[LeeWay]

Keep in mind, the VAST majority of MACH3 users have zero "stability" problems. So it is VERY likely that you only know it MAY be unstable for you because only a small percentage of people have (and the bad press is overblown). You will probably be one of the vast majority that it works fine for. There is no real need to concern yourself with "stability" at this point. There are a lot more likely areas that you will have problems.

Also, the mindset that MACH3 is "unstable" will distract during troubleshooting and can sidetrack you from finding a problem that is unrelated to "stability".

MACH3 is NOT "unstable" for me, and it's highly likely it will be the same for you.

You may have to try different versions of Mach 3 to get one that works as it should. I recently went through this and found a perfect version. Zero issues at all.

[HawkJET]

You may have to try different versions of Mach 3 to get one that works as it should. I recently went through this and found a perfect version. Zero issues at all.

Please share with us which version you ended up with....

Also, did you use any particular testing protocol to determine which was best?

[eman5oh]

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I was unaware of gmoccapy gui for Linux CNC. I have been a long time Mach user and have been wanting to give Linux CNC a try on a router I am building. I don't have the control hardware as of yet may try this out. It is not that I am unhappy with Mach, just I would like to give the other side a try again. Long long ago I had a working linux emc set up and ended up going to Mach because it was easier to get things like and pendent running at the time. I now have a kflop running with Mach and that controler is great and very powerful, but takes some time to get set up and running with your machine but I am very comfortable with motion control these days and do a bit of programming. Can someone that runs linux cnc tell me if anything like the Mach 3 offsets screen with the edge finder function exists? It may seem petty but it is one of the reasons I stay on Mach.

[LeeWay]

I had version 3.043.067 installed in the Pulsar and found that it would not home the machine correctly.Then I installed version 3.043.022. It homed okay, but would not run the spindle.
Then I tried 3.043.066. It does everything correctly. Apparently some have issues with that version, but I cannot find any fault with it.

[HawkJET]

Good info Lee.

I had version 3.043.067 installed in the Pulsar and found that it would not home the machine correctly

I am assuming you mean 3.043.057 since there is no 3.043.067.
3.043.066 is the highest it goes on the FTP site.

[LeeWay]

I could have sworn it was 67. Now I am confused, but whichever one it was, it would not home correctly. 66 does.

Okay, I just found that copy and it is version 3.043.067.

http://thesharkguard.com/pdf/Mach3Version3.043.067.zip

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I could have sworn it was 67. Now I am confused, but whichever one it was, it would not home correctly. 66 does.

Okay, I just found that copy and it is version 3.043.067.

http://thesharkguard.com/pdf/Mach3Version3.043.067.zip

That's interesting, since, as Cris indicated, there IS no version 3.043.067....

Regards,
Ray L.

[LeeWay]

Apparently there is or was. I had to have downloaded it at some point from the Mach 3 site. They certainly may have removed it because it doesn't home right. I put a zipped copy of it up on my site.

[datac]

Can someone that runs linux cnc tell me if anything like the Mach 3 offsets screen with the edge finder function exists?

I believe I have come across numerous discussions thru the reading I have done so far that yes, Lcnc does have this capability... it is after all, just simple input monitoring and proper recording of edge locations. I couldn't put my finger on exactly where at this moment..... but I think there was something in the gmoccapy wiki.

I gotta say that the occasional comments I have found that would indicate that there is not as much help for linuxcnc in their forums has not been my experience.

In fact, I came across an issue that puzzled me, and not only did I get a quick answer, but it would appear that the whole dang developer group jumped in to make a change to the program itself. For a long, long time, I had created G&M code for various engraving machines I have dealt with with Signlab. Signlab was obviously never one of the top CAM players, but it was and still is a program that deals with large amounts of text work better than the other popular programs.

The trouble is, it had the tendency to handle arc commands poorly, leaving an error in start and end points. So, I grab one of the files, load it in LCnc, and I get a start/end point error. Now I was always familiar with this erro, because programs like NCPlot would kick up a message box telling you it existed, but would plot it for you anyhow.

Now this particular error was never enough of an error to actually SEE it in a string of engraved text, and all these years, Flashcut has run these particular files without complaint. Thats because Flashcut has a user adjustable tolerance for this, and it by default is higher than the error in the files.

But they will not run in LCnc.... I found plenty of other people who had the problem, and they were always advised that their cam system was the source of the problem, which is was, BUT, there are reasonable amounts of allowable error, depending in what a person might be exactly doing.

So to wrap this up, I get into the Lcnc forum, raise the question, point out that FC has a user adjustable tolerance for this and, why can I not find such an adjustment in LCnc ? (and frankly, I have a LOT of old files that get run on occasion, and I am not going to regenerate them).

After all, there is obviously a tolerance hard coded to kick up the error message to start with, right ?

So, I was shown a link to a separate discussion, where the developers tore into the issue, raised all the right questions, came to conclusions, and indicated that in a future release, we will likely see an INI adjustable tolerance !

Now you can not complain about that !!!!

[RCaffin]

Such passion! Such fervour! Amazing stuff.

Mach3 vs LinuxCNC vs ...
Windows vs Linux vs OS2 vs ...
See any similarities? Well, I can.

Yes, Mach3 has deep architectual bugs in obscure parts of the code. That's why they are rewriting Mach4 from scratch.
Yes, the parallel port is a dinosaur. Actually, it's worse than that: you should see the internals of the stone-age chip it was based on.
Yes, the USB Smooth Stepper can fault on some machines due to noise. That's why we have moved to the Ethernet SS.

But yes, there are thousands of hobby users running Mach3 happily, and hundred of commercial users doing so too. So why is there so much screaming about how terrible Mach3 is? Ah well, there is a very good reason. If you can call it a 'reason'.

Ever looked to see what's on the majority of Windows bulletin boards? Novices, thousands of them, all complaining about the same problems.
Now look at the majorty of Mach3 bulletin boards. Exactly the same thing: lots of novices who can't get their machnes to work. Now ask yourself why they can't.

In 99.99% of the cases, it is because the novices have no knowledge of engineering, no knowledge of electronics, and no knowledge of CNC. But they want to put together a Chinese CNC kit and 'make things'. Often, using a pirate copy of Mach3. No, I am not being nasty about them. This is reality. Read the pleas for help, and the answers some very dedicated people keep providing. But we get the same questions and problems, week after week.

I did actually give up on one guy who was advised to go and read the manuals, but replied that he didn't want to waste his time with all that stuff, he just wanted to make things... and why wouldn't it work??? He wanted a magic solution.

Sigh.
Cheers

[MBViklund]

Well since I started this thread I have recieved my mill and been running it with mach3. The mill was already set up with mach when it was delivered from Novakon. Unmodified mach3 is really a pain in the b**hole. Hard to find the buttons and hard to find documentation for what the buttons do and what settings affect what. Then i came across MachSTDmill. This screenset really changes mach3 from being hard to use to easy to use. Not everything is straight forward but the 300 page manual with examples is there to back you if there is something you don´t get.

I have to little experience from mach3 to say whether or not it is full of bugs. It could be user errors but the machine have done things not expected by me a few times.

Any how I will continue using mach3 for now. I will definitely try mach4 when drivers are available and it has been tried by somebody with a little bit better understanding of electronics and programming than me.

[kvom]

I got my NM200 in 2009 and have been running the same version of Mach3 ever since. I know where all the buttons I need are and am now set in my ways apparently. There are a few things I don't like (such as no jogging in toolpatgh window) but nothing that keeps me from making my 1-off model parts. If I were a production shop I'd get a probe and TTS holders and the MSM screenset.

[RCaffin]

I will definitely try mach4 when drivers are available and it has been tried by somebody with a little bit better understanding of electronics and programming than me.

Chuckle - and some of us with a lot of knowledge of electronics and CNC programming are thinking exactly the same. But, current progress tells us it WILL get there in the not too distant future.

Cheers

[RCaffin]

Interesting, so I had a look at the Flashcut web site.
Um. I could see many problems for me:

1) They don't give any prices on the web site. You have to ask. I won't deal with companies which hide their pricing - usually if you have to ask you can't afford it. And don't give me any BS about how it is too complicated to put prices on the web site: other companies DO. No pricing => dinosaur company.

2) They still use USB for the connection. But USB is not good in an industrial environment: the signals are quite low level and there is no galvanic isolation. All this means there is great potential for noise to upset the system. Been there, had that, not again.

3) You have to buy the whole kit and kaboodle. You can't retrofit just the SW to your own gear. The Flashcut SW drives their Flashcut USB box, which drives their Flashcut motor drivers ... etc. This is as bad as some of the old generation CNC control boxes which were developed in the 60s. Complex, power-hungry, proprietary, unrepairable, and obsolete in today's world. Sure, many are still in use commercially - it takes some time for the head to realise the tail has been cut off.

4) In view of 3), it seems you can't just try out the SW without buying all the HW. At least, with EMC2 and LinuxCNC, you can (at least in principle).

I guess if you have lots of money and want a complete handhold, it might be useful.

Cheers
Roger

[MBViklund]

I got my NM200 in 2009 and have been running the same version of Mach3 ever since. I know where all the buttons I need are and am now set in my ways apparently. There are a few things I don't like (such as no jogging in toolpatgh window) but nothing that keeps me from making my 1-off model parts. If I were a production shop I'd get a probe and TTS holders and the MSM screenset.

I'd say it is well worth the investment to get tormach tool holders. The copies are not even expensive you probably get 10 for $400 MSM is $70 a probe $100. 500-600$ is nothing compared to what you spent in the machine. And it is well worth it even if you are only doing one of parts. I'd say it is even more worth it then because you have to reset the jobs all the time. :-) I'm not aiming towards making allot of the same parts either. I want to do one off parts. That is where I can compete with the guys running big expensive machines.

[RCaffin]

I'm just a hobbyist, but

> The copies are not even expensive you probably get 10 for $400
I would probably need about 20, what with handling both imperial and metric.
And I would need either a PDB or a step ladder. For me, ER collets (kept clean etc) are very satisfactory.

> a probe $100
I have a touch probe (several) and a ZTO. They work very well, but I find a mechanical wiggler and a feeler gauge much faster and much less crash prone, while being accurate to 5 microns. That's enough for me. OK, I have used the touch probe in Z axis mode for scanning a few things - like the surface of the mill table itself! (It was tilted on the X axis, but a single bit of Al cooking foil (ahem - precision shim) in the right place solved that.)

> 500-600$ is nothing compared to what you spent in the machine.
For a commercial user, maybe. Hobbyists have a different budget.

Cheers
Roger

[bhurts]

I see a lot of posts stating that usb is unreliable. Not just for some people but just plain unreliable. I use k-flop and do not find this to be the case. I have never had any issues with it being usb. It is dead reliable 100% of the time. I also notice that I haven't seen anyone posting any usb issues with k-flop. Maybe were all just lucky but I suspect usb is just fine for this setup. The only usb controller issues I have seen are in regards to the smoothstepper.

Ben

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I see a lot of posts stating that usb is unreliable. Not just for some people but just plain unreliable. I use k-flop and do not find this to be the case. I have never had any issues with it being usb. It is dead reliable 100% of the time. I also notice that I haven't seen anyone posting any usb issues with k-flop. Maybe were all just lucky but I suspect usb is just fine for this setup. The only usb controller issues I have seen are in regards to the smoothstepper.

Ben

Ditto. I've been running KFlop for 3 years, on two machines. Never so much as a hiccup. The SmoothStepper seems to have some reliability problems with USB, but the KFlop is rock solid.

Regards,
Ray L.

[G59]

Mach3 and LinuxCNC in my opinion, are hobbyware.

I mean what do you expect from software that seemingly does everything. 3,4,5,6 axis and be great at doing them all?
Come on, get real guys.

If you are going to use your New machine for commercial purposes, then invest in real software specific to your needs.

Mach3 has an overly crowded UI, if all you have is a 3 axis mill.
Linux is just plain confusing to me. If it works well for some, then great.

My suggestion, use what came with the machine until you are comfortable with it. If this is for hobby use, it will prolly be good enough.

Personally, you can't beat software that was specifically written for the intended purpose or machine.

Having run "real" machines ie Haas, Brother etc.... the ui and motion controls are matched to perform exceptionally well for that specific machine.

So I think you should run what you already have. When you realize any shortfalls with the software, don't bother with Linux, as it is basically same as mach, get yourself Flashcut and be done with it.

[datac]

>>>Interesting, so I had a look at the Flashcut web site. Um. I could see many problems for me:

1) They don't give any prices on the web site. You have to ask. I won't deal with companies which hide their pricing - usually if you have to ask you can't afford it. And don't give me any BS about how it is too complicated to put prices on the web site: other companies DO. No pricing => dinosaur company.

----Gee, I SEE pricing shown... They show ranges for each different class. There sure are a lot of Dinosaur companies out there when it comes to Cad and Cam then ! Yes, RANGES of prices because frankly, they have an awful lot of OPTIONS !

2) They still use USB for the connection. But USB is not good in an industrial environment: the signals are quite low level and there is no galvanic isolation. All this means there is great potential for noise to upset the system. Been there, had that, not again.

----BULL, Bull and more BULL ! It has to be DONE RIGHT. Just because someone jumped in and made a garbage USB product for a popular cheap control doesn't mean it doesn't work. In fact it works EXCELLENT. You may have been there with the WRONG product, that's all...... Flashcut has been doing it for 7 years or so with USB ! I personally have MANY different types of machines running Flashcut, including plasma. All the crap I see people dealing with regards what they call "noise" or "bad wiring methods" just blow me away. And because I am a long time retrofitter, Flashcut is not the only program I have dealt with. You may also note that there are other USB control programs that have hit the market in recent years..... I would assume if they have been done right, they also work. They might not be $150 programs though if that is what you expect to get excellence in "industrial environments".


3) You have to buy the whole kit and kaboodle. You can't retrofit just the SW to your own gear. The Flashcut SW drives their Flashcut USB box, which drives their Flashcut motor drivers ... etc. This is as bad as some of the old generation CNC control boxes which were developed in the 60s. Complex, power-hungry, >>> proprietary, unrepairable, and obsolete in today's world. Sure, many are still in use commercially - it takes some time for the head to realise the tail has been cut off.

---- Here too, you have been misinformed. It's ok, lots of people have been, especially here in the zone where Mach is "king" (until they use something else as we are now seeing with people FINALLY trying something else and finding out they have been using less than stellar options).

You certainly CAN just buy Flashcuts software and their signal generator. You have been able to since 1996 when they started business. This really is no different than current developments from Eding, from Kflop, From Planet, From GRBL or from TinyG.... ALL USB controls. Why if USB does not work are all these new control companies using it ??? H'mmmm.....

I know you can buy just these components, because I have been using it since 1997... and I have used my share of just those components on everything from New Hermes Engraver retrofits to the old Digital Tool Routers. My first retrofit was a Western Engravers Router that had absolute garbage on it for a control. It got retro'd to Ah-ha in 1995, which had its own quirks, toyed with IndexerLPT and finally to Flashcut in late 1996. There was no looking back after Flashcut. Remember that this was an era when knuckleheads in forums were absolutely convinced that you couldn't have a workable control in "windows"... heck, some STILL think this !. Not only could you, but you also had some very nice Continuous contouring FOR OVER TWENTY YEARS NOW !!! Where have people been ? I find it hilarious !

Now, I understand how business works, and YES, Flashcut sales people will want to sell you drivers and motors right away... for good reason. For one, if you do buy all their stuff, it all plugs in and immediately plays nice..... Nothing to adjust other than your gear ratio's and Feed/ Accels. And, having had the chance to use the drivers they do sell, let me tell you a smoother, quieter drive might not exist !

But, do to various budget controls on some projects, I have connected it to all sorts of drivers over the years, and that too works very well. They have PLENTY of adjustments to dial in any old ornery driver.


4) In view of 3), it seems you can't just try out the SW without buying all the HW. At least, with EMC2 and LinuxCNC, you can (at least in principle).

----Well, this now is true. I can not argue that. The Signal generator is essentially their "dongle"...... They are not "open source", and never have been. That is certainly a business choice they are allowed to make, and obviously, still being here for over 20 years... well, it would probably be foolish to say they do not know what they are doing now would it ?

If you have been lucky enough to play with numerous "controls" of this nature, and you came across Flashcut, it becomes a no brainer. I'll admit, there are some really nifty new controls coming down the pike and they are worth watching, but FC has had everything these new ones have (perhaps even more) and have had it for years and years already !


--- I guess if you have lots of money and want a complete handhold, it might be useful.

I believe that their retail price on just software and signal generator are not all that much more than what people have spent on the most popular DIY control mentioned at the zone. They spend $150 on the "control", but somehow need a fancy break out board with all sorts of additional doodads for another $200, then they just have to have a "smoothstepper" for an additonal $180+ because they have crappy motion (this might be after they bought the failed USB smoothstepper which ups the grand total now quite a bit) , Then they need the infamous MPG...... How many of those were built and imported from China that people got stuck with because they did not work and would never work ? And finally, spend hours and days searching thru forums trying to find out why their spindle fails to turn on and off or why the machine dive bombs for no reason every now and then. How many $$$ are really involved at this point.

The rest of us go over to the Flashcut forum here at the zone, immediately note that there are really no "problems" that people are dealing with because the program has really been everything I have been saying it is.... and again, it has been for 20 years !! (BTW, there was nothing wrong with their prior communication methods of Serial port... I have a few machines running that just fine) The documentation is clear, the program is not at all buggy. There have not been daily bug filled releases creating hundreds of potential variables including releases that people ended up with that do not exist according to others (figure that one out), and practically any doofus could just look at the interface and understand what they should do with it..... making for a program that just does not fail in any way... not for what they have been charging !

Just sayin'