[SCzEngrgGroup]

I use VisualMill within SolidWorks, it's an older STD package and doesn't have highspeed path generation capability unfortunately.

my machine is a 1100 by the way.

jh

VisualMill is a gigantic turd! WORST.... CAM.... EVER!!! I owned it for two weeks last year, before demanding my money back. My conversations with them convinced me there isn't a single person in that entire company that would know a milling machine if one fell on their heads. Burn your VisualMill CD, and download HSMXpress - it's free for Solidworks users, and it will make your machine sing! I run all day long using HSMXpress toolpaths. My standard roughing cut in 6061, using a $12 HSS 2-flute, is 6000 RPM, up to 1" DOC, 0.05" WOC, at 110 IPM, and, as I said, that is at the rigidity limit of my machines. I can fill a 33 gallon garbage can with chips in a single day without breaking a sweat, with "only" 1.5HP.

Regards,
Ray L.

[mountaindew]

VisualMill is a gigantic turd! WORST.... CAM.... EVER!!! I owned it for two weeks last year, before demanding my money back. My conversations with them convinced me there isn't a single person in that entire company that would know a milling machine if one fell on their heads. Burn your VisualMill CD, and download HSMXpress - it's free Regards,
Ray L.

I read comments like this and wonder! How can someone make a full assessment of a complex product that can cost more then $5k in 2 weeks while doing all their other normal routines.
I guess I could buy one of the mills he promotes along with one of his pdb's he makes and tool changers if there is one and then decide in 2 weeks if its a turd or not.

If I had 5 cents for every time someone told me my cam software was junk it would have been free. And I must say I laugh at those comments now. Knowing that not only is the software very powerful but is very easy to use. Just had to learn it and it took more then 2 weeks. The point I am making for thread readers is be very skeptical of these opinions. Some people are somewhat skill limited when it comes to software and will not adapt or learn its methods.
md

[johnh]

He, He. Well, my machine is a first gen and I'm will to find out. It has more than made its money back over the years which is a testament to Tormach. Tormach you can quote me.

Destroy? pretty extreme guess maybe? As far as what "last" means? I highly doubt I'm going to crack a casting, keep my ways adjusted more often, most likely. Spindle bearing wear, sure, bearings are cheap and so is a backup spindle for that matter waiting for a quick swap out if needed.

The machine shop I'm in now has way more HP available in their 5 axis machines and they pretty much use 3/8 cutters for roughing SS with the latest tool paths available and they feel they get the best cost benefit ratio of cutter cost vs material removal, I've found 3/8 is a good balance also for this machine and that size isn't going to put the stress into the machine like some big rougher.
I just want to spin it higher and increase the IMP. I'll be really surprised if I can't achieve an easy "solid/high double digit increase.


It's going to be a fun project, without the HP reserve no will know what the limitations are right? until it is done it's all educated conjecture me think. There are many types of mechanical things out there that have withstood some serious excess energy throughput and my experience says this machine has some reserve to play with.
That empirical statement aside, I still want more head room to see how far I go. More fun and cheaper than plunking down 10k for someone else's clapped out FADAL

Last thing I want to do is go 3hp and find out I could have pushed it more after all that expense because I'm not doing it twice

I don't have a auto tool changer and I agree the TTS stuff will more than likely give up holding in the R8, and as I wrote earlier in the post, BT30 will probably be in its future. This machine had a power drawbar before it was available and that worked out great for the TTS so if I go BT30 I'll have to engineer my own new drawbar setup for that tool holder.

On the VFD, for the ease of plug and play and 1 phase in vs cost, the PolySpede is looking like a front runner for the 5hp. Anyone had any "nightmare" experiences with that brand?

jh

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Not sure what kind of MMR you're looking to get.... The stock machine, with 1.5HP, should be good for 3-4 cu. in./min, if not limited by rigidity. And I know that both my knee mill, and my Novakon (which is MUCH bigger and heavier than the 770), is limited by rigidity, not power. I find it hard to believe the 770 will be able to make good use of more power than the stock motor provides. Using smarter (i.e. - constant engagement) toolpaths goes a long way towards mitigating marginal rigidity. But with small cutters, you may be more limited by RPM than by IPM.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Hirudin]

That is another way to go, hadn't thought of it that way.

You could, but you need to make sure you set the FLA (Full Load Amps) setting to be 1/1.73 of the normal max limit of the VFD.

But take that thought one step further: just run your 5 HP motor on a 3 HP VFD with single phase input and save a little money, as it would essentially be the same thing.
...

Thanks! The single-phase, 3-HP VFD sounds like a much better way to go than a derated 5-HP. I now see that 3HP isn't what johnh is after though, unfortunately.

I'm interested to see where this project goes. I am also of the (mostly unlearned) opinion that these machines are more limited by rigidity than HP. But, since I'm wrong about these things all the time, I'm curious to see what will happen if this project actually goes anywhere.

[FuriousGeorge]

If you have something negative and off topic to say, PM it. People came here to read about adding horsepower, not filter through pages of nonsense.

[johnh]

If you have something negative and off topic to say, PM it. People came here to read about adding horsepower, not filter through pages of nonsense.

EXACTLY GENTLEMEN!

jh

[slowtwitch]

I'm in the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" crowd. Although not a Tormach, my mill is about the same size. Two years ago, I replaced the spindle motor with a 3KW (4HP), 2 pole motor. Mind you, all my work is in aluminum. The original motor was suppose to be rated at 2HP, which I really doubted. Naturally, I had folks telling me I'm nuts. I heard things about spindle dropping, bearings failing, finish quality, don't use a 2 pole motor, etc, etc, etc.

Anyway after close to 2 1/2 years, I can say that this has been one of the best things I ever did on my mill. My finishes have actually improved, my cut times have been reduced. Again, I only work with aluminum, thus the 2 pole motor worked for me. I've already run parts with 10K spindle speeds and the spindle purred like a kitten.

Here is an older video of the mill facing a piece of stock, using a 4" face mill....



The motor is a Binder 2 pole pump motor. I bought it on Ebay for $100.00. I had the rotor re-balanced at a motor rewind shop that I use to work for. I'm using a Hitachi WJ200-022SF drive with this motor. I initially had a Huanyang VFD (which worked great), but, decided on the vector drive, to basically learn how to use them

One thing I did notice, when I made my first cuts. The machine had a more solid sound when cutting. I'm sure this is due to the weight of the motor, adding some mass to the head.

Anyway, enjoy your adventure....it's stuff like this that make new ideas happen

[johnh]

I'm in the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" crowd. Although not a Tormach, my mill is about the same size. Two years ago, I replaced the spindle motor with a 3KW (4HP), 2 pole motor. Mind you, all my work is in aluminum. The original motor was suppose to be rated at 2HP, which I really doubted. Naturally, I had folks telling me I'm nuts. I heard things about spindle dropping, bearings failing, finish quality, don't use a 2 pole motor, etc, etc, etc.

Anyway after close to 2 1/2 years, I can say that this has been one of the best things I ever did on my mill. My finishes have actually improved, my cut times have been reduced. Again, I only work with aluminum, thus the 2 pole motor worked for me. I've already run parts with 10K spindle speeds and the spindle purred like a kitten.

Here is an older video of the mill facing a piece of stock, using a 4" face mill....



The motor is a Binder 2 pole pump motor. I bought it on Ebay for $100.00. I had the rotor re-balanced at a motor rewind shop that I use to work for. I'm using a Hitachi WJ200-022SF drive with this motor. I initially had a Huanyang VFD (which worked great), but, decided on the vector drive, to basically learn how to use them

One thing I did notice, when I made my first cuts. The machine had a more solid sound when cutting. I'm sure this is due to the weight of the motor, adding some mass to the head.

Anyway, enjoy your adventure....it's stuff like this that make new ideas happen

you my sir understand the project!

jh

[rowbare]

Depending on your approach and expectations this could work. I think that what you do with the extra power has a lot to do with it. If you use it to increase your MRR by increasing spindle speed and feedrate then, all other things being equal (Cutter dia, DOC, chip load, number of teeth), you will probably be quite satisfied with the performance of the machine. However if you try to increase your MRR by keeping spindle speed and feedrate the same and increasing cutter size and DOC, you will add a lot of stress and will likely not be pleased by the results.

It would be a good exercise to spend a bit of time with a good feed and speed calculator before deciding on how much HP you need (FSWizard online is good). The amount of HP you can put into a cut will also depend on the available feedrate. Assuming a Series 3 upgrade and no spindle speed limit (assume 25000 in the calculator, it will in most cases be sfm limited), at 110 ipm with a 3/8" cutter, it is hard to find a cut that makes sense on a Tormach that goes much over 3 HP.

bob

[johnh]

Depending on your approach and expectations this could work. I think that what you do with the extra power has a lot to do with it. If you use it to increase your MRR by increasing spindle speed and feedrate then, all other things being equal (Cutter dia, DOC, chip load, number of teeth), you will probably be quite satisfied with the performance of the machine. However if you try to increase your MRR by keeping spindle speed and feedrate the same and increasing cutter size and DOC, you will add a lot of stress and will likely not be pleased by the results.

It would be a good exercise to spend a bit of time with a good feed and speed calculator before deciding on how much HP you need (FSWizard online is good). The amount of HP you can put into a cut will also depend on the available feedrate. Assuming a Series 3 upgrade and no spindle speed limit (assume 25000 in the calculator, it will in most cases be sfm limited), at 110 ipm with a 3/8" cutter, it is hard to find a cut that makes sense on a Tormach that goes much over 3 HP.

bob

Exactly, here is an intelligent response. but Like it was mentioned before, nothing ventured nothing gained.

jh

[pickled]

Nice! Any chance that you could chrome the fan housing on that motor?

[EvolveES]

it's cool to see that someone besides myself has thought of this, my idea was structural concrete with a small rebar-like frame. I used to work for a cell phone reinforcement company that did monopole modifications to strengthen them for additional weight. They would increase pole rigidity with these engineered channel plates that were bolted or welded onto the outside of the pole. My idea was to use one of these channels on each side of the base, and one on each side of the column, and then fill with concrete (but granite could easily be used as well). It wouldn't be very beautiful but if it added rigidity i would be happy, most likely will never get around to it though lol. I would love to see someone fill their tormach and post results.

[philbur]

Yes but that application was designed by somebody who understood the engineering. The addition was on the out side, big, big difference. Read up second moment of area and also the difference between designing for strength and designing for rigidity.

Phil

[G59]

You tell em Ray. Lol.
I too never understood Visualmill and it's poor toolpath creation.
I'll say it again, these forums are filled with armchair engineers.

[Methylethylketo]

You tell em Ray. Lol.
I too never understood Visualmill and it's poor toolpath creation.
I'll say it again, these forums are filled with armchair engineers.

Don't forget the fanboys too. My first experience on this forum was a vicious and personal set of attacks between two guys over what machine the OP should get. The OP asked for a nice garage/hobby level machine, 'like a Bridgeport but with CNC'. Responder 1 said 'take a look at Tormach, they have some nice stuff at that pricepoint' this dude flies into the thread and calls them all ****heads for not getting a Haas. This goes back and forth for a bit before the OP comes back in and thanks responder 1 and closes the thread.

[yulolaf]

Sorry but I disagree.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Sorry but I disagree.

Disagree with what part???? We should not bother trying to be civil here?

Regards,
Ray L.

[bobeson]

Wow, I don't visit this forum often these days, but when I do, I'm often struck by the significant degree of personal animosity on display, and the never-ending brand-allegiance spats.
I think some folks here need a few more tools in their shop to improve, and to spend much less time getting personal and mean-spirited over opinions of minor significance.

FWIW, I bought a seat of VisualMill and wasn't smart enough to send it back in time to get a refund. Instead I now "own" yet another expensive but worthless bit of software that is out of maintenance, reduced to one more license key dongle in my box full of old useless key dongles. (including my SprutCAM key)
HSMxpress works great for me, and I'm going to be licensing the 3D package for short-term periods as needed, now that it's available for yearly or monthly lease. For the kind of sporadic prototyping work I do, this is perfect for my needs. I want yet another annual software maintenance fee about as much as I want another hole in my head.

[Hirudin]

With experience comes the ability to quickly spot problems. I'll take the word of someone who has actually owned a piece of software or actually installed a larger motor into a comparible mill over someone who hasn't.