[tlharris]

I'm not a big ranter. Really.
Every time BobCAD comes out with a new release, though, I find myself going through similar frustrations - I really can't believe that these people are still in business with the strongarm, disrespectful.... no, outright over-the-line RUDE sales tactics they use. Last week, they hit me hard, and I

The problem is, I really do like the product. I really did want to learn more about the upgrade, and I really did want to buy another year of service contract. How they could have transformed that into my current state of livid frustration is just amazing.
I really did think at one point that is was time to go back to my software development past, and start a company of NICE people who write great CAD/CAM software, just to go head-to-head with BobCAD. I really wanted to call Larry Pendleton personally and let him know how offended I was, but then thought 'He *must* be aware of how his people treat customers..... it must start with him.'

At any rate.... this is just a heads-up for people considering buying into the product. I'll try to stop ranting and give you the cleanest version I can.
I, like most of us, thought I did my homework when I originally bought in (V23). I felt like BobCAD was the right price point, with a great feature set, pretty good performance. I only have 1 seat. Sales was a little heavy-handed... .hounding me as I worked through the evaluation process, but eventually they did come up with some pricing that I felt met my needs, and I bought Pro, with BobArt.

I never did get a post that truly worked well with my machine (Techno Router), but one that worked close enough. I need to use a couple of minor workarounds when drilling patterns, but it's not that big a deal. I never really wanted to deal with BC support enough to get a real post set up. That's my fault, not theirs. On a couple of occasions, I've need support, and though there might have been a couple of frustrating phone calls in there, eventually I'd find my way to an upper-tier support person who was knowledgeable and friendly enough. Reasonably satisfied with the tech guys.

Now, when it comes to Sales.......
They used to just be annoying. Every version, though, they seem to take it to some new low. It's typically 'Hey, Todd, it's upgrade, time.... what do you think about upgrading for $xxxx?' Followed by 10-15 calls over the next weeks with lower and lower prices until the cost is something that I feel I can't refuse. I've upgraded every version, and never regretted it. (Well, OK, v24 was a little rugged) Generally, I like to stay current, but don't feel the need to be on the bleeding edge of new releases. I like to hear how everyone's beating it up, finding workarounds and adjusting workflows, and maybe an update or two is out. Then I gladly fork out the money. I've also invested in training, and upgraded my support every year.

This time, the sales guy calls a couple of weeks back, and I basically said 'Yes, I'm interested, but it's early yet. Let's talk soon' and he left me alone for a couple of weeks. Then I get a call on Monday, which I mistakenly took in the middle of a meeting, and explained to him that it was a bad week, I'm heading out of town to a conference, and I'd be in touch next week.
'No, make sure you get back to me by Friday' he says.
'Excuse me, I just said that I'm at a conference through Friday, I won't have a chance to talk to my Office Manager before then, and this isn't my highest priority right now.'
Friday, I'm on the exhibit floor in my booth, and he called FIVE times. I ignored him until 3pm, when I explained to him that it was a bad time, I was busy, and wanted to talk, but not until next week.
'So, you're telling me you're not the decision-maker? Who is? How can I get through to them?' he says.
'No, sir, I am the decision maker. I'm the President, and I already told you this is not my priority this week'.
'Well, fine, if you can't make a decision, then forget the offer I just gave you. I'll send you a new quote next week at the retail price. We can't hold these prices forever.'
'Excuse me, I CAN make a decision, I just DID, and it's what I've told you all week. You simply haven't been listening.'

So, he follows up with the following email:

Todd,
Since we couldn't make a decision today here's the new quote.
Kind Regards,
Tom at 877-262-2231 ext 128

PRICING
V25 Milling Professional 2-3 Axis- Website: $3,495
V25 Nesting- Website- $1,995
V25 Predator Editor- Website: $495
1 Year Support =$350
_____________________________________
New Quote: $3495

At which point I replied that I could only interpret his message to be 'We really don't want you as a customer one bit'. I would rather pay twice as much for a company that treats me like a human being. Unfortunately, I think I'll be paying at least that much. I just have very low tolerance for rudeness.... never mind from a customer-facing team. Unbelievable.

Having said that.... don't get me wrong.... I still believe in the product. It's not perfect, but it's great bang-for-the buck. In our design-build studio, we do all sorts of 3D carvings, use the Art module, machine acrylic, foam, wood, aluminum, wax.... you name it. Really wish I didn't have to give it up.
I'd also say that there is ONE good man on the outside (in addition to at least two good folks in tech support) trying to be BobCAD evangelist and also do damage control. That is, of course Al Depaulo. He shows humility and respect, doesn't badmouth other products, helps people non-stop. Unfortunately, Al, you're trying to do damage control for a rather large army. Don't know how you do it. If everyone at BC were half as considerate as you, the company would no doubt be 10x as successful.

[jrmach]

:tired::tired:Why are they trying to sell you V25 ? You said you always stay current.


V26 is what the salesman should be pushing.

[aldepoalo]

Harris,

I appreciate you bring this to my attention. It is not ok for customers to be treated this way. I would like to officially apologize for the way Tom has handled your account. You've been a good customer and we would like to keep it that way.

[SBC Cycle]

Just a quick note, no need for me to pile on. I was happy with the respect I got from the sales department from V24 - V25. When V25 came about I asked for time to demo, my new sales guy didn't call back until demo was over. I bought it promptly, maybe I even called him first I can't remember.

When V26 was released, (same sales guy) I made it clear "Look, you already know I'm not going to buy it until I demo it. I always get a call from you before my demo is even done downloading so please don't call until I demo the software". There were 15 calls that I know I dodged because I didn't have time and I didn't demo hoping that would deter him. 5 of those I am certain that the secretary and even the owner himself told him we were not interested. I hate to admit that if it wasn't for the poor results of the standard Simulation I wouldn't have taken his call at all. I took it to tell him to QUIT calling because I'm not happy with the product and I'm not buying it until Standard Simulation was sorted out. During the course of that discussion, we negotiated an upgrade to Pro Sim and V26.

Of course I'm glad I upgraded and it looks like there are some nice things in there I wasn't aware of previously (might have even upgraded a month ago). But that dude has definitely wore out his welcome here. If he calls me even once in the next 6 months I'm probably going to lose it.

I have previously said that I thought BCC was turning over a new leaf. I don't know what has happened but the same sales guy that was patient during my V25 purchase turned into a nightmare this past time around.

[The Engine Guy]

I have to say that the Sales person I have been dealing with this last few years has been very good, I only have to say OK, call or email me in 2 weeks, 3 weeks etc etc and that is what happens, spot on the day I get the call/email and because of that courtesy I take the call or answer the email, just a little good manners on each end of the communication whatever it may be I try to do my best from my end, not saying that I am always 100% but I do try

Regards
Rob
:rainfro: :rainfro: :rainfro:

[jrmach]

Huh,I guess I have been lucky all these years.Kenny must listen better

[aldepoalo]

It's not ok for your account to be handled in any way other than with the highest level of respect! If you receive a call from a salesman that is less that appropriate I want to know.

[tlharris]

Too funny, JR..... I didn't even catch that. The email was cut & pasted here. I've been running V25 since it came out.... and now they're trying to sell me V25 again! The nerve!
No, seriously..... I'm sure it was just a typo on their part.

[tlharris]

Quick update....

First, I should say I'm not proud to have posted what I did this AM.... but yes, I was genuinely steamed.
Second.... I completely expected your response, Al - completely consistent with the positive, respectful attitude that you constantly show.... but customers shouldn't have to deal with these things in the first place.
Third, I did receive a very apologetic and sincere email from Kenny (Director of Sales) and I'll look forward to speaking with him soon.

So..... let's just say that maybe I was premature..... I've downloaded a couple of demo packages of other products, but maybe I won't install them just yet.

[tlharris]

I'm happy to say that I'm once again a satisfied BobCAD customer.

The short version is that :
- I had an issue with a salesperson who, in my opinion, was focused more on his own job pressure and lost sight of my needs as a customer.
- I vented about this experience here. Somebody (most likely Al, I expect) noticed and escalated it.
- My understanding is that multiple people, including Larry Pendleton, were made aware of this, and that it was unquestionably not in line with BobCAD's customer service and customer relations policies.
- Multiple BobCAD folks, including Kenny Stiles, jumped quickly to apologize and rectify the situation. The discussions and emails have been sincere and above and beyond the call. I am, frankly, convinced and relieved to know that BobCAD leadership is committed to taking care of customers. I definitely had lost all faith as of last week, but it has been restored.

I'll be sticking with BobCAD. I've always felt that the product was the best available.... but my opinion of the company behind it hasn't always been so stellar. That is definitely changing. Special thanks to Kenny, Autumn, Al (as always) and Larry (who I never dealt with directly, but obviously had input). I genuinely look forward to moving forward with BobCAD as a key part of our equation.

[BurrMan]

I'm happy to say that I'm once again a satisfied BobCAD customer..

That probably works out great for you too, not just BobCad..... In MANY respects

- My understanding is that multiple people, including Larry Pendleton, were made aware of this, and that it was unquestionably not in line with BobCAD's customer service and customer relations policies.
- Multiple BobCAD folks, including Kenny Stiles, jumped quickly to apologize and rectify the situation. The discussions and emails have been sincere and above and beyond the call. I am, frankly, convinced and relieved to know that BobCAD leadership is committed to taking care of customers.

This has ALWAYS been the case for us. It has never been apparent or projected any other way.

I definitely had lost all faith as of last week, but it has been restored.

This is the part where I would have railed on you............... As the leader of a company, you should know better.

I've seen you around along time tlharris. I hope things work out well for you.

[tlharris]

This is the part where I would have railed on you............... As the leader of a company, you should know better.

Fair enough, BurrMan. Not trying to sound defensive.... but I do understand mistakes. My team makes them from time to time, and we occasionally have to take steps to preserve customer relations. We're not proud of it, but we try to learn and not repeat mistakes. In my case - whether it's typical for other customers or not - I have dealt with multiple people in BC Sales who have exhibited similar behaviors. Maybe I've seen everybody on their worst day. Maybe I really am just a PITA customer. I don't think so. The loss in faith was really feeling that BC management must indeed tolerate or even encourage this kind of behavior. They've spent enough energy in the last couple of days to convince me that's not the case.

[BurrMan]

The loss in faith was really feeling that BC management must indeed tolerate or even encourage this kind of behavior. They've spent enough energy in the last couple of days to convince me that's not the case.

At least you've got the hairs to respond back with that not being the case.

I've taken a big hit for my attempts at pointing that out.

[aldepoalo]

I wanted to express our appreciation to Mr. Harris for taking the time out of his busy schedule to, not only post his frustration, but his follow up. I am appalled by the events of his frustration but I am also thankful for the feedback in order to improve our Company. Thank you Todd.


Regards,

Regards,

Kenny Stiles
Sales Executive
877-262-2231 ext. 117 | 727-442-3554 ext. 117

If you don't know who Kenny is, here is a video from him.

[Dstamp]

Most of us remember the solution more than the problem, glad it worked out.
I'm a very light user at the moment, but I have to say that Al Depaolo has to be the best company ambassador that BobCad could ask for.

DLS


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Elwood_Blues]

I regret even contacting Bobcad. I bought and used bobcad for a wire EDM around 2001 or so, and got sales calls for about 5 years afterwards despite my saying I sold the machine, sold the software, and had no interest in upgrading for a machine I no longer had.

I bought V26 at first release for a little CNC hobby lathe. I made it clear I wanted no further contact due to my past experience and Bobcad's reputation as I was simply a hobbyist without a lot of need, but still got a few phone calls. Well, last month I got an invoice stamped PAST DUE for a year's technical support I never wanted, never agreed to, and never used for more money than I bought the software for. I contacted customer support and unloaded on the poor customer service rep. I felt bad about how poorly I treated her, but made her agree I would never be contacted again for any reason. There is heavy handed, and underhanded, sales techniques and this was over the line.

I don't feel bad any more. I got a message on my phone from Jim Brown. How do I make it clear I DO NOT WANT TO BE CONTACTED FOR ANY REASON by Bobcad. These guys are like sharks with as little comprehension.

I am customer number 655738, Mike C.

[BurrMan]

Jake called. He wants his tie back.......

[SBC Cycle]

....Well, last month I got an invoice stamped PAST DUE for a year's technical support I never wanted, never agreed to, and never used for more money than I bought the software for. I contacted customer support and unloaded on the poor customer service rep. I felt bad about how poorly I treated her, but made her agree I would never be contacted again for any reason. There is heavy handed, and underhanded, sales techniques and this was over the line.

I can not believe this is still happening. A month ago we also receieved an invoice for BobCAD support that we neither asked for nor received. After this happened to us years ago from BobCAD (also getting the "Past Due" warnings) all correspondence with BCC is flagged for review - particularly "invoices". Thankfully our new-ish office girl sent it to me before paying it. We also contacted BobCAD to complain and made it clear that we thought this was a fraudulent practice.

We immediately received a call back from Autumn, the sales manager. Incredibly, she made another sales pitch (this time to the owner) for BobCAD's support plan, detailing our (my) numerous support requests during the initial product support period of 45 days. I keep all of my correspondence with BobCAD just for this reason. I forwarded all of my "support" requests to her:

11/18 - Bug in "Work Offset" dialog - Posts incorrect work offset
"This issue is currently in development. We discovered this previously and should be corrected in the first update for the software. We apologize for the inconvienence that this may cause you. We appreciate you taking the time to send in this issue that you have found."

11/20 - Bug in "Work Offset" dialog - Only able to select offsets 1-5
"I will submit this to development. I do see that it does not give the same number of options for work offsets in the machine setup page. Thank you for taking the time to forward this concern to us."

12/02 - Bug in opening V25 file, stepover changes by itself to 0.1000"
"I have submitted this issue to our Developmetn Department. They will be correcting it and it will be released on a future build. For now the only work-around i have is to be very careful when opening that old toolpath. Make the changes needed and then resave the part. "

12/03 - Bug in Advanced Rough toolpath with Build 1182 update - Feed locked at 59.0551
Personal call from Sean D in support. The update is pulled the same day.

12/16 - Predator License not active - Predator only opens in Demo mode
"The issue with the Predator being in Demo Mode is known and our development team is working on it. The fix, for now, is to install V24, when you run the Predator installer through V24 it will correct the issue. Here is a link to download the V24 software:

c0023486.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/BobCAD_V24_Release_Build_546.exe

Just copy and paste the link above into your internet browser. When it finishes downloading you can run it like a normal install and let it install the Predator Editor.

If it doesn't automatically install the Predator then go to "C:\BobCAD-CAM Data\BobCAD-CAM V24\System Files" and Double-Click "Predator CNC Editor 2005 for BobCAD". That will start the installation for the Predator. Then launch Predator from the Edit CNC button inside of V25, and see if it opens up in Demo Mode still. If everything worked correctly you see that the Demo mode issue is fixed.

Now you can go ahead and uninstall the V24 from your control panel and Predator should stay working correctly."

Every single one of them was about a bug - either previously know or even unknown to their own techs! After the shop owner made the suggestion that perhaps BobCAD should be paying us for support, it just got ugly from there.

This is fraud. If I sent them an invoice for 100 "Widgets" that they never ordered, never got, and were never manufactured in the first place I have no doubt that I would be facing an inquiry from the Attorney General.

AGAIN, I didn't rush to the forums to complain about it. I took action directly with BobCAD to resolve this issue. The fact that this is still ongoing says that I should probably escalate this complaint.

[Elwood_Blues]

I got an email from Amber stating my phone number was removed from the system, which is what I wanted in the first place. How hard was that? Contacting Bobcad directly did not work in the past for me.

There is no such thing as a Past Due bill in my house and I took it as a personal affront to get a letter like that.

I did not want to slam Bobcad in an open forum as I liked the software 12 years ago and I like it now. Everything I don't like about Bobcad is about their sales practices. I wrote a more detailed IM/email to the more prominent Company Rep in this forum yesterday, but as his account is not set up to receive IM/email from the site it vanished.

[LeakyRivit]

Yea...I just received an Past Due invoice for BobCAD support, that I never ordered. Kinda reminds me of the "Publisher Clearing House" scam. Kind of under handed IMHO.