[bubba198]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to AC servos; I need advise on a drive for Yaskawa SGM-02B312. I came across an assembly which is perfect for an awning project I contemplate. The only problem is that the motor is SGM-02B312 and I have never played with AC servos.

I quickly figured that I need a drive and figured how to drive the drive (lol) but here is my challenge:

The drives that appear compatible with SGM-02B312 require 200-230v AC input. All I have is the regular split phase 110V mains.

Am I looking for an impossible configuration to drive SGM-02B312 with 110v? If not would one of you gurus suggest a workable configuration for me? What drive with 110v input could be used with SGM-02B312?

I only need the simplest drive for my motor and I will control the drive using the simplest input - say analog voltage for speed control and that's it.

Thank you
~B

[mike_Kilroy]

You can do it. What is feedback device in your motor? Special or standard encoder?

[bubba198]

Thanks Mike, it is a standard sequential encoder with a standard Yaskawa connector for their Servopack drives (the ones that I can only find in 200v versions)

[mike_Kilroy]

If by 'sequential' encoder you really mean 'incremental' encoder, then good.

If by 'split phase' you mean 220v house power, then good too.

Any drive that can accept that encoder sig and 220v 1ph input AND is fully programmable for motor specs, AND has the input you require (step/dir? analog? ethernet?), AND is rated with enough current for your motor, will do the job. Some may be easier to program than others.

If your motor were an ironless rotor motor, then it may also need an output inductor, but I do not believe they built those.

Can't you find the proper drive cheap on Ebay?

As an example, here is one I supply all the time on a variety of different motor manufacturers motors that meets all those requirements listed above:

AKD Servo Drives | Kollmorgen | Ethernet Based AC Servo Drives Industrial Amplifiers Converters

[mike_Kilroy]

ok, so looked up your motor in my competative file. 2amp drive required, so go with a 3amp one. 3 in part no is 2048PPR encoder so good there. so a small AKD-B-0306 or equiv would do the job fine with proper parameterization.

[mactec54]

mike_Kilroy

Mike all Yaskawa Encoder have to match up with there drives, they have built in recognition software, & the drive knows as to what motor is attached to it, other drives can be used but is not an easy task to over ride the encoder software

[mactec54]

bubba198

You need the Yaskawa matching drive for your motor,(well this is the easiest way to do it ) you can use there 220v single phase drives, this is only a 200w motor so any of there single phase drives up to ( 04 ) 400w will work with that motor

You have 220v at you house that will work for these drives, this is a drive # that will work for you SGDA-04AP or a SGD-04AP, these can also be a 02 were the 04 is

Other than doing this Dmm has has low voltage Drives & motors that would work for you
DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER

[mike_Kilroy]

bubba198

You need the Yaskawa matching drive for your motor,(well this is the easiest way to do it ) you can use there 220v single phase drives, this is only a 200w motor so any of there single phase drives up to ( 04 ) 400w will work with that motor

You have 220v at you house that will work for these drives, this is a drive # that will work for you SGDA-04AS or a SGD-04AS, these can also be a 02 were the 04 is

Other than doing this Dmm has has low voltage Drives & motors that would work for you
DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER

Actually I believe this is wrong information.... He CAN use generic AC drives with this motor.

MY experience with the majority of SGM motors has also been they use their proprietary feedback, but the manual seems to state the type 3 feedback is standard.... I too would double check this before plopping down money on a generic drive though.

Bubba, if you don't have the manual on those motors, you should get it. pm me if you want me to email you a copy of it.

Attached is simple how-to-make-a-part-number page from it. Clearly states the encoder is NOT proprietary - that would have been the ONLY reason you would need the Y. brand drive. You have 3 not 5 or S, the proprietary feedbacks.

update: I cannot upload that page as cnczone upload feature is presently broken. but I could email you the 4mb file....

[mactec54]

Actually I believe this is wrong information.... He CAN use generic AC drives with this motor.

Unless you have actually done this, you should not say that this is wrong information, can a generic drive be used, yes it can,( I stated that in the post if you read it ) it is not an easy task for someone that has never worked in motion control, to do this, I'm quite sure you would be struggling to make one work also without knowing what to do to bypass their software

I have many of these old drive in stock, if he wants one

[mike_Kilroy]

Unless you have actually done this, you should not say that this is wrong information, can a generic drive be used, yes it can,( I stated that in the post if you read it ) it is not an easy task for someone that has never worked in motion control, to do this, I'm quite sure you would be struggling to make one work also without knowing what to do to bypass their software

I have many of these old drive in stock, if he wants one

Still say this is wrong info..... I skimmed the manual it is pretty darn clear the type 3 feedback is plain old american a,a-,b,b-,z,z- encoder feedback.

Yes, Y. liked to use their proprietary serial units but this does not appear to be one - check the manual.

I will try again to attach some pages out of it to show this in case cnczone is again working... nope, cnc still broke on attaching pix. but sec 3 of manual shows wiring and it is plain old fashion incremental encoder into 2CN connector if motor choice is 3.

Bubba can use any dam_ amp he wants according to that.

[mactec54]

mike_Kilroy

There are other Zone users that have tried to do this, with the same Yaskawa motors before, but have failed, I know of one,that had success, but he is the exception, because of the knowledge that he has on the subject, he was able to do it

Even there latest motors have the same spec encoder, but a much higher c/p/r, there is no way you will run it with any other drive, other than the Yaskawa drive that matches the motor

[janbbeck]

mike_Kilroy

There are other Zone users that have tried to do this, with the same Yaskawa motors before, but have failed, I know of one,that had success, but he is the exception, because of the knowledge that he has on the subject, he was able to do it

Even there latest motors have the same spec encoder, but a much higher c/p/r, there is no way you will run it with any other drive, other than the Yaskawa drive that matches the motor

Do you have any more information you can share about who was successful and how it was done?

In any case, can you clarify what you have mentioned before about 04 drives being good for 02 motors? In addition to some working 110v yaskawa motor/drive pairs, I have a 220V 100W sigma 5 drive without a motor. Do I understand your previous statement correctly in that this drive will be able to work with all 200V motors up to and including 100W? I ordered a 30W motor yesterday to test that theory, but it would be nice to get some more background info from somebody with knowledge on the subject. Please?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[mactec54]

Do you have any more information you can share about who was successful and how it was done?

In any case, can you clarify what you have mentioned before about 04 drives being good for 02 motors? In addition to some working 110v yaskawa motor/drive pairs, I have a 220V 100W sigma 5 drive without a motor. Do I understand your previous statement correctly in that this drive will be able to work with all 200V motors up to and including 100W? I ordered a 30W motor yesterday to test that theory, but it would be nice to get some more background info from somebody with knowledge on the subject. Please?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Have more than 25 years of experience with Yaskawa installation & use, I have moved from Yaskawa to Dmm Tec because of cost Dmm do the same job at a much lower cost DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER

A 30w motor is very small, as long as the motor is for the sigma 5 drive & is 200v rated you should be good to go, if this motor is for a different drive because of Voltage Ac or Dc plus the encoder configuration not being correct it is not going to run

It's always better to pair the motor with the drive, Yaskawa does not recommend doing it any other way, usually I have found the drives to be ok with up to 2 motor sizes lower than the Drive max motor size

The 100v AC motors will only run on the 100v AC Drives as with the 200v AC motors will only run with the 200v AC Drives, they also have the DC series that will not run on the AC series Drives, so be careful what you buy

You can find on there web site motor Drive compatibility

[janbbeck]

Have more than 25 years of experience with Yaskawa installation & use, I have moved from Yaskawa to Dmm Tec because of cost Dmm do the same job at a much lower cost DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER

A 30w motor is very small, as long as the motor is for the sigma 5 drive & is 200v rated you should be good to go, if this motor is for a different drive because of Voltage Ac or Dc plus the encoder configuration not being correct it is not going to run

It's always better to pair the motor with the drive, Yaskawa does not recommend doing it any other way, usually I have found the drives to be ok with up to 2 motor sizes lower than the Drive max motor size

The 100v AC motors will only run on the 100v AC Drives as with the 200v AC motors will only run with the 200v AC Drives, they also have the DC series that will not run on the AC series Drives, so be careful what you buy

You can find on there web site motor Drive compatibility

Thanks for the info. I suspected that the voltages would have to be compatible, and am glad to have confirmation. Can a drive run a larger motor at reduced capacity? For example, can a 200W motor run a 400W motor up to 200W? Or does it only work with using larger drives and smaller motors?

[mactec54]

Thanks for the info. I suspected that the voltages would have to be compatible, and am glad to have confirmation. Can a drive run a larger motor at reduced capacity? For example, can a 200W motor run a 400W motor up to 200W? Or does it only work with using larger drives and smaller motors?

No they will not run a larger motor then the Drive capacity, when you wire/plug the cables into the Drive it will look at the encoder, the encoder will give the drive the motor spec,the drive will not accept anything outside of what it has been programed for,there are ways to trick/program the drives, to use other motors, but this is not the correct thing to do, a big motor on a lower capacity drive is going to end with a burned out drive

Some Drives have built in safeguards for doing this, but over time this is never a good idea, to run a large motor on a small capacity Drive

Yes it only works using a larger Drive with a smaller motor, & usually only upto 2 motor sizes lower than the Drive capacity

[bubba198]

guys thanks so much for the feedback; after checking compatibility (encoder and motor amps) I found that it will work with SGDA-02BP (the B being a 110v input and the P being for position control). Both motor and pack are Sigma series and both are actually on the same manual and same power code of 02:0.27HP. Do correct me if that's wrong! Then controlling the actual Servopack via 1CN IO looks well documented and doable.

Now my challenge is that encoder cable that needs to connect to 2CN. The wiring is pretty simple but the connector is strange. Looks like a little SCSI connector with 20 pins. Part # DP9320089-1 but those are like $60 bucks on eBay. Where can one find just the connector and I can whip a cable easily?

Attachment 270514

[mactec54]

guys thanks so much for the feedback; after checking compatibility (encoder and motor amps) I found that it will work with SGDA-02BP (the B being a 110v input and the P being for position control). Both motor and pack are Sigma series and both are actually on the same manual and same power code of 02:0.27HP. Do correct me if that's wrong! Then controlling the actual Servopack via 1CN IO looks well documented and doable.

Now my challenge is that encoder cable that needs to connect to 2CN. The wiring is pretty simple but the connector is strange. Looks like a little SCSI connector with 20 pins. Part # DP9320089-1 but those are like $60 bucks on eBay. Where can one find just the connector and I can whip a cable easily?

Attachment 270514

I will see if I have any plugs, I may have some used, yes that motor Drive will work well together, I have some remote programing controls that I may part with if you have a need, photos attached, they can also be programed from your computer with the right cable & software

[bubba198]

mactec54 you are awesome! I do plan to program the servo drive using SigmaWin+ software which I already downloaded from Yaskawa's web site and the RS232 cable is very simple (I actually already have several that would just work judging by the standard pinout) so I would spare you the digital operator you so gracelessly offered but if you find a spare encoder connector I would totally appreciate it!

Thanks

[mactec54]

mactec54 you are awesome! I do plan to program the servo drive using SigmaWin+ software which I already downloaded from Yaskawa's web site and the RS232 cable is very simple (I actually already have several that would just work judging by the standard pinout) so I would spare you the digital operator you so gracelessly offered but if you find a spare encoder connector I would totally appreciate it!

Thanks

The plug you want is made by 3M the Backshell is a 10320 the inside part is a 1020, these are not cheap, the Backshell is $6 to $8, in some cases it is better to buy the premade cables, you can find them cheap sometimes on Ebay, the whole plug can cost you as much as a premade cable

Here is a link to the Backshell you need, they may have the internal parts of the plug as well, I do have one, I have to check & see if I have more, though before I let this one go

10320-52A0-008 - 3M - JUNCTION SHELL, PLASTIC, 180

I think this is the plug as well, just make sure before you buy it that this is the right plug, the Backshell is correct for sure
10120-6000EL - 3M - MINI D RIBBON, PLUG, 20, IDC/IDT | Newark element14

[newman55598]

When using the sigma win you need to build a custom cable. At least I had to to get it to communicate. I think I may have been using sigma win lite tho. Not sure of the difference. I was also using USB to serial adapter.