[BurrMan]

News flash:
The horse has left the barn. You're just digging around in the manure....

I pretty much disagree with what's being said in this thread.... But there always seems to be a couple guys bring one out at every release.....

[magicniner]

The horse may have left the building but it snuck out without saying goodbye and it doesn't phone, it doesn't write........... :-(

BobCAD-CAM Software Updates

In efforts to provide better service BobCAD-CAM has chosen to prioritize software enhancements and bug fixes to active support members first. Critical fixes will still be provided free of charge. In the future critical bug fixes and updates will be addressed separately.

BobCAD-CAM’s success has always been offering high value and competitive software. We know shops of all sizes rely on BobCAD and the #1 reason they choose us is value. So staying true with what has made the BobCAD CAM brand and product line so successful has always and will always be providing the highest value in CAD CAM software.

The more customers that are on support the better service we can offer. As a BobCAD customer you expect a knowledgeable support technician to answer your questions in a timely manner with a high level of customer service. Due to the increasing popularity of the BobCAD-CAM product lines our customer base has grown steadily. To meet the demands of our growing client base and to sustain a high level of service we were faced with a choice. We feel requiring our customers to maintain an active support subscription to obtain updates is the best choice we could make to keep the lowest cost for the clients and still provide a competitive product.

These changes have been in place but not enforced since the release of version 26, All of our BobCAD-CAM version 26 customers have been notified of this at the time of purchase along with the notification of the available support plans.

As our customer it is your right to be entitled to a working product, If you feel you have found a bug in the software do report the issue to us so that we can provide solutions and critical fixes to you in an efficient manner.

Each report will be reviewed on a one on one basis and handled accordingly. Bug reports can be reported here Select a department - Powered by Kayako Fusion Help Desk Software

It all gets down to what a "Critical Fix" is and what a "Critical Bug Fix" is and without clarification/definition they are what BC wants, when it wants.
I think we should reasonably expect not to get any bug fixes for non-functional/partially-functional/useless features without a support subscription,

- Nick

[WILDMAN2]

Well I like V-27 no problems with it at all. Bobcad hit it out of the park. I have 3 types of CNC Hass, Monarch and Cinci Milacron. Bobcad V-27 is so easy I have my opperater converting there own programs to there machine. I just make all the programs to run on the Hass. Old V-26 go right in have not had any problems to date.

[nelZ]

WOW...you have to pay for bug fixes? Is that legal, it's clearly unethical. When's the last time you paid to fix the airbag that would take your head off ????

[nelZ]

The only reason I wanted bug fixes is the scroll down goes way too slow in the middle box (Cad stuff) and that is just bad programming. That would be a bug fix. Nothing anyone should have to pay for. Any suggestions for an alternative to Bobcad?

[nelZ]

So here's something else. I just made some solids, did some intricate fillets, had a problem in that it wouldn't do a Boolean subtract, saved and closed the program, reopened it and my solids are gone!! The last solids I drew are there. the 2 hours worth of work before them are GONE !

[mmoe]

The only reason I wanted bug fixes is the scroll down goes way too slow in the middle box (Cad stuff) and that is just bad programming. That would be a bug fix. Nothing anyone should have to pay for. Any suggestions for an alternative to Bobcad?

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you scrolling the screen? You can just use your mouse to zoom to areas of the drawing, not sure I've seen anyone use a scroll bar to navigate in the drawing window. I don't find there is anything slow about navigating the drawing window in Bobcad, and in V27 you have dynamic zooming which makes it even faster than it's been in the past. You'll have to post something to illustrate what you are having trouble with.

Slow scrolling (giving the benefit of the doubt that it's an issue at all) is not really a "Bug". How fast something works is usually dependent on their computer, graphics card, etc. Whether or not it works correctly is how you define something as a bug. If you can scroll correctly without malfunction, then it works and can't be classified as a bug. If you want a more responsive scrolling, you'd have to submit a feature request, and at that point they would determine whether you are the only person who would ever use this feature, or if it's a feature that would benefit a large portion of their customers. If you are the only one who feels this feature needs to happen, it's not going to happen. In which case, you need to find alternate ways to do what you are trying to do that fit with how Bobcad was designed to be used.

[JEST]

Agree with mmoe. Doesn't sound like a bob bug.

As far as confirmed bugs, is more like a used car purchase... As is where is.

[nelZ]

Let me explain. click Utilities - Translate. Go to that translate window-you want to click the OK button let's say...... click in the scroll bar area. In 26 it's useless. It goes very slowly. You have to click and drag the button down to see the OK/CANCEL buttons to click them. Takes more time.

Another annoying thing is those 3 windows on the left changing their size without operator input. Why does this happen?

This is Visual Basic 101

Either way, with no crash, I still have to redo something which took me 2 hours the first time WTF

[mmoe]

So here's something else. I just made some solids, did some intricate fillets, had a problem in that it wouldn't do a Boolean subtract, saved and closed the program, reopened it and my solids are gone!! The last solids I drew are there. the 2 hours worth of work before them are GONE !

Post an example file (zip the .bbcd file and people here can help you figure out what's going on). In most cases, what most of us here find is that new users are trying to make the software work their way rather than working the way the software wants to work. Whether it's Bobcad or anything else, there is a workflow that the designers of the software typically base the organization and operation of the software around. The further you stray form those methodologies, the more likely it won't work for you.

As far as geometry vanishing after a crash, I would say that is unusual in my experience. I don't get many crashes at all, but when they do happen I usually find it would be more typical that you loose the latest work you did, which did not get autosaved yet. You should also have the backup files configured so that you can recover your work, standard strategy for pretty much all software. If you have done this, you should have a backup version of your file that will probably have what you need.

There are many experienced users here that use Bobcad extensively without any issues. The main difference is they know what they have learned to use the software properly. Some software products don't mind being used improperly, but they typically produce erroneous results or ignore what you were doing entirely and pretend like you didn't tell it anything. Bobcad is a little sensitive about improper user strategy, but for those who take the time to learn how it wants to be used, is very reliable and stable, as much so as anything else I've used (and I've used a lot of CAM software). When you are dealing with software that comes from a relatively small development team, the choice is to produce a less innovative product with more polish, or push for more unique features that expand what can be done with the software. It's pretty hard, I imagine, for them to accomplish both. That said, I think Bobcad does a great job of introducing those innovative concepts while keeping the software at a pretty usable level of fit and finish. When you use a lot of other products, you really start to see how much effort Bobcad has put into some of these innovations. Try finding a CAM product with drive curves in their equivalent to "Equidistant Offset". I haven't seen it and it's a very useful way to establish how this strategy works. Try finding a "Planar Slice" equivalent that has adaptive stepover to compensate for steep terrain regions on 3d models. Again, this is a unique feature of Bobcad. Both of those very unique functions were added in a single release, while they also completely overhauled the CAD side of the software to add many dynamic mouse functions, parametric style CAD operations (the entire CAD tree is new), and a whole pile of new CAD operations that didn't exist one year ago. The last release of Bobcad was equally aggressive with the new Dynamic Machining Strategies, etc., so it wasn't like they mailed it in on V26 with only minor changes to allow for more planning on V27. For a small company, the level of innovation in CAM they are providing is astounding. The down side to that is that there will just be some degree of polish missing, but when you are dealing with bleeding edge concepts, that's not unusual at all. The fact is, right now Bobcad is actually producing bleeding edge CAM functions that many of the much bigger products don't even have a competing strategy for. At the same time, the software is generally very solid and they listen when we find things that need attention. They are also very responsive to feature requests when they make sense for the masses. As with all things, you take the good with the bad and weigh whether the good comes out on top. In my opinion, it does with Bobcad, but everyone has different needs.

[mmoe]

Let me explain. click Utilities - Translate. Go to that translate window-you want to click the OK button let's say...... click in the scroll bar area. In 26 it's useless. It goes very slowly. You have to click and drag the button down to see the OK/CANCEL buttons to click them. Takes more time.

Another annoying thing is those 3 windows on the left changing their size without operator input. Why does this happen?

This is Visual Basic 101

Either way, with no crash, I still have to redo something which took me 2 hours the first time WTF

You must have the smallest screen resolution on earth, no offense. Is this a small laptop? I have about 2 inches of space below the "OK" button on the translate function in V26 (and all the others really). I also don't get any changing window sizes, but again the space I have is larger than the area those windows require.

Again, I don't know how you got what you got, but its' not the norm in my experience. I've used V26 all year long, producing thousands of parts. I don't use the CAD portion that much, but when I do it always works the way it's supposed to. V27 has a few bugs in the CAD that I feel need addressed, but I have not been able to confirm that it's a bug or my lack of understanding their new CAD tree system. In V27, I think they are also still learning what may be better or need adjustment since it's a complete paradigm shift in CAD for Bobcad, so I imagine they will be taking user feedback on those issues into account. V26 just doesn't have CAD problems that I've been able to find, but it's also the very peak of years of the same basic system and was pretty well ironed out. You need to show us what you are doing. It would also be good to know what you are using this on (laptop? video card? etc.).

[nelZ]

It didn't crash. I finished the intricate stuff then put in some extruded curve solids and tried to Boolean subtract them to make pockets. It would not work. This has been spotty before but has worked. I have autosave set for 3 minutes from my Bobcad experience.

In case Bobcad need a restart I saved and closed the program, took a break, reopened it and --- gone.

FYI the autosave version is of course identical.

Thing is the earlier work I had done was gone and the more recent solids were still there.

Thanks for trying!

[mmoe]

It didn't crash. I finished the intricate stuff then put in some extruded curve solids and tried to Boolean subtract them to make pockets. It would not work. This has been spotty before but has worked. I have autosave set for 3 minutes from my Bobcad experience.

In case Bobcad need a restart I saved and closed the program, took a break, reopened it and --- gone.

FYI the autosave version is of course identical.

Thing is the earlier work I had done was gone and the more recent solids were still there.

Thanks for trying!

Usually it's a problem with the geometry you created if it won't perform boolean operations, at least that's my experience. Bobcad is very picky about the geometry where other applications will produce a potentially passable result, even though the reality is that the result is erroneous. I have a prime example in a model I created in Viacad where the wireframe of the geometry clearly shows that a roundover produced a shift along one segment. It made the roundover as I asked it to, but the geometry is technically incorrect, which becomes an issue once you get to the point of producing toolpaths off of it. So what is better? Software that refuses to perform a task that in theory can't be done? Or software that will perform the closest approximation of the task as it understands it? The former shows that you need to correct something first, then perform the task, while the latter hides the fact that you have issues and you often get much further down the road before you discover the problem, at which point it can be difficult to repair and you're back to square one. The point is, just because something appears to work does not always mean that it does work. I could show all kinds of poor geometry out of Rhino as well, and it's an industry standard 3d modeler. Again, it will do the operation and if the discrepancy is small, it will look like it's correct. It's not Rhino's fault either, since it's a problem with workflow that generates the erroneous data. The difference is that Bobcad simply refuses to perform that action or may occasionally even crash trying. Neither is a good situation and the solution is to go back to the real problem, which is usually the source geometry created several steps earlier.

Here's a link to show what I said about the screen resolution earlier. This is a video showing what V27 looks like at my end. V26 looks exactly the same and I really have never noticed the scroll bars at any point being slow, but I can't recall seeing scroll bars. If I saw it on my laptop, I would be expecting it to be a little slow since Bobcad just runs slow in that case all around.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sfjF5CD5EYHRh

[BurrMan]

WOW...you have to pay for bug fixes? Is that legal, it's clearly unethical.

apparently we've got a guy who has been living in a cave for 10 years or more...

and as for the "car analogy", let us know when bobcad kills your mom. Im sure you'll have a great case there....

[BurrMan]

As far as confirmed bugs, is more like a used car purchase... As is where is.

Used car huh... Interesting... I've seen plenty of dwerps get into a Lamborghini and grind the hell out of the gears and think it's a crappy car... Plenty of guys hate Mastercam.. Plenty of, plenty of..

You keep making repetitive posts about how crappy everything is.....A long list of "riddled with bugs".. Where is it? I'm sure you can create a list of improper use and crappy computer, but "Bugs?"

The list just isn't that long.... Why so destructive to the forum? Got some type of axe to grind?

Nelz not having a resolution and aspect ratio that suits what he desires is not a bug... Just ignorance, or circumstances, but not a bug... Same thing with most of the stuff being dropped here...

[nelZ]

To quote Shakespeare, "the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy makes..." (Hamlet is listing the reasons to take his own life...this is one of the reasons)

Burrman, You're as new as I am to this forum - 2008, you've seen the posts complaining about Bob and his software. Remember V22? You've heard of the incessant sales calls. I am polite. I don't hang up. I should since I do have a job to do but I don't hang up.

You may use Bobcad, I don't know. Cave for 10 years...sure...unless Bobcad liked me in the past. I've never bought a "support contract" but have never until today seen a request for money for updates of an existing program, Bobcad or elsewhere. Sure...to a new version with "bigger bells and heavenly whistles". Do you try to keep your software up to date? If not then you've never had this problem. I have as recently as V25 updated software without this $ fishing trip.

I have a post in another section petitioning advice on an alternative CAM package. I don't believe I'll find anything inexpensive enough to convince my beancounters.

As it stands, Cheap is the deciding factor. BUT Burrman, what about the above....I drew complex solids, then some simple ones, tried to do a Boolean, didn't work, (happened before) Saved file, Closed V26, Opened V26, Opened saved file....Complex solids Gone, more recent no brainer solids....happy and panting like a 1 year old pup sitting next to the poop he just did on the kitchen floor?

[jrmach]

Forums are made up of the users of the software with an occasional BoB Representative on here.
Lots of Hobby guys,but there are guys that use it for making $ like me.
I use the forums to learn.I also find when I answer questions,it forces me to really learn as I have to put it in words that can be understood.Try it,it really works.
I have my share of concerns with the software,but I am at a lost wth you are talking about.
Start a thread and ask a question.I am pretty sure mmoe's reply was spot on.
BTW...........R Click and scrolling down to OK ????Easier to just select and when it turns red,hit the space bar.
I got a whole drawer full of little bits of information that help someone into using BoB.

what about the above....I drew complex solids, then some simple ones, tried to do a Boolean, didn't work, (happened before) Saved file, Closed V26, Opened V26, Opened saved file....Complex solids Gone, more recent no brainer solids....happy and panting like a 1 year old pup sitting next to the poop he just did on the kitchen floor?

Great,,now do it again.If you know the software,you should be able to repeat it.That is another requirement to be a bug.So document what exactly you did.Pretty sure,real sure it is your end at fault.
My first year or 2 I made a lot of posts that started WTF...After being proven wrong most of the time,I figured it best to ask questions and comprehend the replies.JSYK,,Mr.Burr as a matter a fact is the number one reason I come to this forum.He is not on here as much as he use to be,but when nobody else can answer,he can.He knows a lot more than BoBcad,and he is a Computer guru to boot.I have yet to see anyone impress me more,,but he does get a little hot when newbies come on and throw stuff around because they are ignorant of the software.
Why don't we try this again and start by asking 1 question at a time and provide a file or a video to help us understand.

[BurrMan]

To quote Shakespeare, "the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy makes..." (Hamlet is listing the reasons to take his own life...this is one of the reasons)

Hamlet was an idot......

Burrman, You're as new as I am to this forum - 2008, you've seen the posts complaining about Bob and his software. Remember V22? You've heard of the incessant sales calls. I am polite. I don't hang up. I should since I do have a job to do but I don't hang up.

Hmmmm..... "Posts complaining about BobCad"...... I have seen many people who couldn't/didn't/wouldn't take the time to learn how to use the software properly.. I have seen a very limited amount of "Bugs" going by over the years... (Please don't bring up V22. We all know it's release was a debacle. It took till the final release of V23 to be sorted.... Most people who chose to work it out, were given free upgrades and the software was being sold for only hundreds of dollars at the end.... The complainers switched into comparison of other higher end softwares and the lacking of similar functionalities to list.. I remember writing a speech about "be careful what you wish for" describing why softwares like Mastercam and solidworks cost so much more than BobCad..... Hmmmm... (Strap forward to now and check prices.. Although, "I" have a lot of the exact same toolpaths as Mastercam for a 3rd of the cost) ...

Phone calls? Please see here:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bobcad...ml#post1609048

The user who posted that seems to be upset that nobody called him to tell him?? LOL

Although, PLEASE READ THE QUOTE. Al from BobCad posted it.... I'll highlight a part for you.....

In efforts to provide better service BobCAD-CAM has chosen to prioritize software enhancements and bug fixes to active support members first. Critical fixes will still be provided free of charge. In the future critical bug fixes and updates will be addressed separately.

So let's see. Someone came into a third party forum the "day a update was posted on the BobCad website" and started a ***** session about how ripped off they are... Others have chimed in and made posts like "stealing. Shisty. etc, etc.. bs...bs... We even had a longstanding BobCad customer and user who has helped many people right here in this forum stating "he is done with such practices and wont be purchasing" etc.... REALLY? Did someone tell him he cant/wont get "critical bug fixes free", or did he just assume something? Has he spoke to someone at BobCad about his critical bugs? or is there another line about how terrible that would be for him to have to pursue that. Like BobCad can really get on the phone and address 100,000 people in a few day roll out period....

PLEASE......

You may use Bobcad, I don't know

Once in awhile I do....

. Cave for 10 years...sure...unless Bobcad liked me in the past. I've never bought a "support contract" but have never until today seen a request for money for updates of an existing program, Bobcad or elsewhere. Sure...to a new version with "bigger bells and heavenly whistles". Do you try to keep your software up to date? If not then you've never had this problem.

I havnt ever bought one either. I expressed my dislike for them at the initial rollout. Hey, I was even asked my opinion by AL on it right here in this forum!!!! However, they decided to go with support plans... I am still on the first V27 build. (Unless, well, you know the rest)

Subscriptions and support are rampant in the industry and many others.. There are some which "you cant even use" without one.... It's kindof amazing that you don't know of any...

I have as recently as V25 updated software without this $ fishing trip.

Yup. It started with V26... But money fishing trip? Nah, they have to stay in business. Especially now that we have Moduleworks full 5th axis and are getting advanced and contemporary systems, building the functionality into a more complex level..... Remember the "be careful what you wish for part"?????

As it gets more complex, you'll get more erroneous results if you don't learn the system. You cant just open mastercam and go to town. There are entire industries of "training" for people to just use it....

it will also introduce little things like "pick bugs" that need to be addressed, when they implement new viewport advanced techniques..... But "riddled with bugs and worthless second hand car ripping off of customers???"

Nah......

[BurrMan]

The "Complex solids" erroneous results?

There are a few guys here that would be glad to help. A good start is to present something that can be addressed, like a bbcd file. ( Please, not the empty one.... )

complex fillets combined with Booleans are the 2 powerhouse areas of solids modeling that need to be paid attention to.. It's not for ****s and giggles....

[SBC Cycle]

The horse may have left the building but it snuck out without saying goodbye and it doesn't phone, it doesn't write........... :-(

It all gets down to what a "Critical Fix" is and what a "Critical Bug Fix" is and without clarification/definition they are what BC wants, when it wants.
I think we should reasonably expect not to get any bug fixes for non-functional/partially-functional/useless features without a support subscription,

- Nick

I guess we will know what is a "Critical" bug is when we see the first free update. Has there been a separate update yet for non support members?