[ajg762]

hi guys im looking at getting a Tormach 1100 with ATC and had a interesting talk with a guy using the TTS (without ATC). he was machining aluminium and steel and was saying you had to really swing on your spanner when attaching to the mill as he has had tools come loose when taking big cuts or using bigger than 10mm cutters in steel. has any one else had this issue? does the power draw bar do tools up enough to prevent this? is the ATC and TTS strong and rigid enough to use on steel and confidently or is it better to just change tools by hand and swing on the spanners?

[GJeff]

I don't have a power drawbar, and I absolutely love TTS. Never had a slip issue, but I always follow http://www.tormach.com/uploads/163/T...lding-pdf.html

IMO, the power drawbar is just a luxury unless you're going full out with an ATC and doing production stuff. You can change tools very fast without it, using a single wrench/brass hammer tool that tormach sells, thanks to the spindle lock you can engage.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

TTS holders are MORE than capable of handling any cut a 1.5HP machine can deliver. Avoiding pull-out on maximum-effort cuts requires adequate drawbar tension, which means a minimum of 2500 pounds tension, preferably more. This translates to a minimum of about 20 ft-lbs of torque on the drawbar, which is easily achieved with wrenches.

Regards,
Ray L.

[WOTDesigns]

Google TTS pull out and you will find dozens of threads answering your exact question and outlining the correct procedures to prevent pull out with TTS, power draw bar and heavy cuts.

Brian
WOT Designs

[Don Clement]

IMO, the power drawbar is just a luxury unless you're going full out with an ATC and doing production stuff. You can change tools very fast without it, using a single wrench/brass hammer tool that tormach sells, thanks to the spindle lock you can engage.

I do prototyping and limited production. For me the PDB is does 99% of what the ATC does. Tool changes for me with the PDB are just a push button or foot push away. IMO even when prototyping the PDB is way faster than the the old slooow method of opening the spindle door and using a wrench to change tools.

Don Clement

[RussMachine]

There is nothing wrong with the TTS tooling.
They work great for me.
If you know how to properly tighten a Bridgeport drawbar, then tightening the Tormach drawbar is the same thing.
Tighten it down, then give it a good 1/4 turn 'torque'.
I've never had a tool slip on me.

[GJeff]

I do prototyping and limited production. For me the PDB is does 99% of what the ATC does. Tool changes for me with the PDB are just a push button or foot push away. IMO even when prototyping the PDB is way faster than the the old slooow method of opening the spindle door and using a wrench to change tools.

Don Clement

I upgraded to a Tormach from a harbor freight mill that required two wrenches and a huge pain in my ass whenever it was time to change tools. To me, opening the cabinet, swinging the lock, unscrewing the bolt, giving it a tap, swapping tools, rescrewing, unswinging, closing cabinet, feels as fast as can be. The majority of my time during that process is spent using compressed air to make sure the next tool's shaft is good and clean. Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy having the powerdraw bar, but I use my companion spindle for the majority of my work, so there's no way to justify it. I'd pay good money for a fast way to change end mills on that thing though

[shred]

I have had tools slip and damage parts but, I still use and prefer TTS. I know to keep a sharp lookout when chatter comes calling. I even usually leave a TTS collet in my manual mill and move tools over rather than faff with those collets.

[Don Clement]

To me, opening the cabinet, swinging the lock, unscrewing the bolt, giving it a tap, swapping tools, rescrewing, unswinging, closing cabinet, feels as fast as can be.

Feelings aren’t facts! That's the real slow way to change tools and the way I did it on my Tormach and Rockwell mill before getting the PDB. Changing R8 tools is even slower before TTS. With the Rockwell manual mill before lubricating the outside of the 3/4" R8 collet, drawbar threads, and drawbar parts that held TTS tooling with Armite LP250 antisieze LP-250 & LP-250F Anti-Seize Thread & Sealing Compound it was necessary to use a leather mallet on the drawbar to remove TTS tooling. Now lubricating with LP-250 the TTS tool just drops out after loosening the drawbar on my Rockwell mill. Also the Tormach with the PDB lubricating the Bellevue washers and all the sliding PBD parts with Armite LP-250 eliminated any tendency of TTS to pull out. BTW I will never go back to changing TTS tools manually without the PDB using the cave-man sluggishly slow drawbar again. YMMV.

Don Clement

[rowbare]

I don't have a power drawbar, and I absolutely love TTS. Never had a slip issue, but I always follow http://www.tormach.com/uploads/163/T...lding-pdf.html

IMO, the power drawbar is just a luxury unless you're going full out with an ATC and doing production stuff. You can change tools very fast without it, using a single wrench/brass hammer tool that tormach sells, thanks to the spindle lock you can engage.

To me a power drawbar is a bit like a dishwasher or cruise control. You are fine without them but once you have had them, you will never want to go without.

bob

[Moggot]

Feelings aren’t facts! That's the real slow way to change tools and the way I did it on my Tormach and Rockwell mill before getting the PDB. Changing R8 tools is even slower before TTS. With the Rockwell manual mill before lubricating the outside of the 3/4" R8 collet, drawbar threads, and drawbar parts that held TTS tooling with Armite LP250 antisieze LP-250 & LP-250F Anti-Seize Thread & Sealing Compound it was necessary to use a leather mallet on the drawbar to remove TTS tooling. Now lubricating with LP-250 the TTS tool just drops out after loosening the drawbar on my Rockwell mill. Also the Tormach with the PDB lubricating the Bellevue washers and all the sliding PBD parts with Armite LP-250 eliminated any tendency of TTS to pull out. BTW I will never go back to changing TTS tools manually without the PDB using the cave-man sluggishly slow drawbar again. YMMV.

Don Clement

In my case the building I work in doesn't have adequate compressed air for a PDB, and my neighbors disapprove of an air compressor generating even more noise (acoustic and electrical) then the mill. Because my work entails relatively few tool changes I might shave a couple minutes on a 4 or 5 hour long job by using a PDB. I'm not missing much and the cost of upgrading my air supply ontop of the cost of the PDB would just be a bad investment.

*shrug* sometimes caveman slow is fine if going a little bit faster is going to cost you a small fortune.

[Steve Seebold]

Feelings aren’t facts! That's the real slow way to change tools and the way I did it on my Tormach and Rockwell mill before getting the PDB. Changing R8 tools is even slower before TTS. With the Rockwell manual mill before lubricating the outside of the 3/4" R8 collet, drawbar threads, and drawbar parts that held TTS tooling with Armite LP250 antisieze LP-250 & LP-250F Anti-Seize Thread & Sealing Compound it was necessary to use a leather mallet on the drawbar to remove TTS tooling. Now lubricating with LP-250 the TTS tool just drops out after loosening the drawbar on my Rockwell mill. Also the Tormach with the PDB lubricating the Bellevue washers and all the sliding PBD parts with Armite LP-250 eliminated any tendency of TTS to pull out. BTW I will never go back to changing TTS tools manually without the PDB using the cave-man sluggishly slow drawbar again. YMMV.

Don Clement

I bought the PDB 3 years ago when I bought my machine and about 2 years ago I bit the bullet and installed a 3.5 HP Kaeser Screw Compressor on a 60 gallon tank. Now, I can stand right next to the compressor and carry on a norman conversation without having to raise my voice. My compressor is in the back corner of my garage and if you're standing by the big door, you almost can't hear it run. Yes, it was expensive (close to $4,000.00) but in my opinion, well worth the expense.

My new compressor comes on about once every 30 to 45 minutes and runs for about a minute and a half. The 2 HP Husky compressor I had before came on every 15 to 20 minutes and ran for 7 to 10 minutes depending on how much air I was using at the time. AND it was freaking noisy.

[Don Clement]

Each person has their own reasons to use or not use the PDB. For me the PDB has changed the way I program CNC. I used to program CNC for a complete run of parts using no tool changes while changing parts in a fixture. Now because of the ease of changing tools with the PDB,I program to change tools often and change parts in the fixture less often. For example in tapping 36 blind 4-40 holes I used to use a solid carbide split-point screw machine length drill for a single step operation to drill aluminum ton a run of parts changing the parts in fixture, then tool change for the Procunier tapping head with Balax roll tap and tap all parts by changing parts in fixture. Now with the PDB I first use a spot drill, change tool to drill and then change tool to Procunier head and tap then change part in fixture. In some of my parts there are 8 tool changes. For me the PDB is much more than just a " cruise control" luxury, the PDB changes the method and way I program CNC. I believe the ATC would be another leap but not quite the quantum leap the PDB was over using the manual draw bar for tool changes.

Don Clement

[DaQue]

PDB is faster if you're hovering at the mill. If you're multitasking I think the ATC would be really nice to have.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[GJeff]

ATC would be a dream come true. Just saying, for people looking to get into CNC and want to do it a little cheaper to start, you can live without PDB and ATC quite fine. That said, NOBODY regrets owning either of them, as you can see in this thread

Now, I would love a screw compressor. I've just about had it with my noisy POS with extra heatsinks welded all over it that runs 75% of the time while I'm air cooling.

[Don Clement]

Now, I would love a screw compressor. I've just about had it with my noisy POS with extra heatsinks welded all over it that runs 75% of the time while I'm air cooling.

I bought an 80 gal 5 hp two-stage piston compressor to run my Vortec 610 cold air gun https://www.vortec.com/c-9-cold-air-guns.aspx . Very noisy. My solution was to move the air compressor 20ft from my shop out into a 10' x 12' Tuff Shed. I ran 3/4" copper air lines and 220V electrical underground. Now the compressor is much quieter in the enclosed Tuff Shed away from my shop and home. Also I installed a 220V sub panel so the shed has both 120V and 220V power.

Don Clement

[GJeff]

That's a lot of work but would save some money. I'm not too impressed by the CFMs of the screw compressors, so that'd probably be the way I go too if I get around to it. I'd want to make sure to have it setup to dump water automatically with each cycle so I don't have to walk to the shed and to it each day.

[GJeff]

You wouldn't happen to have tried out any of vortec's personal air conditioner vests would you?

[cobrakai]

I use the PDB with ATC and have used up to 1/2" tooling and pretty aggressive chipload. If you follow the directions to make sure the tools are clean and the PDB is tight it will not pull out. It's a great easy system to use. Just make sure you have the latest collet. They changed it.

[Don Clement]

You wouldn't happen to have tried out any of vortec's personal air conditioner vests would you?

Not really. I live in the mountains and doesn't get that hot although I just installed a Mini-split systems air conditioner/heat pump for the 5-10 days a year that it gets up in the high '80s.
BTW I would think a thermoelectric device (peltier ) might work for a cooling vest because one doesn't need an air compressor.

Don Clement