these type holders. I've had a extensive use with bigger ones found in big VMCs. This is my first use of the TTS stuff.

[popspipes]

Is this just specific to this holder? Do others work correctly without vibration?

My machine when new vibrated quite a bit at max rpm.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

When in doubt, Google:

https://www.damencnc.com/images/prod...etMounting.JPG

Regards,
Ray L.

[jcposada]

Looks normal to me. Is the vibration present with other tools? What kind of belt do you have?

[J S Machine]

Is this just specific to this holder? Do others work correctly without vibration?

My machine when new vibrated quite a bit at max rpm.

I don't have another ER holder to compare it to. I do have a few set screw holders but I have not run them enough to be able to tell. -No kidding..How long did it take before it smoothed out?

When in doubt, Google:

https://www.damencnc.com/images/prod...etMounting.JPG

Regards,
Ray L.

How bout that. I never doubted the explanation of the first poster, I've just never heard of or seen it. I have never really looked into it. I only looked in there because I was cleaning and reoiling. I wonder how in the world the balance it to make it not affect runout.

Looks normal to me. Is the vibration present with other tools? What kind of belt do you have?

Will check with other tools. I have not had the spindle over about 3K RPM. The spindle is a lot louder than I expected it to be. To be honest, I have kind of been afraid to crank it on up to max because it sounds pretty rough at the RPMs I've had it up to. It has the belt that came on the machine from the factory, whatever that is.

I have not yet swapped the belt to get to the higher RPMs. It is so loud, I almost want to grab earplugs because the noise is somewhat of a nuisance. it ran at 3K yesterday for about three hours, and I finally just went in the house while it ran because I didn't really want to listen to it. lol

[popspipes]

[QUOTE=J S Machine;1680618]I don't have another ER holder to compare it to. I do have a few set screw holders but I have not run them enough to be able to tell. -No kidding..How long did it take before it smoothed out?

It didnt, I changed to a fenner belt, it quiets down after some use. I balanced the motor fan, and the power drawbar nut, that will get you in the ballpark.

I can carry on a conversation now without raising my voice with the spindle running at max, the fenner whines a lot if its too tight, after some use it quiets down more.

An indicator is that you shouldnt have any appreciable sheetmetal vibration.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The spindle is a lot louder than I expected it to be. To be honest, I have kind of been afraid to crank it on up to max because it sounds pretty rough at the RPMs I've had it up to. It has the belt that came on the machine from the factory, whatever that is.

You clearly have a problem with your spindle - perhaps bad bearings? It should be very smooth, and pretty quiet, especially at high RPM - there should be a whiny/whirry sound due to the PMW in the VFD, but it should be smooth, and not at all objectionable.

Regards,
Ray L.

[J S Machine]

[QUOTE=popspipes;1680622]

I don't have another ER holder to compare it to. I do have a few set screw holders but I have not run them enough to be able to tell. -No kidding..How long did it take before it smoothed out?

It didnt, I changed to a fenner belt, it quiets down after some use. I balanced the motor fan, and the power drawbar nut, that will get you in the ballpark.

I can carry on a conversation now without raising my voice with the spindle running at max, the fenner whines a lot if its too tight, after some use it quiets down more.

An indicator is that you shouldn't have any appreciable sheetmetal vibration.

I will look into this tonight. I didn't notice sheet metal vibration, but I wasn't looking for it either. Is the belt swap something that is common? I could probably do the balancing for the motor fan and the draw bar. Is it just the draw bar itself that needs it or the sleeve that it is in as well?

Your explanation of the noise is closer than mine was. Having to raise your voice to carry on a conversation hits the nail on the head.

[wtopace]

You clearly have a problem with your spindle - perhaps bad bearings? It should be very smooth, and pretty quiet, especially at high RPM - there should be a whiny/whirry sound due to the PMW in the VFD, but it should be smooth, and not at all objectionable.

Regards,
Ray L.

Definitely too loud! My machine at 5100 RPM is still much much quieter than my Enco RF45 machine at 1700 RPM (of course it's gear drive vs belt drive, so apples and oranges). At 3000 RPM on my PCNC1100 the machine is quiet enough for me to still hear the steppers.

[mactec54]

I do lock the collet in before mating the nut to the holder. This isn't my first rodeo with these type holders. I've had a extensive use with bigger ones found in big VMCs. This is my first use of the TTS stuff.

There is no difference from what you were using with your VMC ER collet holder, than the nut that you have, the nuts are almost all the same & interchangeable, within there collet size holders, you can get better nuts that have the eccentric part, as a separate part, called a Bearing ER Nut, some have a hardened steel insert, it's held in place with a wire circlip, the best ones have a eccentric bearing, Just some of what are available that work better than a standard ER Nut

[bevinp]

When in doubt, Google:

https://www.damencnc.com/images/prod...etMounting.JPG

Regards,
Ray L.

Hail Google... Oh Mighty One

[Beezle]

For what it's worth, I use the balanced nuts Tormach sells for ER20 holders and they do seem to make a difference vibration wise.

I don't see that they sell the same for ER32.

[J S Machine]

Here is a video of the spindle noise. This may be perfectly normal, but I am not sure. Please let me know what you think.

View My Video

[mactec54]

Here is a video of the spindle noise. This may be perfectly normal, but I am not sure. Please let me know what you think.

View My Video

That sounds like the Bearings in the spindle have grit/dirt in them, take the belt off & just run the motor, if this is quiet, then you will know what part may be making the noise,( May be ) with it running also hold your hand on any sheet metal covers, they to could make this kind of noise also, send the video to Tormach

[J S Machine]

so it definitely does not sound normal?

[Superman]

I don't have another ER holder to compare it to. I do have a few set screw holders but I have not run them enough to be able to tell.

To see if the nut is causing vibration, run the holder without the nut. They should not be your problem
- collet chucks are normally rated to G6.3, so they shouldn't need balancing unless above 12,000 RPM, the smaller this number the higher RPM....but also more $$$
- Shrinkfits holders, hydraulic type chucks etc are more suited to the high RPM range, but again - more $$$
- sidelocks ( can create a buzz from the air passing the hex hole, they should not protrude outside the body, but best to keep the larger ones ( 1/2" & larger ) below 4,000 RPM. These are the ones that will be out of balance,

Your video seems to running very noisy, as if there is no lub to the bearings
- how does it feel if you rotate the spindle by hand ? do the bearing feel "gritty"

- I have run a belt drive machine, & do get a little "belt hum" when at 8000 RPM. But that noise is not normal from a new machine