[menzzer37]

I've been quizzing Tormach on the lathe and still can't get a solid answer on a 5C collet closer. I would be looking for something that was pneumatically actuated so I could do automated bar pulling/feeding. Is there any info out yet on compatibility? They have mentioned a closer, and even shown this in videos, but I'm worried about availability. If there is an aftermarket option available, it may be worth buying it for the lathe out of the gate.

[MichaelHenry]

I think that Royal Products sells air-operated closers. They've been in the market for years and manufactured in the US.

Royal Products

BTW, they sell some collet chucks that look interesting at first glance - 1/16-in range per collet, but there's a price to pay for that range.

Mike

[BAMCNC.COM]

I have a Dunham and a Powerhold collet closer on my GT-27 lathes. I don't see why they wouldn't work, you just need 2 relays and some air solenoids

[MichaelHenry]

Another option might be an air-actuated chuck with soft jaws. Northfield is one manufacturer:

Precision Air Chucks On Northfield Precision Instrument Corp.

but they aren't cheap, maybe $2-3k or more new. I managed to find a used one for a few hundred. Just need a lathe to use it on.

Mike

[rob1934]

I just bought one of these for my 15L:

Atlas 5C Air Powered Collet Chucks/Fixtures - ROVI Products Inc. - Machine Tool Manufacturing

It's amazing! Leaves the spindle clear, and the dead length actuation is huge benefit. I'll be setting up a bar puller soon.

Well....as soon as I find the M codes for the closer output. Having to actuate it manually is driving me crazy!

Anybody know them?

[MichaelHenry]

Looks like a nice bit of kit as the UK folks say. How does the Tormach controller interface with the chuck?

[rob1934]

The Tormach has (2) 120V controlled outlets in the back of the control cabinet. One is for the coolant pump and one is for the collet closer. There's a button on the screen, for each, to toggle them on and off. There are also M codes for a program turn the coolant on and off. I haven't found the M codes to have the program turn on and off the collet closure outlet, yet. I've sent Tormach an email asking, but haven't heard from them. I may use the outlet for the coolant to control the chuck for now. But I know I'll need coolant in the future, so that's just a short term solution. I'm currently running Delrin parts and I'll be setting up a bar puller/gang tooling this week. I'm not standing there for 500 parts!

I mounted a 120V pneumatic valve on the machine and ran the wire with a standard plug to the outlet. The hoses act as the anti-rotation as well. They were supplied with wound wire "spring" covers to keep the chips from melting or wearing the tubing. And I added an SMC brand FRL. Very simple.

I just finished a short run of 100 parts and did it manually. Had to anyway, as it was a 2nd op. I can say I'm very impressed with the chuck! The air fittings were too cheap and the threads didn't seal, and they were for 6MM tubing. New ones solved that.

[dammachines]

The Tormach has (2) 120V controlled outlets in the back of the control cabinet. One is for the coolant pump and one is for the collet closer. There's a button on the screen, for each, to toggle them on and off. There are also M codes for a program turn the coolant on and off. I haven't found the M codes to have the program turn on and off the collet closure outlet, yet. I've sent Tormach an email asking, but haven't heard from them.

Aren't M10/M11 the usual codes for chuck Close/Open control? I believe that's what my AhHa lathe controller uses.

Dave

[rob1934]

Yeah that's typical M code for several controls. But Tormach uses something else. Every time I have a minute, I try a few more. I'm past M100......

M8/9 are the coolant on and off.

Ah, Ok Don, Now I see what your doing. I wasn't understanding. I'll remember that when I'm making Delrin sleeves. Up to this point, I've only made them with a lever style closer on the manual lathe, and it's fussy. I'm already using that style of regulator on mine, for the current parts, I just adjust for good grip and a tad more. I've also yet to make this quantity of parts over 3/4" dia. and all the fixtures I have are 5C. Not to say it won't happen, and if it does, I'll change out the back plate to fit one of my other machines and get the 16c set up, If that's big enough.

About 1/3 of what I run are second ops, so the dead length was a feature I was looking for as well.

[MichaelHenry]

Yeah that's typical M code for several controls. But Tormach uses something else. Every time I have a minute, I try a few more. I'm past M100......

Have you seen this page on Tormach's site:

M-codes Machine Code Reference | Tormach LLC providers of personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items.

The section on user-defined M codes may be of interest. I haven't thought about it at all and have minimal programming experience, but could a custom M-code and associated macro be used to do what you want?

Mike

[Don Clement]

I have a Royal pneumatic 5C closer. My Royal closer uses a special D1-4 nosepiece as shown below. So no having to knock out a Morse 5 to 5C adapter every time I need to mount another chuck. The collets are removed from the nosepiece by first removing the 5C key using an Allen wrench then using a three pronged wrench rotating the collet from the front. For some unkown reason Royal does not have a through hole on this closer. I machined a through hole in the rear closer cover plate as shown below. The pneumatic closer has less vibration than the lever type. I also added quick disconnects on the air lines for quick removal of the closer.

Don C.

[rob1934]

Don,

I saw your closer and modifications on another thread. I decided on the Atlas because it also is a D1-4 mount, but the biggest reason for the Atlas is the dead length function. It already has the through hole, and quick disconnect hoses.

The price was pretty much the same. The Tormach is so new, I knew I'd never find a used closer. I'll doing a lot of production work, so I'm hopeful this will all pay off.

Rob

Attachment 259850

[tmarks11]

That is pretty wild. Expensive, but considering that a Bison 5c chuck with a D1-4 mount will run about $800, not unreasonable. Nice that it leaves your through hole unencumbered. Although the 5c chuck isn't going to max out the 1.4" through hole.

I was sitting there cranking on the doggone key on my Bison 5c yesterday thinking that I wish I had gone for a drawbar. on my manual mill I will have to hunt around for a bit I can chuck in a cordless screwdriver to speed up the process. It is a lot of hand cranking.

[rob1934]

tmarks11,

I took the leap. I know it will pay for itself. The Tormach manual lever closer is $1,000. The Royal is $2,600. I figured for a couple hundred more, might as well get something with production style features.

I've been making the parts on a South Bend with lever 5C closer and 6 position bed turret. I kinda knew what I wanted to get away from

Maybe I should have gone with the 16C size. Time will tell.

[ag53711]

We've added the lathe with turret option to the website today. Here is the link.

As for the pneumatic closer, we are still waiting on the arrival of a few components. Right now, the anticipated release will be sometime Q1 2015 if all continues to go as planned.

[Don Clement]

That is pretty wild. Expensive, but considering that a Bison 5c chuck with a D1-4 mount will run about $800, not unreasonable. Nice that it leaves your through hole unencumbered. Although the 5c chuck isn't going to max out the 1.4" through hole.

I was sitting there cranking on the doggone key on my Bison 5c yesterday thinking that I wish I had gone for a drawbar. on my manual mill I will have to hunt around for a bit I can chuck in a cordless screwdriver to speed up the process. It is a lot of hand cranking.

I have a Bison 5C chuck mounted on my 8" Tormach RT. See photo below. I use a Craftsman speed wrench Craftsman Universal Joint (3/8 Drive) angles in with a Harbor Fright 1/2" to 3/8" adapter (modified to 9mm) 3 Pc Impact Socket Adapter Set to quickly tighten or loosen the Bison 5C chuck.
Since the Tormach slant lathe has the ability to take a 5C adapter right in the spindle I don't see any advantage of using a D1-4 Bison 5C chuck on this lathe. Also the maximum through 5C collet is 1.063" so one couldn't use the full 1.4" through hole anyhow. Even a hollow drawbar has enough ID to accommodate a 1 1/16" through part.

One of the advantages for me in using the Royal pneumatic 5C closer is the ability to quickly and repeatably dial in the closing force using the differential air pressure regulator shown below. I used this feature for machining thin walled Turcite parts held in a 5C collet without distorting the part. Perhaps one could do the same thing with the Atlas pneumatic 5C closer.

Don C.

[ag53711]

In stock and shipping now.

[karloterrazas]

Don,

I saw your closer and modifications on another thread. I decided on the Atlas because it also is a D1-4 mount, but the biggest reason for the Atlas is the dead length function. It already has the through hole, and quick disconnect hoses.

The price was pretty much the same. The Tormach is so new, I knew I'd never find a used closer. I'll doing a lot of production work, so I'm hopeful this will all pay off.

Rob

Attachment 259850

Im planing to buy an atlas collet closer, how does yours work along this time?

[rob1934]

Im planing to buy an atlas collet closer, how does yours work along this time?

Works great! It’s on the lathe 90% of the time.

The only regret was not purchasing the 3J collet size. With 3J, one can go up a few more sizes to the spindle ID. Everything else I have has a 5C setup, so I went with that size. So now I’m limited to 1” bar feed.

[maker of things]

Im planing to buy an atlas collet closer, how does yours work along this time?

Is there a reason you don't want the Dunham system Tormach sells? Everything is already made to fit the machine and it comes with the interface needed. Just curious. FWIW Tormach now sells the EZ puller with a stem to fit the round tool holders if you have a turret.