[Steve Seebold]

What's your spindle speed, depth of cut and and your feed rate on your finish pass? Are you trying to do your finish cut at 5100 RPM?

If you're trying to make your finish cut at 5100 RPM, that's your problem. I learned a long tome ago to slow down the RPM and the feed rate for the finish cut and I have been getting some very nice work ever since.

Another factor could be the type of cutter you are using. If you're buying a cutter from an industrial supplier, then he's going to tell you that what he sells is the absolute best cutter on the market.

If you are using Monster end mills, I would bet money that's your problem. Those have to be the absolute worst cutters I have ever used, and I have been doing this for a LONG time.

I bought some Monster end milld a while back and they turned out to be the absolute worst end mills I have ever used. They would chatter at anything over 1,000 RPM. I mean at 1050 RPM, they provided a really piss poor finish.

[FuriousGeorge]

I did a quick test cut on my machine in which I have made NO modifications or attempts to remove the ripples. I have done a 0.5" DOC, 0.005" WOC with a 1/2" 2 flute Lakeshore Carbide variable flute endmill in aluminum at 3500 RPM and 40 IPM. The top cut is climb milled and the lower cut is conventional. I see absolutely NO difference in the ripples or finish between the two. While this certainly is not enough to establish if climb v conventional is better for a finishing pass, it without a doubt tells me the ripples have nothing to do with feed direction.

Attachment 255766

[G59]

How much of a close up? I think that can easily be buffed out with polish. I think too much worry for surface finish. After all, how often do you need a mirror finish? I wonder if the result would be the same in steel.

[BAMCNC.COM]

What's your spindle speed, depth of cut and and your feed rate on your finish pass? Are you trying to do your finish cut at 5100 RPM?

If you're trying to make your finish cut at 5100 RPM, that's your problem. I learned a long tome ago to slow down the RPM and the feed rate for the finish cut and I have been getting some very nice work ever since.

Another factor could be the type of cutter you are using. If you're buying a cutter from an industrial supplier, then he's going to tell you that what he sells is the absolute best cutter on the market.

If you are using Monster end mills, I would bet money that's your problem. Those have to be the absolute worst cutters I have ever used, and I have been doing this for a LONG time.

I bought some Monster end milld a while back and they turned out to be the absolute worst end mills I have ever used. They would chatter at anything over 1,000 RPM. I mean at 1050 RPM, they provided a really piss poor finish.

Hilarious! The brand... Monster... Bad endmills you say? Possibly a LONG time ago? I have videos showing that Monster brand endmills beat ALMOST every endmill I've found (except accupro) in Titanium.

As for Furious G - Perfect, you found that backlash isn't an issue with your setup, but there are still other factors at play. It's not an end all, it's just one Solution to many issues. - Add them all up...

OR figure out all your issues, THEN add conventional as the LAST step. 40ipm finish pass on a tormach has me laughing though, no wonder it looks terrible. Try a 3 Flute endmill next time - you people and your 2 and 4 flute endmills keep me laughing when talking about aluminum. If the frequency is there, why would you "double" your frequency instead of kick it in the face with a 3 flute???

Also if you anodize and need it to look good, you should probably run it though some stainless media and not worry about your surface finish off the mill... Heck even a sand blaster..

I don't know everything, but have learned in the few years of doing what I do, what people like Steve have done in 50 years... Steve learned by HIS own mistakes, I have learned by YOUR mistakes. (of course my own too, but the internet has every answer you need, Steve didn't have that - so I will always wish to be like Steve, and have his wisdom)

[waltpermenter]

I'm glad all these uber experienced hobby guys KNOW what the problem is. conventional milling is NOT the answer, don't care what you read somewhere by someone else with limited experience. get yourself a variable helix endmill if you are taking these full depth finish passes and your finish will improve.
walt

[BAMCNC.COM]

I'm glad all these uber experienced hobby guys KNOW what the problem is. conventional milling is NOT the answer, don't care what you read somewhere by someone else with limited experience. get yourself a variable helix endmill if you are taking these full depth finish passes and your finish will improve.
walt

I see that you can't read, and you have 2 red marks under your name, BUT we all should - by now... understand variable helix endmills help. However you have people using the wrong coatings for certain metals (ZrN for 6061 Aluminum is right), using coolant with a coating (normally a no no, but depends on materials, etc), using 2 and 4 flute endmills hoping for a mirror finish (Yep... 3 flute is the answer here), using carbide endmills where HSS would be better (if you didn't know, HSS *could*be sharper, and help with surface finish in AL) We know backash CAN play a part in things if their ball screws are ever not so perfect (This is where conventional milling comes into play, check your X and Y gibs aswell) Also we SHOULD know that your gib tightness plays a HUGE roll in this (Z axis has the most to do with this when talking about gibs and surface finish) Don't forget about Lube - what LUBE are you using, any snake oils in it? (I use a friction modifier in mine, made by Archoil) What about collet runout? Did you check? Do you care? Do you worry about surface finish more than you NEED to? (yep, many people care about things that don't make a difference in the end, OCD is just getting worse in the world)

HOBBY (waltpermenter called me hobby, lmao.....ahahaha... bwaa.. anyways...) people put lipstick on a pig and smile (Meaning - worry about this thread, try everything they can to turn a Tormach into a Makino)

Money Makers on the other hand get to work, find ways to DEAL with what they have, and make the best of it.

I can sound arrogant all day long, but CNCZone has went to mid day television (yes, after the price is right) - I don't even let my wife watch that garbage...

as for Steve's LOW RPM Finish Pass - That is quality info, BUT it has to do with YOUR machine. Too many variable at play to figure out where your harmonics are (gibs, lube, casting, bearings, etc) Steve's idea is solid, and will help your surface finish "over all" NOT 100%, but will *help* lower that frequency.

I have been to Gear Faliure Analysis class in Big Sky, Montana. Learned A LOT about lube, and how gears and bearings work. Did you know a bearing on the SHELF not used has a life expectancy??? EMF and other issues will "arc" the "balls to the race" .. this causes "frequency" when ran.

I use to work on GE Wind Turbines for 7 years, we could hook a frequency monitor on the outside of the tower, at the BASE (yes, 300' below the nacelle (top)) and listen to the generator bearings.... I know ALL about ALL of this frequency stuff, the issue is people fighting a Chinese creation with bearings that sat... who knows know long? Are they SKF.. or.. who knows??? How's your grounding in your shop? Any lightining this year? What about when the bearings were vibrating on the sea from china? ... Honestly.. use your Tormach and be happy. SMILE - you have "MADE IT" to a Tormach.. keep pushing. You can get to a Makino in a few years (Or Brother VMC)

Yep.. time to argue with me... I need a laugh - do I sound pissed? lol

[waltpermenter]

yes, sorry, you must think you can call yourself a machinist by selling trinkets you make in your garage. how many NIMS credentials have you earned in your apprenticeship to become certified? you better google that one. tone down your attitude my boy, it's not a redeeming quality.

[BAMCNC.COM]

If you only knew....

There is more GOOD advice in my last post, than all your 234 posts on "the zone" - It's the internet - I DO NOT CARE WHO YOU ARE, OR WHAT YOU HAVE.

If you are "RICH" then why are you here?
If you have 1 bazillion NIMS creds then why are you here?
If you know everything, then why do you only have 234 posts?
If you are so smart, then start helping more. Where is your YouTube channel to help people?

If anyone didn't already realize, there are minimal "REAL and RICH" machinists on this forum - I highly doubt you are one of them.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Too funny! Spoken by the just about the only person on CNCZone who has never, not ONCE, made a single post showing a single thing he has actually machined or built himself, or even that he owns, or has even owned, or ever even operated any kind of milling machine. He just sits on the sidelines spouting his opinions like they are gospel, and, in his 200+ posts doing little more than lobbing insults at the many people who have proven their skills and accomplishments over and over, and make worthwhile contributions to this forum on a regular basis.

What sad, pathetic lives some people must have, that their only source of pleasure is insulting complete strangers from the safety of anonymity, rather than being a productive, contributing member of this forum, or some other part of the world. How hard must someone work for how many years to get so damaged and dysfunctional?

And what the heck is wrong with the CNCZone management that they allow such useless trolls to litter the forums with their nasty, insulting, useless posts year after year? How many threads must be closed before they finally take out the trash? Complaining to them does no good....

[BAMCNC.COM]

Thank you Ray, you are one of the main guys I look up to

[waltpermenter]

"your" good advice is merely what others had posted already, i'm here because i'm a retired certified machinist, only 234 because i still like to watch price is right. your youtube looks like nothing more than a means to get customers for trinkets and monetize with ads. lots of smart guys on here with no youtube channel that help quite a bit thanks. a poster showed proof that your claim about conventional milling is incorrect but yet you still argue for it, some people are unwilling to accept facts. i fired many fellows over the years that felt if they were aggressive enough with their attitude it would hide their inferiority.
walt

[BAMCNC.COM]

If you did more research you could look up that fact???

I'm off.. later!

(man... should of called my website trinkets.com, probably would be on my yacht by now)

P.S. Waltpermenter - You probably worked for... SOMEBODY ELSE... I have ZERO college, and work for MYSELF. While my boss (me) may be the biggest PRICK in the world... I wouldn't work for anyone else ever again.

[waltpermenter]

If you did more research you could look up that fact???

I'm off.. later!

(man... should of called my website trinkets.com, probably would be on my yacht by now)

P.S. Waltpermenter - You probably worked for... SOMEBODY ELSE... I have ZERO college, and work for MYSELF. While my boss (me) may be the biggest PRICK in the world... I wouldn't work for anyone else ever again.

you must have missed the owner part when you were browsing my profile. it's a bit different when you must make parts to other peoples precise specifications and tolerances that must also pass their quality control departments and not to whatever loose specs you think are good enough for your own hobby products.
walt

[popspipes]

I have never come across this information other then the 770 spindles are balanced for high speed.
Please provide more detail on how this is measured and done. I like to keep my mill tuned and in top running order and this sounds like something to schedule and look at .
Thanks in advance for any information or tricks.
md

MD,

The thread is "I love my Tormach but", kind of lengthy but all the details are there. I will say in my case anyway, it made quite a difference in the finish of the parts.

[BAMCNC.COM]

You are right I missed that. I do have to respect an owner. Sorry if I got pissy - bad day yesterday.

However that leads me to another point. You had REAL machines doing your work, not Tormach's. So YOUR solution is not valid here, only people who run Tormach's have valid solutions in this thread. I've ran my Tormach for 2 years, I've used well.. more endmills types than most people. I have almost every accessory Tormach makes for the Tormach 1100, only thing left is a speeder and that isn't far away.

I'll pay 50$ for one endmill if it lasts or does better than a $20 endmill. I have a video that is LONG just talking about all the endmills I have tried. I have experimented in production to get REAL results. Most of the people in this thread (like Ferrous George and no offense to anyone, just being real here) experimented on 1 part (of a few parts, not 1000 parts) and thinks his outcome is done. He didn't play with speeds and feeds, etc. THAT is not experimenting, that is just TRYING to prove a point.

I'm sure I come off as Arrogant - but not unlike Steve. We do have reasons for what we say, we have LIVED them. I give Steve crap too, who doesn't - I still respect him. Ray too! My Tormach has 1% or less of "hobby use" - Heck my Taig CNC had maybe 10% hobby use. Learning to get HIGH QUALITY production parts off a Taig will BLOW YOUR MIND in what it takes in... R & D of sorts. I learned all the tricks with a limp as a noodle tiny mill, I moved to a Tormach and getting a good surface finish is cake. I basically just told you how a few posts ago.. I don't give all my secrets away, nobody does.

Old video, still learning - never give up learning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFVdmjFzj0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzX-Sw9mOYY

I believe I have around 5 videos talking about endmills and the quality.

Another old vid to watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmcNdUsWEE

My hobby parts keep my family fed and my commute to work is about 20 feet. Can't go wrong there. Would you complain? I still think it's a dream.