[Tkamsker]

Hi I Do a lot in Alu (also molds ) Even in an Router i get better than 0.1mm accuracy (but it is an german machine) and as i dont own a tormach but similar (austrian Made i was at the factory ) so i See no reason why a tormach Should t be able to do that. And about Alu i had a long learning curve to Master it it is about speed and Strategie s ..

[ajg762]

for close tolerance parts i always figure i will be taking a sizing cut (roughing then finish, but finishing still up), then changing the tool offset to produce the part to the correct size. At least for the first one that is anyway.
cut times arnt usually the problem it is more having the correct part in then end. as for the duality lathe i thought that would be the case, i have a good quality manual lath with DRO and quick change tools. maybe if the job becomes bigger and i get really feed up doing it by hand i will look into the new tormach lathe once bar feed and ATC are options?

[GJeff]

The Tormach 1100 is very worth it in my opinion. The engineering is sound, and the machine performs to spec. I use the kress companion spindle on the 1100 to get up to 29k RPM which you'll want if you do a lot of machining with small end mills 1/8" and below to get proper SFM. It's definitely more time to fiddle with end mills though with such a setup, potentially to the point of being nonviable for any real production work.

As for Sprutcam, I have version 8... it does a lot for the price. If there is anything else out there that is 4th axis compatible that doesn't cost $3k+ I dont know of it. It's finicky though, and I end up wrestling with it almost every time. Its waterline ops, probably the most used operation, don't like to cooperate. You tell it you want a 24% tool diameter stepover, it cuts into the part with a nice helical plunge just like you told it, does some 24% cuts, then plows right through at a full slot width when things get too complicated. Maybe others can weigh in who have found ways to better manage what to me seems like bugs. I get around it by doing all complicated waterlines with the high speed cuts "with pocketed step" selected. This appears to be one operation that Sprutcam is happy enough to never exceed your selected stepover when performing. That said, I don't regret my Sprutcam purchase because I've continued to look for affordable alternatives (4th axis compatible) and they do not seem to exist.

[bevinp]

Hey GJeff, is that nervous eye twitch you have due to SprutCAM?

[GJeff]

You talkin to me?

[bobeson]

I agree that SprutCAM does seem to have more capabilities than competitive offerings in that price range, but the frustration of all of the constant bug workarounds really wears me down. I skipped the upgrade from 7 to 8 because I've essentially stopped using SprutCAM in favor of limiting my work to 2.5D and using HSMxpress instead. I intend to purchase the yearly HSMworks lease once I have another project that requires a full 3D path. For the 4th axis so far I only use it with manual positioning, what you might call "2.5+1 axis" work, since I just don't want to hassle with SprutCAM any more. Too much wasted time! I wish there was a CAM offering with similar capabilities that doesn't cause predictably large amounts of time to be wasted whenever you use the product.

[ajg762]

Ok so if Spurtcam is such a pain what other CAM software would you recommend? i don't mind spending alittle to make life easy as this machine will be there to make me money not give me headaches. it must work good with soildworks and be 4 axis though. can i just use any CAM software?

[ajg762]

so i had a interesting talk with a guy using the TTS (without ATC). he was machining aluminium and steel and was saying you had to really swing on your spanner when attaching to the mill as he has had tools come loose when taking big cuts or using bigger than 10mm cutters in steel. has any one else had this issue? does the power draw bar do tools up enough to prevent this? is the ATC and TTS strong and rigid enough to use on steel and confidently or is it better to just change tools by hand and swing on the spanners?

[GJeff]

Any cam that produces G code should work with some tweaking.

follow this guide and you will not have issues with collet slip
http://www.tormach.com/uploads/163/T...lding-pdf.html

[UniqueMachining]

While I have had no experience with Sprut, it appears their are some detractors . I can only relate to Visual Mill which I gave up on after 3-4 months. It proved to be more a pita than it was worth. I had originally ruled out BobCad based solely on the negative reports on the high pressure sales tactics.

With Visual Mill out the door, I decided to check out BobCad, as the specs appeared to be fairly impressive. Gone was the high pressure sales tactics and tech support is stellar. Perhaps one of the most impressive features is the plethora of videos which are available from multiple sources. They appear to cover virtually every aspect of BobCad and provide an ideal learning vehicle. Like any cam, it has its quirks and there is a learning curve but it was less than Visual Mill and proved worth the time.

Capability wise, it has proven far more capable than VM and far friendlier. One mans experience!

John

[cobrakai]

I have an 1100, series 3 and overall I am very happy with the machine.

I don't think there is anything overly special about the machine itself , when comparing to some of its competitors, it is less powerful, less weight and less travels than say a Torus Pro or a Smithy Talon, there is nothing overly special mecahnically, it uses good quality ballscrews and double nuts, has a quality coating on the ways, but still uses dovetail ways, does not have crazy fast rapids, etc and does not have huge travels.

What is special about the Tormach IMO is their support is unbelievable, even if you buy a used machine, they stand by their product like few companies do these days. They always have pretty much every spare part in stock which is nice, they have fantastic documentation, and they have a very integrated solution for almost anything you want to add on within reason.

You want a power drawbar, they got it, you want an ATC, they got it, they have the Mach3 version to support the ATC and setup it up quickly, they have a nice integrated 4th axis, probes, etc. and they have tons of videos on how to use it, set it up, etc.

If the support and the integrated solution are important, you really cannot go wrong with this machine, they hold their value very well as they are very popular and have a high resale value, and if needed they will hold your hand through any problem you have, no matter how basic or complex. If those things are not as important, perhaps a competitor would offer more value to you.

This is so very true. I bought my 1100 used and received great phone support both before and after the purchase. The team answers quickly and offers great advice. Then they sent me a collet and coffee mug for free when I realized I was still using the older version! Just great.

[cobrakai]

I agree that SprutCAM does seem to have more capabilities than competitive offerings in that price range, but the frustration of all of the constant bug workarounds really wears me down. I skipped the upgrade from 7 to 8 because I've essentially stopped using SprutCAM in favor of limiting my work to 2.5D and using HSMxpress instead. I intend to purchase the yearly HSMworks lease once I have another project that requires a full 3D path. For the 4th axis so far I only use it with manual positioning, what you might call "2.5+1 axis" work, since I just don't want to hassle with SprutCAM any more. Too much wasted time! I wish there was a CAM offering with similar capabilities that doesn't cause predictably large amounts of time to be wasted whenever you use the product.

I was very upset with SprutCAM at first. As a long time Solidworks user it now comes naturally to me and I wanted to be as comfortable with SprutCAM. I'd say it took 20-40 hours of use and reading online forums to figure out all the details and make it do what I wanted. But now it's great and I've done some rather complex shapes with it. It is quirky but very powerful. Combined with GWizard you can do anything like a pro.

My advice is to start with the most complicated part possible so it forces you to use ever feature possible, from contouring to chamfering to pocketing. Also, watch all the videos put out by SprutCAM and Tormach, they are very helpful.

[ajg762]

Thanks for all your thoughts guys looks like in the next week or two im ordering a 1100 with 4th axis, PDB, ATC and a bunch of other accessories. still haven't made up my mind between bobcam and spurtcam though. and thinking im going to make my own full table and enclosure with food coolant a chip evacuation.

[GJeff]

I kinda wish I had made my own table, but I would have done so without concern for flood coolant and just stuck with air cooling. You'll find on these forums that a lot of the more prolific Tormach users and posters are using air cooling/lubing. It is simply so much more convenient, and works perfectly for continuous machining of certainly every material that I wish to cut. I'd take the money saved on the Tormach table and coolant system and spend it first on a high CFM compresor, then either get a fogbuster or even a vortex tube like Don Clement uses. I'd love to see the full details of Don's cooling setup. I'm not sure if he ever made a thread on it.

[Steve Seebold]

I have had my PCNC 1100 Series II for three years now, and it is one of not THE best investments I have made since my forced retirement.

If you're looking for a machine that moves at lightning speed, and will hold plus/minus .0001, then you are looking at the wrong machine. If you are looking for a machine hat moves at a reasonable rate and will hold plus/minus .001, then this is the machine for you.

I don't have the ATC on my machine. It wasn't available then I bought it. The ATC came about 6 months after I got my machine. My solution to fewer tool changes is to make tools to hold several and run them that way.

I make a lot of tools/fixtures using Mitee Bites for clamping. For quick and dirty fixtures, you can't beat them.

As far as the machine goes, for what you're paying for it, you can't beat it. If I had room, I'd probably buy another one. With 2 machines, I could run one side of a part on one machine and finish it on the other one.

I get a lot of jobs where I machine 5 sides of a part in the first op, then flip it over, machine the bottom off and finish the part. If I could find another Quad 1 vise, I would do both sides of the parts on one machine.

BUY THE TORMACH. You won't be sorry

[mountaindew]

i don't mind spending alittle to make life easy as this machine will be there to make me money not give me headaches.

That's the kicker LITTLE
For the cost I could find nothing even close to sprut.
Any other full 3 -4 axis mill packages run 2-8k from what I looked at.
Anyway you will find sprutcam to be very good tool combo with your tormach and solidworks.
Although it takes some time to get up to speed and there are some glitches, before you know it your on your way.
Most understand that all complex programs have problems and this one is no different.
If your looking for a phone app these programs require more investment in time and money
Bottom line imho it makes the machine work and its a paper weight without good cadcam.
I design and simulate everything carefully with fixtures and tools reviewing setting and results.
This allows complex operations with dozens of tools in dozens of coordinate systems and get great results with few wow what happened moments and fewer tool crashes.
I use the red button to shut machine off at end of day.
As for tool package its hard to say what works best for who and what. Starting out with no cnc experience I figured atc would be of little use until my skill level matched that need.
I focused more on precision tools like calipers, indicators , mics, rules, pins, parallels, vice and wow has the cost of this stuff ever added up.

Final note have fun, much to learn!
md

[MLaVigne]

I've had my (company's) series 3 mill for a bit over a year, already paid for itself in prototyping costs alone.

We do mostly 304 and 316 stainless (some aluminum, some nickel-superalloy's) and the machine holds tolerances just fine, and as long as you torque the TTS collet to spec (quite a bit of force, and you need to lube some surface, but not others for best results- see the design white pages on it) i have not had any pullout issues (i had it happen once when i first got the mill- before i read the spec).

As for sprutcam it is infuriating, but then i got a quote for a CAM package that would integrate with my CAD (solid edge) and they wanted $12k for live 4 axis.. oh yea, and another $4k a year to maintain. I'll take sprut and all of its idiosyncrasies before I pay more for the software than the mill costs.

So basically what everyone else said:
Buy a tormach, you'll love it
and buy sprutcam, you'll hate it but it is an order of magnitude cheaper than any other viable alternatives.

-Michael.

[sansbury]

BobCAD-CAM has both a standalone and SolidWorks plugin version of their software which has indexing-only and continuous 4th-axis toolpath options available. I've bought 3 versions (22, 23, and 25) and the more recent versions have done a pretty good job of just working for a low cost of entry. It has its share of "features" that still drive me crazy but it does make for a complete CAM system (and limited CAD in a pinch) that has let me use 100% of the machine. I'd say it's worth the trial, especially now that it ships with a decent Help file and they have put a lot of tutorial videos up on Youtube.