[HawkJET]

how much effect does a digital stepper control have vs the older chopping type?

They are both chopper drives. The difference is likely the 'front' end rather than the power section. I would use the older (less expensive) drivers, I doubt you'll ever notice the difference. I am using Compumotor drivers myself. They were made in the early '90s. Also, the stock stepper motors are not well suited to microstepping (since microstepping didn't exist when they were made). Yes you can drive them with a microstepping driver (as I am also), but the microsteps are very non-linear and don't effectively produce much better than half steps (which is why I'm upgrading). They work just fine but effective microstepping should provide better surface finish while contouring.

The biggest reason to use KL- drives vs. Gecko is they run off line voltage (I believe) so you don't need to mess with the transformers like you would with Geckos. Plus the higher voltage will get you better performance. This is my biggest reason I'm using Compumotors.

I would think you could find a way to get everything into the single enclosure. When my machine is ultimately completed, the rear enclosure will be replaced with one that is 1/4 the volume of the original.

Do you have a rough idea of when you plan of swapping your motors? I've seen them on ebay, but I'd rather not mess with ebay and support a forum member if I can.

Sorry, I really don't. Anyway, you'd have to fight with 1875 since he has also expressed interest in them. I do appreciate your not wanting to go to eBay.

I'll send a PM re. manuals

Is there a way to remove the table without taking the ball screw apart?

The screw itself on the X axis does not rotate - the ball nut does. TarHealTom has a thread that shows him removing the table of his BOSS5. I believe it is just a matter of removing a few bolts.

[sdmuleman]

This is the quote from the email:

"The 9082 is a chopper type driver, like the old kind, the 8070D is a digital driver, it has better performance. It can microstep at very high resolution. You are going to see the motor running smoother. It is like comparing aG201 and a G203 from geckodrive"

This is from Arturo Duncan at CNC4PC.com.

There's only one one of the KL drivers with a self container power supply - KL-11080. They look nice, but are about $50/ea more than the 9082 & 8070. Not much more than a G-203V though. I may use those one the machine I do for myself depending on how I like the performance of the machines with the stock power supply and gecko or Kl drivers. Also since I got the transformer engineering figured out it's going to be very easy to use the stock power supply setup, so saving the money is worth it.

Just from first impression the box is going to be tight, but we'll see. A large amount of space is going to be eaten up by the 2 transformers especially since I plan to try and leave them in the stock locations to save some work. I'd also rather not have everything so tightly crammed in that it's a pain to work or or creates airflow/heat problems.

On another note - would you put the box on the side or rear of the machine? The rear seems to be a better idea for space, table access, ease of use, etc as well as being further from the chips/oil/coolant, but with many hobbyist shops, (like mine) it's likely that the mill will be up against a wall, so with the box on the back you'd have to move the mill around to get access to the electronics which seems like a suboptimal idea.

Probably if you don't have the motors for sale in the near future I'll just grab some off ebay - I'm hoping to get these done and sold before too awful long... at least that's the plan.

[HawkJET]

This is the quote from the email:

"The 9082 is a chopper type driver, like the old kind, the 8070D is a digital driver, it has better performance. It can microstep at very high resolution. You are going to see the motor running smoother. It is like comparing aG201 and a G203 from geckodrive"

This is a generic response and doesn't take into account that you are using the old motors. You will NOT notice ANY difference in smoothness unless you change motors too. And yes, they are both chopper drives - they have to be to microstep. "Chopper" refers to the fact that the power is PWMed to control current.

Just from first impression the box is going to be tight, but we'll see. A large amount of space is going to be eaten up by the 2 transformers especially since I plan to try and leave them in the stock locations to save some work. I'd also rather not have everything so tightly crammed in that it's a pain to work or or creates airflow/heat problems.

Understood. I'm not using the PC case and am mounting the motherboard, power supply, and B.O.B. in the enclosure. This saves a lot of space.

the mill will be up against a wall, so with the box on the back you'd have to move the mill around to get access to the electronics which seems like a suboptimal idea.

I agree... suboptimal! Put it on the side for access. Also, you'll have a place to mount the controller head. I'm putting mine on the rear, but my enclosure is much smaller and I have an 1100 sq. ft. shop with room behind the mill.

Probably if you don't have the motors for sale in the near future...

Since the stock motors were likely special ordered to Bridgeport specs, new off-the-shelf steppers have different shaft length and diameter. So I have to make adapters. Doing this in a robust manner is non trivial so that is why I don't have a 'hard' schedule. One of the things slowing me is that I need to finish my grinder room and set up my surface grinder so can use it in the fabrication of the adapters. I need to tape the drywall, add trim and a door, then paint....

If you're curious, you can see what I'm doing at Cris Hawkins.com and click on 'Shop' on the left.

[sdmuleman]

Okay, thanks. My gut feeling was that super high tech stuff was probably wasted on these, but good to have another opinion.

Mounting the PC parts directly is a good idea to save space. I'm not entirely comfortable mount all those sensitive bits out in the open like that, but not for any good reason. Worth considering at least.

[HawkJET]

I'm not entirely comfortable mount all those sensitive bits out in the open like that, but not for any good reason. Worth considering at least.

A buddy of mine has a Bridgeport EZ-Trak that uses a DOS based PC. The motherboard is mounted in the enclosure as mentioned....

[1875]

After I get my head back together, I'll be considering taking off the table too. I was planning on using the smaller original cabinet that was on the back, and mounting it on the side. My desktop will not quite fit well in there, so I'm thinking of mounting the PC components inside the cabinet or fabricating another cabinet to house the power supply and gecko drivers, and mounting both on a shelf attached to the side.

Do not use a laptop for Mach3. If you find a hand controller, you may need two parallel ports (my hand controller is parallel interface, but I have not tried to use it yet)

HawkJET steppers, My Z-axis motor was seized and I had a spare X/Y motor (different housing). I've not tested them much, but all my motors run. The spare, when testing on the bench, produced a varying sound as it rotated, part of the rotation was louder than the opposite side. I was just interested in having a spare if I needed one.

HawkJET, browsed your site and viewed the shop. Sorry, but I don't like it. It's much too far for me to drive. The machines are far too shiny, and who needs TWO CNCs and a manual mill anyway (plus TWO lathes)? Allright, I love two of everything too.. I get to share a 2-car garage for my "shop" or I would have bought that extra lathe as well.

[HawkJET]

The spare, when testing on the bench, produced a varying sound as it rotated, part of the rotation was louder than the opposite side. I was just interested in having a spare if I needed one.

This is not a good sign. The rotor may be rubbing on the stator or there is 'crap in the gap' between the rotor and stator. I used to work at Compumotor and hand built many motors in a development project. There is only a few thousandths of an inch between the rotor and stator. You really can't clean them out either. If you remove the rotor, it partially demagnetizes it.

It may function okay, as is, but I understand your desire for a spare.

HawkJET, browsed your site and viewed the shop. Sorry, but I don't like it. It's much too far for me to drive.

Too bad, it would be nice to have some company now and then!

The machines are far too shiny, and who needs TWO CNCs and a manual mill anyway (plus TWO lathes)?

The photos make the machines look shinier than they really are (believe me). Also, they were taken before I used them in my new location (I recently moved from the SF bay area), so the shop hadn't gotten dirty yet. I originally had only one lathe and one CNC, but my uncle and grandfather passed away and I inherited the BOSS3 from my uncle and the Logan lathe from my grandfather. I have the room so I'll keep them. I also got a manual Bridgeport from my uncle but I didn't have the room in my other shop at the time, and sold it.

[sdmuleman]

Removing the table is easy - loosen the gib, pull the nut & washer off the end of the ball screw and it slides right off. Just need to support it - sucker is heavy!

Looks like I'm going to need to replace all the oil metering units - this is what I've been able to find as the correct configuration - do ya'll agree?
X-axis (4) #1
Y-Axis (2) #0
X/Y ballnut (2) #1
Knee ways (2) #3/0
Spindle/Z ballscrew (1) #0

The drive belt part numbers for reference are:
Z-300H100
Y-240H100
X-210H100

[1875]

Why do you feel the metering units need to be replaced?

[sdmuleman]

Can't get more than a tiny drop out of any of them. The machines sat for a significant length of time and from what I've read the metering units gum up pretty easily when they sit for any length of time and there's no way to clean them. Since I don't have any known good ones here to compare to I can't for sure these are not working right, but they sure don't seem to flow anything.

[1875]

OK, the table slides off the right side? That will be my next conquest after getting my head back on, which is still coming into more pieces...

I hope the meters can be cleaned. I'm not sure what is in them, but I was sort of expecting small orifice metering, like fuel jets. How were you testing them?

[sdmuleman]

Yep. Remove the 1/2" nut on the end of the ballscrew, tie the spring cover back, loosen/remove the gib (I removed it to make sure nothing got bound up and/or damaged as it comes off) and then just slide it off. Thing is over 300 lb though, so you'll need a hoist or such.

The meters are surprisingly complex internally - it's an orifice, yes, but also has a built in check valve and a filter screen on the inlet side. The check valve part prevent you from backflushing, and the screen makes it pretty much impossible to get anywhere from that side either. Pretty much everything I saw is that once they get gummed up they're done and you need to just replace them. They're not too expensive ($12 or so ea) though it does add up in a hurry.

I was testing them by hooking them up to the oil pump on the bench and then pulling the manual lever and seeing what came out. None of mine flowed more than a very small drop which seems too little to me. I've got new ones on order, going to do the same test with them to get a better idea what they're supposed to flow.

[keebler303]

My old ones were soaked in carb cleaner for a couple days, ultrasonic cleaner, everything. After all that, they still did not flow at all even with 100psi compressed air so I junked them and bought new. I seem to remember mine had a felt type of filter thing in them and they were completely crusted over with crap that could not be removed.

[sdmuleman]

Thought you guy might like this - fabricated mounting bracket for the stepper controllers. These are KL9082s which have a built in heatsink, but it seems wise to provide airflow over the heatsink - hence the somewhat complicated ugly bracket setup. Built up out of pieces from the old logic power supply housing. Aside from some ugly welds it went together pretty nicely - about 2 hours or so of work.

[1875]

That outta do it!

[Tkamsker]

Ugly Yes but it seems to work ..

Gesendet von meinem SM-N9005 mit Tapatalk

[sdmuleman]

How accurate are the hourmeters on these? If I'm reading it right (length of the darkened section) the machine has ~500 hrs on it which seems ridiculously low for this old of a machine.... With tractors and the like a very low reading usually just means the meter is broke or replaced but it seems harder with the setup these use.

Also, do you guys use any of the manual controls, ie spindle start stop, coolant,etc, or do you just run it all through the computer? With the VFD I can do either or both (I think). It makes sense to have the computer be able to control it so that way you can have it automatically shut off when it's done, but there's something that just seem awkward about not have a real start/stop switch...

[Shefron]

2) I contacted Brent at Hubbard CNC and he suggested using a simple BOB that he sells for $30.... will i regret using this? Other BOBs I've seen used (PDMX, etc) are closer to $150 and up... Does the more expensive BOB get me anything? I don't want to cause myself a bunch of headache down the road just to save a few bucks....


Thanks!

Not sure if you've purchased your BOB yet but I would look at what you want the machine to do. The PDMX BOB would allow for expanded I/O if you ever get carried away and want to have a control panel added to the setup, Lube pump turn on automatically, Coolant pump. The simple BOB's run out of I/O that can be used while PDMX allows for expansions. With Mach3, a USB handheld pendant can be added. I know having a full control panel added to my setup has helped with controlling RPM, Feedrate, Jog increments, MPG.

[hdokes]

sdmuleman,

Which machine do you have that has an hour meter on it. I have not seen one on any BOSS machine. I apparently am not looking in the right places but I have been through one end to the other on my Series II CNC BOSS 6 machine and I have found no hour meter anywhere. I have an early build of the Series II CNC Rigid Ram, serial number '2 CNC 640', and two things I would sure like to find out about it are one... the year it was made and two, how much time is on it. It was owned by the Navy and was in moth balls for years is what I'm told but I would still like to be able to garner that information. An hour metere might help if it is somehow integrated into the controls. I have been successful at hooking up my laptop to it and can communicate via the serial port but am not aware of any command that might return that kind of information either.

[sdmuleman]

At least the Boss 4's have it... not sure the 3 does. It's hard to find though - not a traditional meter type unit, but rather a small white rectangle with a small silver tube in the center which progressively turns black with use. It's in the bottom of one of the cabinets, I think the power one. I'm not sure how accurate they are though.....

If you pull the cover off the stepper motors there's a date on manufacture printed in there under some of the wires, at least there is on mine. Might help. I think mine were around 1979.

Got the machine working to the point of being able to do a test cut last night.... once I got the spindle turning the right way (end mills don't seem to work too well turning backwards for some odd reason....) it worked pretty well. Nothing like watching that table zip around and praying you didn't mess anything up in the settings...