[coils]

I put together a cnc mill a few years ago and messed with it as I learned about this stuff, and this past year I decided to do some upgrades to the electronics.

The main things I upgraded was a motion control card and separate drivers for the stepper motors, was using a Gecko G540 all in one unit.

I've had these 495oz steppers, rated at 3 amp current & 5.1 voltage, and they seemed to work fine so I just kept them.
NEMA23 495 oz/in Stepper Motor KL23H2100-30-4BM (1/4?Dual shaft with a flat) | Automation Technology Inc

And I got the ATI's KL-4042D digital drivers, rated at 36v & up to 4.2 amps output.
KL-4042D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP Based | Automation Technology Inc


The problem I'm having is the steppers won't turn under load, they make a clicking noise like they are trying to and I can see the shaft jerking, (example) kind of like a stripped gear type of noise.
Tried setting the amps higher but that didn't work.
Then I turned the power supply up from 36.5v until the warning light came on on the driver, then turned it back until it went out, the light went out at 43v and I set it to 42v, but the steppers are still doing the same thing.

Did I get too small of a driver (voltage wise)?
Or could this be a "settings issue" I'm missing in Mach3? I did try messing with the "motor tuning" in Mach a little but it still did the same thing.

Any advise would be helpful

[Fabricator08]

Try checking your wiring. If you didnt get the right order to the new driver they will make that kind of noise.I just added bigger steppers to mine and had the same problem, Checked all wiring carefully and found one that had been wire differently, redid and everything took off. Also check setting in pins and ports in Mach 3, Check setting for full, half, step in controller and in config/motor tuning, in Mach 3. Make sure the TPI is what it is supposed to be.

[alan_3301]

you may need to set the step time and step space for that particular driver, the pulses may be too short.

[awerby]

Is this for a different machine? If not, what was the problem with your Gecko driver? What made you think that these other things were going to work better? What kind of motion control card did you get? The Gecko will handle up to 50v; these Chinese drivers top out at 36v, which will limit the speed your motors can achieve. Can you still send them back and reinstall your G540?

[coils]

Try checking your wiring.
Check setting for full, half, step in controller and in config/motor tuning in Mach 3.

Yep checked the wire several times, look right.
As for the "steps setting", the drivers are set at "default/software". I didn't know this could be changed in Mach?

you may need to set the step time and step space for that particular driver, the pulses may be too short.

I understand what you mean about the "pulses may be too short" , but other then setting the dip switches on the driver for the microsteps I don't know how else to change this, and as mentioned I have the driver set on default/software.
I know I'm a noob, but if you can explain it, please do.




Sure, had to cram a bunch of questions in like that didn't you

Is this for a different machine? - Same machine
If not, what was the problem with your Gecko driver? - None really, the G540 just seemed limited in features, wanted to try something more complicated, you know bells & whistles type of thing.
What made you think that these other things were going to work better? - More features, and the company gets good reviews on their products.
What kind of motion control card did you get? - The Mach3 MK4 that the same company sells.
The Gecko will handle up to 50v; these Chinese drivers top out at 36v, which will limit the speed your motors can achieve. - I was running 48v through this G540, and that seemed overkill for the motors, they always ran really hot, I figured 36v rating would be good enough for what I have. The strange thing with "these" drivers is they show 36v on the site but the manual shows 36v with a max of 40v, and I have then at 42v right now (the safety cut out went on at 43.5v).
Can you still send them back and reinstall your G540? - I could reinstall the G540. And I don't think he would accept them back since I powered them up unless it was for a warranty exchange, and I bought them in November.

[alan_3301]

from the manual

Attachment 263566

a) t1: ENA must be ahead of DIR by at least 5μs. Usually, ENA+ and ENA- are NC (not connected). See “Connector P1 Configurations” for more information.
b) t2: DIR must be ahead of PUL active edge by 5μs to ensure correct direction;
c) t3: Pulse width not less than 2.5μs;
d) t4: Low level width not less than 2.5μs.

what are your mach3 settings for step pulses? I'm not sure what they call it exactly.

[H500]

I agree with Awerby that the new drives are a downgrade from the 540. You will lose speed by going to 36v. If the motors are too hot, reduce the current, not the voltage.

Note that applying 42v might have permanently damaged the drivers.

[coils]

Alan, the manual shows the ENA thing is used to enable/disable the driver, and not having anything hooked up to these terminals it is enabled.
And I have no idea how to check that other stuff.

As for the Mach3 step pulse, the default was at 1 and I tried 0-5 on both the Step Pulse & Dir Pulse with the same results.



H500
That's why I titled this thread the way I did, I think I did screw up getting a 36v driver and should have spent a little more on a higher voltage model.
As for the motors running hot, that was with the G540, and there's no way I've seen to adjust the current on these, adjusting the power supply voltage is the only thing I know of. There isn't much you can do with the G540 other then change the voltage going into it, or turning the "trim" screws on the drive to "smooth out" the motors.

With the 42v thing, I didn't do that until after I messed with it for a while at 36v, and I turned it up 1v at a time. The motors do the same thing at 36v right up to 42v, there's no difference. I even tried different amp settings, 2.37A - 3.31A (motors are 3A) and it was still the same.
The only thing I didn't mess with on the drives was the switches for the microstepping, they are still set to default.

[awerby]

On the G540, you can adjust the current by adding resistors. But it's okay for steppers to run fairly hot. If it ran okay and didn't burn up or melt down, they're probably fine.

[H500]

Do the motors lock up when the power is on? In other words, they should be hard to turn by hand. Perhaps your current is set too low. The vendor's instructions are sometimes incorrect.

[coils]

Well I made up my mind that these drivers I got are too small power wise, so I think I did screw up, but I want to reply to the last two posts first.

On the G540, you can adjust the current by adding resistors. But it's okay for steppers to run fairly hot.

Oh do you mean the resisters that the manual says to use for the amp rating of the motor?
When I did the setup on the 540 I just followed the directions and used what was needed for my motors (3A), so if I wanted to put less amps to the motors I just need to figure out what resistor would work for a lower setting, like if I wanted 2.5A instead? If I'm understanding you right, good then I'm not as dumb at this as I thought and I learned something too.

As for the motors getting hot with the 540, they would get quite warm and the X would get really hot, like you couldn't hold onto it very long hot. I know these motor make heat but I'm use to "heat kills electronics", so that's way this always bothered me.

Do the motors lock up when the power is on? In other words, they should be hard to turn by hand. Perhaps your current is set too low. The vendor's instructions are sometimes incorrect.

Yes the do have resistance, now I didn't get on them hard to see how much it took to make them turn. As for the current I did try different settings, but it didn't make a difference.




OK after messing with it a little last night, I really think I bought the wrong drivers for this setup.
Here's what I messed with. In Mach "motor tuning" I kept lowering the "steps per" and after a few tries I got the motors turning to move everything, but it was set so low that it would move about 2" and the DRO would show like 5" to 6" of movement, and when I raised the "steps per" the motors stopped turning again.

And after screwing with this and getting frustrated too, I said hell with it and started looking at drivers again on the net. After a few hours of reading and comparing drivers I started searching for deals, which took a while longer. My eyes hurt after all that. LOL
I was going to get larger ones from ATI and these are priced $50-60 each for standard drivers in the 50-60v range, and $80-100 for digital drivers in the same voltage range.
But I found a set of new Gecko G210x drivers (80V-7A max) on ebay for just under 120 shipped per driver, most places wanted 135 and up + S&H on top of that. So these brand name drivers ended up only being a few bucks more then most 50-60v digital drivers from other places, I know these don't have the bells & whistles like some of the others but at least it's a brand name with a good reputation.
OH well, make a mistake and learn from it I guess.

Hopefully I'll be able to sell those 36v drivers for close to what I paid, or try to find a new project to use them on, hmm maybe a table top gantry router HaHa


Thanks for all the help, and I will come back to let you know if the new drivers work

[H500]

I think you might have misunderstood how tuning is done. There is only one correct value for the "steps per" setting. This value is determined by calculation, not by tweaking. Your machine will not be calibrated if you use the wrong number. number = tpi X steps per rev X microsteps

Start the motor tuning by using a very low acceleration. Increase the velocity setting until the motor begin to stall. Back it off about 50%. Now slowly increase the acceleration until the motor stalls. Back it off until it no longer stalls.

[coils]

I went back and read my posts, sorry I did leave out info.
And yes I kind of understand the "steps per", when I first set this up with the G540 I did the math and was fairly close, then I used that "axis calibration" thing under one of the tabs on the main Mach screen for finer tuning.
Thank you for explaining setting the Accel & Velocity too, that was something I just kept changing with the G540 until it seemed right, you know guessing. LOL

When I first got this powered up with these drivers (1/5/15) I did mess with the acceleration & velocity settings, don't remember the exact numbers but I had them so low the motor weren't even reacting, meaning no signs of movement or noise. No matter what I did either the motors just made noise but didn't turn or did nothing at all.

Then a few hours later I got the idea to experiment with the "steps per" just to see what would happen, as mentioned I got all three axis moving but as soon as I raised the number even just a few hundred the motors wouldn't turn and started making that clicking noise again.

If everything goes right with the shipping of the new drivers, they should be here on Monday and I should have enough time to hook them up too. Then I'll see if these 36v drivers were a mistake or not. Which I think they were




Here's a Mach3 question that I can't find the answer to, hopefully someone can explain it.
In the motor tuning window on the bottom near the right side, what does the "Step Pulse" & Dir Pulse" actually do? I know it has something to do with the Step & Direction electrical pulses, but I can't find an explanation for it anywhere.
I'm asking because if I don't understand how it works, I don't know if I should do anything with it or not. (And yes I did try changing these but didn't see any difference and just put them back to where they were)

[jalessi]

Coils,


I believe Gecko recommends both step and direction pulse width setting of "2"

The pulse width timing correlates with the optoisolator timing implemented by individual manufacture.
The setting may be unique to stepper drive type or brand.

Jeff...

[H500]

Low quality drives or breakout boards might need a larger step pulse width to work. If you are not sure, set it to 5 microseconds. I believe that is the maximum.

I think you have your drives configured incorrectly. You mentioned it has lots of bells and whistles. That's more stuff which can be set wrong.

Use the same Mach settings which worked for the g540. Set the drives to match the g540. There's no reason why it shouldn't work.

[coils]

Thanks for explaining that Jeff, it makes a little more sense now. : )



Well I didn't get to mess with it until last night and even with the Gecko drivers it's doing the same thing. So I'm going to say it's the motion control card, I sent an email to ATI and waiting for a reply.
H500 thanks for the suggestion but going from a G540 to a driver with dip switches seems like "bells & whistles" to me, but with the KL drives the main features is you can set the amps and setup micro stepping with dip switches. All I did was the amp setting and left the micro stepping set to default/software.

And I think it's the card because I set everything in the motor tuning to what the G540 was, and nothing moved or seemed to try to do anything, scratched my head for a little and double checked everything I could think of.
With the G540 I had the Velocity set at 45 in's per min and the Accel at 4, and I remembered the card generic setting had the Velocity at 80 so I started putting in higher numbers and when I got to 60 the steppers started responding but they where doing the same thing as before, trying to turn but making the clicking/whining noise?
On the Mach3 main screen (Program Run Alt-1) in the "Feed Rate" area it showed 80 in the "Units Min" window, so I slide the bar down a little and it still showed 80 when I tried to move an axis and once I slide the bar down about half way everything stopped again, so I hit the Reset button for this and it went back to how it was with the motors making noise but now moving.

I have no other ideas what to check or try?

[jalessi]

Coils,

Check you p.m. mail,

Jeff...

[coils]

Thanks for the offer Jeff, I replied to your pm.



And I did make some progress, but I still think this card has issues and I'm not going to deal with it anymore, but here's what happen this afternoon / early evening.

While staring at this I got the idea to lower the Accel in motor tuning as low as it would let me, I know sounds dumb, but I put it to 1 on the X and I did get it to move a little before the motor stopped and starting making that noise again. So here the weird thing I tried, I set the Accel to 0 and it defaulted to .25 (yes 1/4 of one) and the motor moved the table a few inches before it stopped again.

Then I went into that "axis calibration" thing under the "settings" tab, set up the dial indicator and started with .100" movements. After a few tweaks I can now move all three axis.
But I still can't control the speed or run it at a lower speed, it just wants to run at one speed.

Unless I can get this low speed thing figured out I can't do anything else with it, can't even "ref all home". When I hit the button it does nothing, but as soon as I try to do something else or move an axis a message comes up something like " current action in progress" and can't remember the rest, and Mach is stuck in the action and I have to restart Mach to do anything again.

So I made some progress but I'm still stuck, this is getting old real fast : )

[coils]

Well jalessi helped me a lot with this, he pm'ed me his phone number and I gave him a call on Friday the 16th, after a few hours of trying different things it was determined that the software driver for the card (that goes in the Mach plugins folder) were causing the "no low speed movement", and he found a different driver then I had.
So a big thank you goes out to him for putting that much effort & time helping me with this.

Hopefully I'll get some more time to mess with it before the weekend is over