[bill south]

Today I attempted to face some aluminum with my pro. The machine has been idle for a couple of weeks and appeared to be working fine the last time I used it. I just recently installed a new arduino controlled bob and ran some test cycles to make sure everything worked fine.
Today I set up the facing operation and the spindle would not start. I checked the voltage on the VFD and am getting voltage on the single input so that appears not to be bob related. One thing I did note was that the voltage is 10V with the spindle off and around 3.45 when setting the spindle to spin at 5000RPM so it appears to be working although backwards from what I'm use to.
The VFD does not have any error messages and I don't have the VFD manual to check the programming. However, everything should be OK since no one has messed with the machine but me. It's a hobby mill.
Now, has anyone had spindle problems before? If memory serves, the spindle always made a whineing noise which I thought was a servo at first. Now, nothing. The motor does not lock up when call for speed, it appears to be completely inoperable. I checked the voltage in and the 220V is there. That is as far as I got before honey-do's took over and fun time ended.
Can someone point me in the right direction. I have most of the equipment needed to troubleshoot it but without the manual I'm kind of lost.
Any ideas folks?
Thanks in advance.
Bill

[Novakon]

Hi Bill,

There are two parameters in Mach3 that have changed with the new BOB. The input logic for the PWM was reversed to take advantage of fewer components on the BOB. The Mach3 setting for pin 16 needs to be reversed. Also, the coolant pump uses negative logic so you need to reverse the logic state on this one also. This you should have seen the pump coming on when Mach3 activated the BOB charge pump. Simply switching the pump logic output will put things back in order.

Regards,
Novakon Team

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Bill,

There are three signals associated with spindle control, connected to the FWD, REV, and VC terminals of the VFD. With the spindle off, FWD and REV should both be at about 5V, and VC should be at about 0V. With the spindle on CW (M3), FWD should be at about 0V, REV at about 5V, and the voltage on VC will depend on the commanded speed - 0V = 0 RPM, 5V = 6000RPM. With the spindle on CCW (M4) both FWD and REV should be at abougt 0V. You can test the VFD configuration by disconnecting the wires from the FWD and REV terminals of the VFD, and MDI a "M3 S3000" in Mach3. Then using a jumper wire, connect the FWD terminal to the GND terminal on the VFD, and the spindle should turn on CW at 3000 RPM. If you jumper both FWD and REV to GND, the spindle should turn CCW at 3000 RPM. If it does, then the VFD is fine, and there's a problem with the BOB or the wiring.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Novakon]

This procedure will certainly determine if the C300 driver is functioning. There also seems to be a need to check the voltage scale for spindle speed. Some mills were set to a full rpm scale range of 0-5vdc while others were 0-10vdc. Either one is fine to work with. Check your VFD setting F2.1 and make sure the adjustment on the BOB full scale calibration are the same. Your BOB was already preset to 10vdc for full spindle speed so I would just make sure the F2.1 setting is at 10. Check/change this when you are done isolating the problem so your BOB and VFD are tracking properly.

Regards,
Novakon Team

[bill south]

Thanks Guys;
I did some voltage checks as Ray recommended and this is what I have.
s=6000
m3
forward 5 bolts
reverse 0 volts

m4 forward 5 volts
reverse 5 volts

I disconected the bob and jumpered to forward and did get spindle movement. So, not the VFD.
Has to be my settings.

ports and pins (motor outputs)
Spindle checked enable;
step pin number 16
direction pin number 0
direction low active not checked (red x)
step low active checked (green checkmark)
Step port 1
direction port 0

Would someone please checked their system with the new BOB and let me know if this is correct.
One other thing is with M5, both forward and reverse is at 5 volts which is the same as a m4 command. Seems incorrect to me.
I'm most likely overlooking something kind of like, can't see the forest for the trees.
Help is appreciated.
Bill


spindle checked active.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Bill,

With either BOB, the DIR signal from Mach3 is connected directly to the REV input of the VFD. It looks like you need to flip the "ActiveLow" setting for DIR in Mach3 Ports&Pins. The FWD signal is generated by the MCU on the BOB, based on the PWM and ChargePump signals, and must go LOW to turn the spindle on in either direction. This is where your problem lies, and suggests either your ChargePump or PWM signal is either not working, or not being correctly seen by the MCU. You can verify the PWM signal by putting a voltmeter on the VC pin of the VFD, and setting different spindle speeds - you should see the voltage change with different spindle speed commands. Based on what John has said, it sounds like you should see ~0V for a spindle speed of 0RPM, and ~10V for a spindle speed of 6000RPM.

Regards,
Ray L.

[bill south]

Thanks Ray;
The PWM signal is there and functioning as described. I flipped the direction setting and no joy. During a m3 command I get 5 volts on rev and 4.4mv on forward. During a m4 command I get 4.4088V on both for and rev.
When I change the active low setting on motor outputs. Should there be a pin and port assigned to direction pin and port on motor outputs?
If it could be the new bob, I can always install the old one back in. It was flakey but I could get it to work.
Are there any more tests I could perform to help isolate the problem.
I really appreciate your help. Without any documentation, I feel I'm in the dark.
Bill

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Bill,

Sounds to me like the new BOB has a problem....

[bill south]

yup
Me too.
I'll install the old board and contact Novakon.
Many thanks and have a good rest of the day.
Bill

[bill south]

Well;
06:00 am in south carolina and I just switched out the BOB with the old unit and no joy. Same symptoms. It must be the VFD. I replaced the BOB with the new un it (again) and testing on the unit I get 5V on both for and rev when not calling for spindle movement. When I enter a m3 (a forward move) at 3000 rpm I get 5V on reverse, 4 mv on the forward (low) and 5 volts on the av which appears to be normal. Also, I can get spindle movement when I hot wire grnd to forward but no speed control. Wide open whenever the ground is applied. I don't know if this is normal. I did go into the VFD programming and verify that it is looking for a remote run signal and is not programmed for local input. Anyway, noone has been running th eunit but me and I have not changed anything.
I also went into mach and straightened out spindle motor entry to reverse the pwm so I get 0 volts for spindle off and 10 volts at 6000RPM. I also reprogrammed the vfd to use 10 volts for maximum instead of 5Volts from the old card. Could running the vfd with a 10 volt signal from the new bob have damaged the vfd circuitry if it was still set at 5 volts from the old card. I didn't know to change it but I really don't think it could have caused the problem.
I'll contact Novakon and see if I can score a new VFD asap. I planned on the long weekend comeing up as a get caught up in the shop weekend and I need my equipment running. Wouldn't you know it, when I moved the RF45, I didn't move the controls thus with all my cnc mills down, I'll be running a bridgport!
Lawdy, I need coffee.
Can anyone else think of something to try with my current equipment?
Many thanks.
Bill

[jalessi]

Thanks Guys;
I did some voltage checks as Ray recommended and this is what I have.
s=6000
m3
forward 5 bolts
reverse 0 volts

m4 forward 5 volts
reverse 5 volts

I disconected the bob and jumpered to forward and did get spindle movement. So, not the VFD.
Has to be my settings.

ports and pins (motor outputs)
Spindle checked enable;
step pin number 16
direction pin number 0
direction low active not checked (red x)
step low active checked (green checkmark)
Step port 1
direction port 0

Would someone please checked their system with the new BOB and let me know if this is correct.
One other thing is with M5, both forward and reverse is at 5 volts which is the same as a m4 command. Seems incorrect to me.
I'm most likely overlooking something kind of like, can't see the forest for the trees.
Help is appreciated.
Bill


spindle checked active.

Direction port 0 ?

That does not sound correct.

[bill south]

Doesn't sound right to me either but I have not changed any settings and the machine was running with the old BOB.
This is from Ray!
"With either BOB, the DIR signal from Mach3 is connected directly to the REV input of the VFD. It looks like you need to flip the "ActiveLow" setting for DIR in Mach3 Ports&Pins. The FWD signal is generated by the MCU on the BOB, based on the PWM and ChargePump signals, and must go LOW to turn the spindle on in either direction."
I don't understand it either and hope Novakon will jump in here and provide some guidance. I kind of hope it tuns out to be a screwed up setting! I would not mind being a dummy as long as I get a working machine!!!!
Thanks for the reponse.
Bill

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Bill,

DIR should be on Port 1, Pin 14. But, that has nothing to do with why your spindle is not turning on at all - it would only explain it running the wrong direction.

If you can turn the spindle on in both directions by pulling either FWD (for CW) or FWD and REV (for CCW) to GND on the VFD itself, then the VFD is fine.

Check that VFD parameters F0.4 and F0.5 are both set to 1. Some early machines were apparently configured differently.

REV should be getting controlled directly by the Mach3 DIR output, and should be HIGH (5V) for either M3 or M5, and LOW for M4. You should also be able to see this reflected in the Pin 14 LED on the BOB. FWD should be controlled by the BOB MCU, and should be HIGH for M5, and LOW for either M3 or M4. Check these levels first with the wires disconnected from the VFD, to ensure the BOB is driving them correctly. Then re-connect them and check again on the VFD.

What are the "ENABLE" and "CHARGE PUMP" LEDs on the BOB doing when the spindle is supposed to be on? I believe the new BOB also has a "SpindleEnable" LED, located near the 6-pin VFD connector. This is the signal that actually drives FWD to the VFD.

What is connected to the 2-pin "SpindleEnable" connector on the BOB?

Also, there is a 3-pin jumper near the 6-pin VFD connector on the BOB. What position is that jumper in?

Regards,
Ray L.

[bill south]

Thanks Ray;
I'll check everything tonight. You're a great help and one of the primary reasons I purchased a Novakon!
Bill

[bill south]

Bill,

DIR should be on Port 1, Pin 14. But, that has nothing to do with why your spindle is not turning on at all - it would only explain it running the wrong direction. Corrected for pin 14

If you can turn the spindle on in both directions by pulling either FWD (for CW) or FWD and REV (for CCW) to GND on the VFD itself, then the VFD is fine. VFD is fine (thankfully)!!!!!

Check that VFD parameters F0.4 and F0.5 are both set to 1. Some early machines were apparently configured differently.
These are OK.

REV should be getting controlled directly by the Mach3 DIR output, and should be HIGH (5V) for either M3 or M5, and LOW for M4. You should also be able to see this reflected in the Pin 14 LED on the BOB. FWD should be controlled by the BOB MCU, and should be HIGH for M5, and LOW for either M3 or M4. Check these levels first with the wires disconnected from the VFD, to ensure the BOB is driving them correctly. Then re-connect them and check again on the VFD.
This is the results of direct measurement with both for and rev disconnected.:

m4 forward 2 mv
rev 2mv

m5 forward 0 volts
rev 3 volts

m3 for .5 mv
rev 3 volts



What are the "ENABLE" and "CHARGE PUMP" LEDs on the BOB doing when the spindle is supposed to be on? I believe the new BOB also has a "SpindleEnable" LED, located near the 6-pin VFD connector. This is the signal that actually drives FWD to the VFD.
both on. charge pump pulsing with pin 13 on the arduino.


What is connected to the 2-pin "SpindleEnable" connector on the BOB?
two blue wires. 1 to vfd other to the 6 pin connector

Also, there is a 3-pin jumper near the 6-pin VFD connector on the BOB. What position is that jumper in?

[/U][/I][/B]jumpered to pn 1 enable (set on the right set of contacts). Sorry eyes are getting tired and lighting is not very good.


Regards,
Ray L.

OK Ray.
3 volts on the high output sounds low.
What ya think?
Bill

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Bill,

"charge pump pulsing with pin 13 on the arduino." - Do you mean is gets lowly brighter, then dimmer, rather than simply blinking on and off? If so, that indicates DriveEnable is NOT active, which means the Arduino is not seeing the ChargePump signal from Mach3. I'm not sure what logic drives the ChargePump LED on the BOB, but the pulsing SpindleEnable LED is generated by the MCU when it does not see charge pump activity within the allowable frequency range. Novakon will have to comment on how the ChargePump LED could be on, but the MCU does not see the ChargePump signal toggling properly.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Novakon]

|Hi Bill,

Could you send us a copy of the XML file you are using. We will tweak the settings you need for your new BOB. This way you will retain your personal setting you already have changed for your mill. Please send it to [email protected].

We think something was inadvertently changed somewhere. Also, if you could send picture of the installation, it might also give us insight to any potential problem.

Thanks,
Novakon Team

[bill south]

Hey Ray and Novakon;
Ray, the leds are blinking at what we use to call a TTL rate. So pulsing was not the correct term! Sorry.
Novakon, I just sent you my xml file.
Guys, thanks for all the help. I know we'll figure out what I've done wrong.
Bill

[CROSSHATCH]

I'm not sure I can help you with Pin porting as I do not have the new B.O.B yet but boy, my machine does some strange things when it does.

I did notice that for whatever reason, this has happened twice to me already in the past week (And never before) that with everything idle (E-stop engaged etc), after clearing it...the Spindle would not start. No whine, nothing...not even restarting the BOB (which is what I do when my charge Pump goes haywire, that's another story). Last night, it required a computer restart to work.

I don't know how and what would cause such intermittent failure.

Maybe you problem will shed light on some of mine. Good luck.

-Jason

[bill south]

Good Morning Jason and Zone folks.
Just to close this out for future reference, John was able to guide me through troubleshooting and found a solution. There is a new jumper header installed on ver5 of the BOB and it was in a position for use with a PDB which I do not have installed. This morning after receiving John't email, I changed the jumper pins and the spindle started up.
Strike up one for the Novakon team.
Many many thanks.
Bill