[kstrauss]

Can anybody explain exactly why changing tools is a pain? I just don't see the need for a power draw bar if I am not running the machine in a way where I need to be changing tools constantly. I have a little seig SX2 mini mill, and it has a manual tool change draw bar. I have never felt ill about having to change a tool. Of course I don't have a choice, but still..not an issue to me.

Now that you say the 770 ispretty capabale, I guess it is worth considering. One thing I do not have is 240 power, so I will have to run a line for that. With 120, I would not have to. So the 770 has faster travel speed?

A PDB is only a convenience and not a necessity; I don't have one. One downside is that it is harder to change the belt with a PDB installed.

The max travel speeds on the 1100 are 110 IPM (X,Y) and 90 IPM (Z). For the 770 they are 135 IPM (X,Y) and 110 IPM (Z).

[sansbury]

I'd get a new control from Tormach if the machine isn't sold with one. It's one of the areas that can cause major headaches if you have problems. Or run linuxcnc homebrew if you insist, it's been flawless for me. There's a reason tormach switched.

I bought the flood setup but haven't used it as it makes such a mess and now use a fogbuster which I love.

The PDB is on my list but I've lived without it for two years almost. All the accessories are nice if you can buy them used but otherwise I'd add them on an as neede basis.

Do but the stand unless you're retired and need something to keep you busy. A good stand is a very long project.

Toolholders: you will always want more than you have. I'm at 15-20, could use four or five more probably.

[popspipes]

Can anybody explain exactly why changing tools is a pain? I just don't see the need for a power draw bar if I am not running the machine in a way where I need to be changing tools constantly. I have a little seig SX2 mini mill, and it has a manual tool change draw bar. I have never felt ill about having to change a tool. Of course I don't have a choice, but still..not an issue to me.

Now that you say the 770 ispretty capabale, I guess it is worth considering. One thing I do not have is 240 power, so I will have to run a line for that. With 120, I would not have to. So the 770 has faster travel speed?

Maybe I should rephrase that a bit, at 75, it is a pain in the shoulders hands etc, everything hurts these days ha!
It is a big timesaver for me, I sometimes use 10 tools on a 30 minute part.

[pickled]

+1 on the controller and the fogbuster. Toolholders are luxurious :-). I have about 50 various set-screw and ER holders coupled with some saw arbors, drill chucks and indicators. Being able to just set it and forget it is very nice! FYI-I only break out the flood when I'm cutting deep pockets or drilling deep holes. The Tormach stand works well for my 1100, but I made my own for my 770 mill. I had some time and do quite a bit of fabrication so it was no big deal. You will NEVER have a perfect enclosure. After months of planning you will always think of something else that you want to add or have better access to. I am very glad that I went with the clear welding curtain route for keeping chips at bay. If I feel like re-arranging it it really is no big deal. I didn't spend weeks engineering it and being concerned about fastener loads, powder coating and sheet metal spring back either. To each their own, but just do whatever YOU need to do to make you happy and get the job done. Oh and as far as used machines go you absolutely want to look at the backlash, but the other thing to check is the Z ways. Earlier machines (like mine) had issues with oil distribution to all things Z. When I saw that mine was dry after pulling and pulling the handle for the lube pump I tore the system apart and found metal shavings in the manifold and lines heading to all parts Z. In the absence of the finger test I don't know how long this would have went before bad things happen.

[mountaindew]

I am a new machine tool user and lacked all the accessory tools required like height gauges, indicators, calipers, micrometers, vise parallels, 123 blocks and a long list of other tools that are required to get results from my mill.
Also I didn't see anyone mention cad or cam software! . Imho this is very important and hard to use all the mill system technology your paying for without it.
What I mentioned above has added a fair amount of cost to getting started and good results. That said they are great machines limited only by your skills and imagination.

[J S Machine]

I see that the flood coolant system is another $500+. What is this fogbuster system you guys are talking about?

[kstrauss]

I see that the flood coolant system is another $500+. What is this fogbuster system you guys are talking about?

See 32682 - Fog Buster Spray Coolant Kit
Alternatively, do as I did and lookup the patent and build your own for considerably less money.

[J S Machine]

Another quick question for you all. I am in the process of putting together a wish list to go ahead and get a quote. I have added an ER collet holder and set, as well as several set scew holders. All of the tools have the TTS system. I guess that stands for Tormach Tooling Systems? Do these tools fit in the regular R8 style spindle I was thiking this machine had or are they something different?

[CNC-Dude]

Another quick question for you all. I am in the process of putting together a wish list to go ahead and get a quote. I have added an ER collet holder and set, as well as several set scew holders. All of the tools have the TTS system. I guess that stands for Tormach Tooling Systems? Do these tools fit in the regular R8 style spindle I was thiking this machine had or are they something different?

The machine will come with an R8 collet which will accept the TTS tool holder shank. When you unscrew the drawbar, the R8 collet opens up and the TTS tool holder releases. You only need one R8 collet for all TTS holders regardless. You could change R8 collets and tooling like any conventional mill, but once you start to appreciate the TTS tooling, R8 will become a thing of the past. I still have a little museum drawer with my old R8 antiquities...

[pickled]

Yeah TTS is pretty awesome! The only time I use an R8 is when I'm doing vertical lathe work, or when I'm trying to use a 5/8" or larger end mill and I want to squeak every last bit of rigidity out of the machine. Now seeing as it sounds like you might have some R8 tooling laying around you can put TTS adapters on them to help make them more repeat Z-height friendly. I did that with some of my face mills and was surprised how well the little epoxied discs held up over time.

[kstrauss]

Now seeing as it sounds like you might have some R8 tooling laying around you can put TTS adapters on them to help make them more repeat Z-height friendly. I did that with some of my face mills and was surprised how well the little epoxied discs held up over time.

Unless I've missed something the TTS adapters don't go onto R8 stuff but onto standard cutters and such with a 3/4-inch shank.

On a related note I have made 3/4-inch adapters to let me easily grip my DTI, Blake, etc in the 3/4-inch collet that is always in the mill. The adapters don't take long to make since accuracy is mostly irrelevant but they save a lot of time and I avoid having to buy costly TTS stuff.

[philbur]

Yeah TTS is pretty awesome! The only time I use an R8 is when I'm doing vertical lathe work, or when I'm trying to use a 5/8" or larger end mill and I want to squeak every last bit of rigidity out of the machine. Now seeing as it sounds like you might have some R8 tooling laying around you can put TTS adapters on them to help make them more repeat Z-height friendly. I did that with some of my face mills and was surprised how well the little epoxied discs held up over time.

This will not work. The R8 taper must be pulled in to fully seat in the spindle. The TTS adapter will either prevent this or alternatively not seat fully on the spindle. In any case an R8 is reasonably repeatable with regard to Z height.

Phil

[pickled]

Sorry for the confusion guys. I was typing faster than my head was working after a long week. Yeah I meant any 3/4" tooling that you used in your R8 set up. I had a few things that I converted via the cheap little epoxy disc a few years ago and they are still hanging in there.

[dbruins]

There is nothing special about the machine. I have been using my PCNC1100 with my own PC for the past 4 years without a single hiccup (except one time when I didn't reboot the machine for over a week and all hell broke lose. Most likely Windows XP's fault). Do note that Tormach won't be able to help you with questions because they can't verify your controller. But I doubt you will have any issues.

Tormach has a Service Bulletin SB0012_Control_Computers.pdf that's quite helpful.

It's pretty short, so here's the whole thing ...


File name: SB0012_Control_Computers.pdf
Rev: 1113A
Date: 11/18/2013
Product Identification: Computers for Controlling PCNC Mills

PLEASE NOTE!
While we continue to allow mill owners to use their own PC in order to offer the greatest possible economy, we also make a strong recommendation to use a Tormach Machine Controller. A proper computer and configuration is critical for dependable operation of your PCNC mill. Running with a computer that is not suitable is unlikely to damage your mill, but users may experience miscellaneous errors and poor cutting accuracy. Issues or problems related to a non-Tormach supplied control computer are the responsibility of the customer. The Tormach Machine Controller (TMC) can be found on our web site at Page Not Found | Tormach Inc. providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items..

Background:
Many computers can be successfully configured for the PCNC (Mach 2/3) control software, however some cannot. The issues normally involve hardware or device drivers that generate interrupts, stealing time cycles from the background process that is critical to accurate and error free motion control. Recently we have observed that changes in PC component drivers and CPU architectures supplied by major manufacturers (Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others) have created serious problems for real time control programs such as Mach3, the program that operates the PCNC mills.

General Recommendations:
The recent trends within PC component drivers and CPU designs have made it impossible for us to provide general guidelines for computer selection. Problems have been cropping up across CPU series (Celeron, Pentium, Core II, Athlon, etc) as well as manufacturer models (Dell Optiplex 330, HP Presario SR 5710, Lenovo ThinkCentre A57, etc). The issues are not related to processing power or general computer performance, nor are they explicitly related to operating system (XP vs. Vista) although we continue to have a preference for XP. Faster processors, more memory, or multiple core CPU's do not resolve these issues. Computers supporting the Energy Star certification are less likely to operate correctly. The primary test for correct operation is a diagnostic program included with the Mach3 software called DRIVERTEST.EXE.

The computer should be at least 1 GHz. A parallel printer port is required. A USB to printer port conversion will not work. Earlier Intel Celeron, Pentium, or AMD processors have worked just fine. While 256MB memory will work, we normally suggest 512MB or more. We hear reports of multiple problems with Hyper-Threading technology CPUs from Intel, but that feature can usually be disabled. Problems are more prevalent on computers manufactured after 2007.

The operating system should be Windows XP, or Vista. XP Pro offers no advantage over XP Home, but we have found that XP has fewer problems than Vista. Certain accessories can create problems. Use game controllers, wireless keyboards, and similar devices at your own risk. We also observe a higher frequency of problems with Intel CPUs that incorporate Intel Core®1 microarchitecture. We suspect that AMD CPUs that incorporate the K82 microarchitecture have similar issues.

Do not use a laptop computer. Laptop computers use hard wired interrupts as part of their power management scheme. This steals CPU time and creates critical time slice errors. The machine control program may appear to run, but motion accuracy will
1 A list of Intel processors and the architectures used can be found at List of Intel microprocessors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2 A list of AMD processors and their features can be found at Comparison of AMD processors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Specific Recommendations:
The following list has the Dell PCs that we have used in the past with success, along with some notes and comments. These models are no longer manufactured, but most can be purchased from a variety of sources such as off-lease vendors. We have no recommendations for current Dell, HP, Acer, Lenovo, Gateway, Asus, or Compaq models.
- Dimension 1100: An older model that works just fine. The BIOS is older and does not recognize USB devices, but Windows does.
- Dimension B110: This appears to be a variant of the 1100. It works just fine; we have shipped quite a few of these configured as mill controllers.
- Dimension 5150: This model works but it does not have a printer port on the motherboard so it requires a printer port card.
- Optiplex GX520: Works fine.
- Optiplex 210L: We prefer the small form factor.
- Optiplex 310: We prefer the small form factor.
- Optiplex 320: We prefer the small form factor.

[waterjetcutter]

I believe a sister company acquired a PCNC 770 straight from Tormach for about $6k. They're a small operation, but I heard they're real happy.